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RE: Honor? - 8/4/2012 9:39:11 PM

Silentrunner26

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Honor is the limits I put on myself for somethings and the unlimited things I will do for others . To hear a cry for help and to walk on by would destroy all honor I have in me .

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RE: Honor? - 8/5/2012 4:37:50 PM

DaddysGentleHand

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Honor, like integrity, is what you do and how you behave when no one is looking.

I live by that, and I have taught my kids to live by that too.

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RE: Honor? - 8/5/2012 4:53:30 PM

Missokyst

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that is my thought as well.
How I behave when no one is looking defines me.. to me. I am a weirdo who turns in lost cash, has inner dialogs of disgust with myself when I even have a random thought that taking something.. when it could be soooooo easy.
I have given up on trusting other people. I trust myself to handle the consequences of my actions and not depend on others to do the same.
As for respect, hmmm.. basically for me it means behaving in a way that I will never look back in gleeful anger. Respect is placing value on humanity. hmm.. well perhaps beyond humanity. And for those that I respect, I respect them because they share similar traits. I really L my X but there are things he does for which I have little respect. I think you can love someone and not respect them.
When it comes down to it I place more value on how I feel about me, respect, honor, and trust inclusive.
Anyone else has their own moral compass to live by.

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 8/5/2012 4:54:26 PM >

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Post #: 63

RE: Honor? - 8/5/2012 5:04:54 PM

Karnikula

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I have a basic respect for every single person, no matter how different they are to me. They all have their hardships they deal with, and they all try to make good choices (that or they're a mental case, in which case there's no "person" to respect).

My honor stems from my experience, but much more so from my continuous mental exploration of possible scenarios and which choice of action is the best to take as well as healthy regard for the human nature.
I do not trust people who draw their morals or honor from outer sources, claim to be moral/honorable because they're fan of some person, group or idea (including god).

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RE: Honor? - 8/5/2012 5:07:53 PM

sunshinemiss

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Hi Jeff -
I'm going to answer without looking at other people's responses...

This is off the top of my head (before coffee), so let's see how it goes.

Honor is about being true to oneself while seeing and respecting the other(s) around me with a long view. What can be honorable (apologizing for one's bad behavior for example) might not be in the long view. "Made direct amends to people we had harmed except when to do so would injure them or others," comes to mind (AA Big Book).

Being true to oneself - leaving a disastrous marriage despite having made a commitment to stay and having made an honest effort. Respecting others... There was a scene in Little House on the Prairie that I saw as a kid that left an impression. Charles Ingalls joined a tree felling contest or something like that. There was an older man who was in the contest. Charles didn't use the new axe. If he had, he would have won. He didn't throw the contest, but he didn't give himself an edge either. His behavior preserved the other man's dignity while he still did his best with his trusty old axe. Something about that rang true for me, and I've always tried to behave in that kind of manner. (Have I always succeeded? No. But it is in my mind and I do my best.)

Honor has something to do with personal responsibility and interdependence and trust (in oneself and the other). Perhaps I'll come back and write more later. For now... off to class!

Best,
sunshine

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RE: Honor? - 8/5/2012 5:13:49 PM

SeekerMA

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To me, honor means maintaining your integrity. Keeping promises, fulfilling obligations, dealing with responsibilities, etc. It means that you have an easy path, and you have a harder path, and you take the hard path because it is what's right.

That's the idealistic version of it anyway. In truth, I'm quite nihilistic, morally and otherwise, so while I think a person that is consistently dishonorable is fairly contemptible, one can do something dishonorable once or twice and still be justified due to his/her circumstances.

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RE: Honor? - 8/8/2012 7:05:49 PM

cloudboy

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I would argue that you cannot apply a universal standard to married people, and that one can have honorable and dishonorable reasons for having/engaging in an affair. Marriage is a flawed institution, and people usually try to manage it the best that they can.

In general I have noted that the divorced and single folks tend to have the strictest, most black-and-white views of marriage, whereas the long-term marrieds know that inflexibility and heavy judgments doom couples to strife and dissatisfaction.

There's also the fact that married people make great partners and don't demand from their partners a laundry list of requirements, commitments and other such baggage. This is especially true of marrieds operating with permission. Those operating on the sly offer a sense of adventure, breaking the rules, desperation, and taboo / forbidden love.

The notion that a married person must choose between life-long monogamy (possibly sexless, too) and divorce is utterly depressing -- and I find those who think this way dishonorable (projecting morality outward to sanctify one's own views.) I think of men who throw acid in face of the lovers / wives who sought attention elsewhere, jealous-controlling women who don't put out, or men married to their careers and golf partners.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/8/2012 7:07:40 PM >

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RE: Honor? - 8/8/2012 7:48:54 PM

FrostedFlake

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Honor is the practice of the unfounded and hysterical belief that other people have value independent of your own perception.

Of course, another person could easily define Honor (very) differently. And could practice it violently.

I want to thank Jeff for bringing this topic to the fore, and likewise thank the other posters who have assayed an attempt. It is now clear to me that I know less of Honor than I thought.

I think this is what is called 'progress'.

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RE: Honor? - 8/8/2012 10:32:14 PM

limpshorty

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What you say you will do, and what you actually do are the elements of honor. When they are the same, you have it. When they are different, you lost it. Getting it back is rather a difficult thing. Impossible, some say.

limpshorty

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RE: Honor? - 8/10/2012 7:23:02 AM

Darkfeather

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Honor, integrity, morals... these things are all quite personal and defined by the individual. But they are shaped by out environment and our experiences. If integrity and morals were nouns, then honor would be the verb, showing how we (individual) apply these views to our outlook. If all a person knew was lying and cheating, then to him, being honorable might be to act as such. Personally, I take most of my views and practices from the Bushido. An entire book devoted to art of honor

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RE: Honor? - 8/10/2012 8:39:12 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karnikula
My honor stems from my experience, but much more so from my continuous mental exploration of possible scenarios and which choice of action is the best to take as well as healthy regard for the human nature.
I do not trust people who draw their morals or honor from outer sources, claim to be moral/honorable because they're fan of some person, group or idea (including god).

Oh I so strongly agree with this (not that there's a right or wrong answer here). But for me, this answer makes sense. My sense of my own honor is tied to "being good". That, in turn, is tied to "doing good". In my mind one does good by actually improving the human condition of one or more people in some way. To me, I can measure a person's honor by how they decide between personal good and overall good.

This ties in neatly with what Darkfeather just said... If integrity and morals were nouns, then honor would be the verb. Integrity, I think is what makes for consistency of word and deed. Morals are the compass we are guided by. Honor, to me, might be said to be the measure of how effectively the integrity and morals combine to cause action.

Like you, I don't trust people who draw their notions of honor from external sources because... well... I mean seriously there's all of human history to look at. But more specifically, I'm not discussing obedience here I'm discussing honor. I mean... we all have outside influences which help us to form our opinions. That's a given. But in the end, I want someone's honor to be their own... a living, vital part of them. Something which they treasure. Not something a book gave to them and a book can take away again. You can always tell a person who earned their honor. They are the ones actually busy earning it and worrying hard about losing it again.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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