RE: Help

RE: Help (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: Help (7/4/2012 8:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wildernessbitch lol something like that. I'm not sure if anybody here looks at the other side or not or even goes out into some communities. People are calling themselves Master all over the place and some other people call them that as well. To think that everyone called or calling themselves a master really has mastered much is silly imo. Yeaaahhh...I've been doing this for over 15 years now and yeah in "communities" people call themselves "Master" and others respond in kind, but when they do this shit, I sit there and laugh my ass off. I find it hilarious and if one of them asked me why I was laughing I told them why. Those types of people are usually the same people you will find at a dungeons and dragons game. I just roll my eyes and walk away after I stop laughing.

DarkSteven -> RE: Help (7/4/2012 8:24:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilcracker quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Hi there! Welcome to the collarme forums! 1. You are not a Master. A Master is someone who has considerable experience and recognition in the community. I've been with MANY who were not active in the community (because I am not active myself and abhor it) but they are still MASTERS. Sorry DS there is no hard fast rule in what defines a Master. There have probably been two zillion and one discussions on what defines a Master. Hmmm. I was too restrictive. I should have said that a Master is respected by others, in the community or not. Basically, a Master inspires respect in others.

lilcracker -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 3:37:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: lilcracker quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Hi there! Welcome to the collarme forums! 1. You are not a Master. A Master is someone who has considerable experience and recognition in the community. I've been with MANY who were not active in the community (because I am not active myself and abhor it) but they are still MASTERS. Sorry DS there is no hard fast rule in what defines a Master. There have probably been two zillion and one discussions on what defines a Master. Hmmm. I was too restrictive. I should have said that a Master is respected by others, in the community or not. Basically, a Master inspires respect in others. That works! Thank you.

Kana -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 8:37:39 AM)
Bah, If she calls him Master (and sincerely believes it-big condition), he is WTF am I to put criteria on it? I wouldn't be considered a master by at least 1/2 the folks here, the other 1/2 would consider me over-qualified. I could give a rats ass. As long as she calls me that and acts accordingly, then I'm a Master in my own relationship. Now, others can have their own opinions about it, but how they feel is really none of my business

SWDesertDom -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 10:54:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit [:D][:D][:D][:D] Soooooooo not worth a gold letter! You want to meet a real raging asshole, moderate a forum for a decade or so (and I only moderate a completely vanilla one, can't imagine this place) and then look in the mirror. At some point being a jackass to random posters loses all allure, but you are left with nothing else, and no other real options for dealing with the kiddos...

Lockit -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 12:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit [:D][:D][:D][:D] Soooooooo not worth a gold letter! You want to meet a real raging asshole, moderate a forum for a decade or so (and I only moderate a completely vanilla one, can't imagine this place) and then look in the mirror. At some point being a jackass to random posters loses all allure, but you are left with nothing else, and no other real options for dealing with the kiddos... I've moderated on a number of sites... vanilla and lifestyle, including a support site that I owned. I can still be an ass hole, but I find different ways of being one or dealing with people. I can look in a mirror, deal and still respect myself in the morning. [:D] I may have some egg or tomato on my face, but I am typically still smiling. I can't speak for anyone else though. I could be hated by some... still, I have no desire to limit what I say. When I must... it really sucks! [:D] I think I will live though... much to the dismay of a few or more.

SWDesertDom -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 12:22:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit quote: ORIGINAL: SWDesertDom quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit [:D][:D][:D][:D] Soooooooo not worth a gold letter! You want to meet a real raging asshole, moderate a forum for a decade or so (and I only moderate a completely vanilla one, can't imagine this place) and then look in the mirror. At some point being a jackass to random posters loses all allure, but you are left with nothing else, and no other real options for dealing with the kiddos... I've moderated on a number of sites... vanilla and lifestyle, including a support site that I owned. I can still be an ass hole, but I find different ways of being one or dealing with people. I can look in a mirror, deal and still respect myself in the morning. [:D] I may have some egg or tomato on my face, but I am typically still smiling. I can't speak for anyone else though. I could be hated by some... still, I have no desire to limit what I say. When I must... it really sucks! [:D] I think I will live though... much to the dismay of a few or more. I'm okay with who I see in the mirror every morning. It's just that who that is is someone who doesn't give 1/128th of a fig about why YOU (not you specifically, Lockit, I mean a random forum poster in need of moderation) think the rules don't apply to you. Or how you are going to go complain to the forum owner/post a whiny thread about how the mods hate you/have a temper tantrum/whatever... It takes about three seconds for me to get to the "hand out suspension" point. And the forum owner doesn't understand why I'm so "tolerant."

LadyPact -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 9:50:38 PM)
This thread reminds Me of the 'every kid gets a trophy' concept. That's the theory that, no matter what, as long as a player shows up to participate in a league, they get a trophy. The idea on that came in right about the time that people decided there shouldn't be winners and losers at a game because that might make the ones who didn't have the skills to score the higher points feel bad. They should feel just as much accomplishment as the ones who practiced their skills, played to the best of their ability, and accomplished their goal. After all, we can't hurt their fragile egos. Granted, the word "Master" is just a label, much like how we label winners or losers after a game. When the label doesn't mean anything, what compels them to become more than a beginner? To take their craft seriously, at least in the way they perceive the word? Frankly, because there are a bunch of young twatwaffles on the other side who don't know how to use the word properly doesn't mean the definition of the word has changed. It just means they are too ignorant to use it correctly.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 10:06:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Frankly, because there are a bunch of young twatwaffles on the other side who don't know how to use the word properly doesn't mean the definition of the word has changed. It just means they are too ignorant to use it correctly. This. ^^^^

JeffBC -> RE: Help (7/5/2012 11:13:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Frankly, because there are a bunch of young twatwaffles on the other side who don't know how to use the word properly doesn't mean the definition of the word has changed. It just means they are too ignorant to use it correctly. OK, I'll bite. I got no community. I got no credentials. I'd certainly hurt myself with a whip. The only thing I got going for me is my own personality and Carol's obedience as demonstration. So now what's the right word? Dom? Is that the less accredited version of master? I gotta go with Kana on this. Some girl looks up at some guy with nig round eyes and calls him "master" that's good enough for me. I'm sticking with master because I think master/slave has a catchy ring to it.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 3:49:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC OK, I'll bite. I got no community. I got no credentials. I'd certainly hurt myself with a whip. The only thing I got going for me is my own personality and Carol's obedience as demonstration. So now what's the right word? Dom? Is that the less accredited version of master? I gotta go with Kana on this. Some girl looks up at some guy with nig round eyes and calls him "master" that's good enough for me. I'm sticking with master because I think master/slave has a catchy ring to it. Jeff, if you're not a Master there's no hope for us. I also agree with Kana. If you have someone who calls you Master and means it, who are we to say otherwise? Now if you don't have that, never had that... perhaps not. Doesn't mean you won't become a Master when you find the right person.

LadyPact -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 5:02:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC OK, I'll bite. I got no community. I got no credentials. I'd certainly hurt myself with a whip. The only thing I got going for me is my own personality and Carol's obedience as demonstration. So now what's the right word? Dom? Is that the less accredited version of master? I gotta go with Kana on this. Some girl looks up at some guy with nig round eyes and calls him "master" that's good enough for me. I'm sticking with master because I think master/slave has a catchy ring to it. You and I have been around this block before. I'm not saying everyone has to use the word Master the way it's used in the leather community. I've got a post earlier in this thread that, by Gorean standards, I'm no Master. But wouldn't you think, that to be using the word correctly, you'd have to be mastering something or someone? Some kind of distinction between 'never done this before' and 'successfully led a long term dynamic/relationship'? Since you were kind enough to offer yourself and Carol for an example, let's do so in another manner. For the sake of discussion, let's say that when Carol brought the M/s idea to you, the two of you tried it out and decided after three months that it didn't really fit you after all. The marriage was still in tact, but for whatever reason, the M/s thing didn't really work out so well. Would you still be a Master then? If Carol had never brought the idea to you, does that change anything? How do you see the period of your marriage before the M/s was introduced and do you associate the word Master with that time? I'm actually a lot easier on this subject than I used to be, as long as somebody has got some kind of worthwhile definition of the word going on. Master of a slave in a long term M/s dynamic. Prior Master of a slave in a long term dynamic. Master of a skill. Master who has earned leather in the community. Master according to Gorean standards. In other words, something, ANYTHING, besides, "brand new, never done it before, but it sounded cool for a screen name" type of deal.

DarkSteven -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 7:25:55 AM)
Okay. I need to clarify. If someone considers himself a Master and everyone else considers him a dipshit, he's no Master in my eyes. If someone considers himself a Master and has a slave who considers himself a Master and everyone else considers him a dipshit, I'll hold my tongue. I've seen that movie before and know how it ends. The idea is that slapping a Master label on oneself by itself means nothing.

JeffBC -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 9:30:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact In other words, something, ANYTHING, besides, "brand new, never done it before, but it sounded cool for a screen name" type of deal. That almost makes sense to me. The problem there is I think back to a few years back when I decided to go this path to start with. I used the labels "master" and "slave" more as a statement of intent than an actual, on the ground reality. Clearly I did not master Carol on day one... or year one for that matter. There was this transitional period which stretched years before the sort of obedience I expect now was feasible or appropriate. Reasonably (in my mind at least) I was a new master trying to figure out what that meant. It's that transitional period that bothers me with this viewpoint which says "you gotta have experience". By implication there is some sort of progress tree by which one could measure one's progress. But I don't think any such path exists. I'm not at all convinced that M/s is just D/s but moreso. What label should a new person who wishes to go that path use? Where's the authoritative BDSM body which is defining these labels and establishing the test criteria? My response to all of this is very different. For me, I recognize that none of the BDSM labels mean much of anything. So if someone wants to call themselves a whatever that's perfectly fine with me. I see the label as decoration, nothing more. It's the descriptive paragraph which follows the label that means something to me. It's also what I would judge by... "Do this person's actions line up with the picture they have painted of themselves." But, for instance, I acknowledge that [sex] slave is a perfectly fine label even though I'd call that a bottom.

GreedyTop -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 9:40:56 AM)
GAH!! never mind, I reread and it all came out wrong. Upshot is: I think LadyP nailed it. And I think YOU, Jeff, have provern her right many times.

JeffBC -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 11:03:22 AM)
That's kind of correct all but the consent part. I'm still pretty fuzzy on that one. But yes, I certainly don't have any desire to push my "masterliness" onto anyone else. In fact, I don't even see D/s in that light at all. I don't need or want anyone to agree that I'm a "master". What I do care about is sometimes I exert my will over someone else. Sometimes that works and sometimes not. Whether I have some label is completely uninteresting to me. So for myself, I just try to describe myself using accurate wording and then let the chips fall where they may. But honestly, the OP didn't mislead either. He states right up front he is a "new master". Doesn't that pretty clearly paint the picture of someone who wishes to go down the M/s path who's new at it? Why is that causing such a stir? What label is someone in that position supposed to use? To me, "new master" seems rather direct and straight-forward. Personally, I'm going to guess that it's not the label itself which is causing this reaction. I'm guessing it's the "help me find a slave to serve me" bit. I never asked anything like that nor would I ever. Had the post instead read something like, "Hi. I'm a new master and I'm trying to learn what I can about it. Eventually I think I'd like to form a master/slave relationship. Does anyone have any suggestions for where to start?" There still would've been the mandatory label police but I suspect it would've been a lot lighter. GAH!! never mind, I reread and it all came out wrong. No it didn't. I read it just fine. :)

GreedyTop -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 11:40:52 AM)
LOL you didn't see what I had first written ;) reposting LadyP's stuff: quote: Master of a slave in a long term M/s dynamic. Prior Master of a slave in a long term dynamic. Master of a skill. Master who has earned leather in the community. Master according to Gorean standards. In other words, something, ANYTHING, besides, "brand new, never done it before, but it sounded cool for a screen name" type of deal. I think the first applies to you and Carol.

JeffBC -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 12:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop I think the first applies to you and Carol. chuckles assuming anyone thinks my dynamic is M/s. But yeah, I get the point and I'm fully well aware how LP, yourself, and a few others see me. But I was only using myself as a poster child for the "no external credentials" segment. And I think my question still stands... What, exactly, is someone who is interested in going the M/s path but is new at it supposed to call themselves? Why isn't "new master" perfectly descriptive? And while we're at it, the term "master" is pretty commonly used for the d-type whether or not it's M/s. Bottoms call their tops "master". Subs call their doms "master". It seems to be pretty ubiquitous... again leading to Kana's point.

wildernessbitch -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 12:03:36 PM)
quote: My response to all of this is very different. For me, I recognize that none of the BDSM labels mean much of anything. So if someone wants to call themselves a whatever that's perfectly fine with me. I see the label as decoration, nothing more. It's the descriptive paragraph which follows the label that means something to me. It's also what I would judge by... "Do this person's actions line up with the picture they have painted of themselves." But, for instance, I acknowledge that [sex] slave is a perfectly fine label even though I'd call that a bottom. This

GreedyTop -> RE: Help (7/6/2012 12:16:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop I think the first applies to you and Carol. chuckles assuming anyone thinks my dynamic is M/s. But yeah, I get the point and I'm fully well aware how LP, yourself, and a few others see me. But I was only using myself as a poster child for the "no external credentials" segment. And I think my question still stands... What, exactly, is someone who is interested in going the M/s path but is new at it supposed to call themselves? Why isn't "new master" perfectly descriptive? And while we're at it, the term "master" is pretty commonly used for the d-type whether or not it's M/s. Bottoms call their tops "master". Subs call their doms "master". It seems to be pretty ubiquitous... again leading to Kana's point. Fair enough, but even though I am not leatherfolk, like LadyP, I have been around enough recognized leatherfolk to twitch at the self-bestowed "master' title when it is attached to rank newbies (or even people who have been around a while, but have yet to have mastered ANYONE -oftentimes, not even themselves). so while I won't argue Kana's point (and yours in agreeing with him), I tend to lean more towards LadyPs statements. BTW: as a sub/bottom, I have yet to refer to ANYONE as master outside of a designated roleplay scene. I don't know anyone (sub or bottom) that has used the term Master otherwise. Between myself and those I personally know who have been around for a few years, generally, Sir has been used in scene. First name when not in scene). maybe that's just the folks I hang out with, online or off.

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