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RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:03:19 AM

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Ah...the avoidance "debate."

Flat out, it's a cry that government is responsible, that government should be solving this. The only difference is who should get the money.

What happened to "people should stand on their own feet and solve their problems"? It's a cry to cling to the past.

The times are different. It's an entrepreneur's world, and it comes with a learning curve. Time to get started.

Or wait for government to solve it for you.

My "Ah ha" came with the Reagan administration. Just as I realized his embrace of the Jerry Falwell circus was dangerous and insane, his economic programs ensured government would never be the solution. I had to learn to be a capitalist, and I had to learn to be a successful business person, and I choose to do it in ways that I would enjoy.

Isn't that what conservatives are always whining about?

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/17/2012 7:08:28 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:11:25 AM

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Obama - 'If you�ve got a business -- you didn�t build that. Somebody else made that happen'

I'll remind the eatery I'm going to tonight of that. Nope, wasn't your risk of your capital. Nope, wasn't your knowledge. Nope, you had nothing to do with it but get lucky.

Speaking at a campaign rally in Roanoke, Virginia on Friday night, Obama made the case that those who created businesses should be taxed at higher rates because they are fortunate and were helped to achieve success by the government and other people.

'There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me - because they want to give something back,' he said. 'They know they didn't - look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own.

'You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart.

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

We rise or fall together as one nation, and as one people, and that's the reason I am running as President because I still believe in that idea. You are not on your own, we are in this together.

How about the whole story....

"We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." -- Barack Hussein Obama, October 2008

Less than four years later the United States of America is less united than it has been since the Civil War, and not just racially.

How about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:12:02 AM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'd offer to come back and set you straight on that, Muse, but why waste the keystrokes when you'll just vanish, claim it was a joke, or suddenly discover that you have to get ready for the holidays?

You were smart, with a bit of class once. It's a pity. what you've become.

Have a nice day though.

Seems to me you are whistling past the Minneapolis Airport Bathroom here, you got lots of innuendo, impugnation, smears and the way some future event will happen, but not much in the way of actual fact or substance, logic or reason.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:26:59 AM

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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Why? Mitt can just bring up 8.2% unemployment, and that's happening right now.

Down from what?

From pretty damn bad, to unacceptable and stuck there?

If you're thinking of the Reagan rate, for his reelection, do keep in mind that it was a decling rate, not a stagnant one, and that Reagan was running on optimism, not fear and loathing.

Yes, that good ole American 'can do' optimism. The optimism that begot this country having the largest incarceration rate of any country, more than China or Russia, due to the 'optimism' inherent in mandatory minimum sentences and raising what were formerly misdemeanors to felony status ...

EVEN AS IMPORTING COCAINE INTO THE COUNTRY

The 'optimism' in striking down our enemies ...

EVEN AS WE EXPORTED GUNS TO THE COUNTRY THAT TOOK OVER AN AMERICAN EMBASSY AND HELD AMERICANS HOSTAGE FOR 444 DAYS

Yes, that same 'optimism' that allowed banks and developers to rook the country for many millions in the S&L fiasco, which was only a warm-up for what came later.

That same optimism that made so many people think that Enron was the place to invest, even as their traders outright killed elderly people in California by ordering shutdown of power plants in that state from their offices in Houston in the middle of record breaking summer heat. The same optimism that left Enron employees other than the traders with zero retirement funds that they had put their own cash into, now all gone, so sorry.

Thank you Jesus, for the great efficiency of the private sector, and keeping the meddling government out of all the above. Thank you Jesus, for finally selling this country down the river, with all that 'optimism.' Thank you Jesus, that the tax money-siphoning Koch Bros. are allowed free reign in expressing their optimism that cutting off tax money to the poor translates directly to more tax money to themselves.

Thank you Jesus, for getting this country out of the 'indulgent' '60s and into the 'optimism' of the '80s and beyond.

No turning back now!

Woo Hoo!

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/17/2012 7:36:41 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:30:54 AM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You think many of us arent in that same boat, Rich?

And can you honestly say Obama put you and those you spoke about in that position?

I know tons of us are in the same boat, Tazzy.

I also know the guy you are cheerleading for thinks, "the private sector is doing fine," and seems to be perfectly happy with the status quo, because it gives him "victims" he can try to squeeze another round of votes from.

I am not "cheering" him.. I am speaking out against the blatant lies and intentional misconceptions.

Romney isnt the answer either.. and it scares me how much worse off we will be under him.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 7:35:32 AM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

"We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." -- Barack Hussein Obama, October 2008

Less than four years later the United States of America is less united than it has been since the Civil War, and not just racially.

How about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

Its less united due to race more so than policy.

However, fundamentally, the US has been transformed.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RacerJim)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 8:10:46 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

So, an employee is "helping" an employer by the simple fact of accepting employment for compensation. I've owned and operated a small business and never!, not even once, did I have a prospective employee state that their desire was to help me by accepting employment. Actually, their desire was to provide for themselves and if anyone was offering anything that could be even remotely construed an offer of help it was me. But of course that was not what I was offering at all. My motivation was elsewhere. Most of them had a minimum they wished to be paid. Asked about employer health insurance. Paid vacation time too. Sounds more like what I, as an employer, could do for them. I accept that as they too have a powerful need to pay their bills and eat as I have for the same including the need to keep the business going which was not their concern. It's quite akin to using a garage to fix your car. You're not there to help them. You're there to get your damn car fixed and there will be a bill attached. The liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic. I swear, the liberal must think that people get ill so as to help a doctor's practice or a hospital, both being a business, somewhere. I mean, really, the doc could not conduct business without that massive help from their patients. And of course the doc got helped by their teachers. Didn't cost the doc much now, did it?

All those hours put in. And the residency!!! Lordy does that doc owe others for his success.

Then there are bank loans. That too is construed as help by the liberal. Need help and here come the banks. Oh!!! Should I mention their help comes at a price? So many got help from banks. Gives one such a warm fuzzy. But for so many it's 'help' they could never repay. AND THEY DIDN'T

The banks reneged on their offer of help and foreclosed. Oh, that's right. There was a contract. Again, the liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic.

Obama - 'If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen'

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 8:29:11 AM

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He's talking about infrastructure, you putz.

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:12:03 AM

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Joined: 3/28/2012
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Now that the Prez said the rich business owners were given use of roads, water companies, electric companies, infrastucture, etc. that allowed the rich to get rich. Who grabbed your ass and said you couldn't use the same improvements? In other words, why are YOU still poor?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:24:26 AM

Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Now that the Prez said the rich business owners were given use of roads, water companies, electric companies, infrastucture, etc. that allowed the rich to get rich. Who grabbed your ass and said you couldn't use the same improvements? In other words, why are YOU still poor?

Attachment (1)

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to papassion)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:32:00 AM

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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

It`s willful ignorance, Music.........this guy`s got that down well......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

He's talking about infrastructure, you putz.

Yup, the healthy business environment that our society has collectively worked for and payed for.........and that which without.......would make it impossible to do business in the first place.

Examples.....The police....to keep everything from from disappearing.....the government regulatory functions to watch the banks and other vital systems,the roads bridges and highways,airports and seaports,the firemen who keep it from burning up and EMTs who make life a little safer,consumer protection to keep the food supply safe,the CDC,Army Corp of Engineers and countless nameless faceless Americans who TOGETHER......make America one of the safest most secure places IN THE WORLD to do business in.

These elitist knuckle daggers think that they could exist and prosper in a vacuum and they are somehow above the rules us lowly "employees" have to live by.

These "capitalists" have it exactly backward tho.They are not the end all be all or the center of the universe and would be broke without OUR workforce/consumer market to exploit.

One big difference between con/lib mindsets is liberals believe that enterprise is there to serve society and conservatives believe it`s the other way around.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2012 9:34:22 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:42:15 AM

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How about "if you have a business you didn't build it" a slap in the face of every businessman in the country.

No one build's a business on their own.

Teacher's, families, friends, investors, business employees, construction crews, road crews, municipalities, energy companies, water companies, ect ect ect.

No man is an island.. even in business.

True but to even suggest that government regulation and higher taxes build business is patently absurd.
Those things donot build businesses, they arn't the ones that put their lives on hold to get it going and they arn't the ones who put their futures at stack to start the business. The people who do that are the ones whobuild businesses by, in part, taking advantage of allthose things that you mentioned. If it fails they are the one who pays the price, not the road crew, the teacher, or the water company.

Sure we all pay the price when a business fails. Potential jobs lost. Loss of GDP. We are all on the same boat. Its funny the people that have forgotten that.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:47:50 AM

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

So, an employee is "helping" an employer by the simple fact of accepting employment for compensation. I've owned and operated a small business and never!, not even once, did I have a prospective employee state that their desire was to help me by accepting employment. Actually, their desire was to provide for themselves and if anyone was offering anything that could be even remotely construed an offer of help it was me. But of course that was not what I was offering at all. My motivation was elsewhere. Most of them had a minimum they wished to be paid. Asked about employer health insurance. Paid vacation time too. Sounds more like what I, as an employer, could do for them. I accept that as they too have a powerful need to pay their bills and eat as I have for the same including the need to keep the business going which was not their concern. It's quite akin to using a garage to fix your car. You're not there to help them. You're there to get your damn car fixed and there will be a bill attached. The liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic. I swear, the liberal must think that people get ill so as to help a doctor's practice or a hospital, both being a business, somewhere. I mean, really, the doc could not conduct business without that massive help from their patients. And of course the doc got helped by their teachers. Didn't cost the doc much now, did it? All those hours put in. And the residency!!! Lordy does that doc owe others for his success.

Then there are bank loans. That too is construed as help by the liberal. Need help and here come the banks. Oh!!! Should I mention their help comes at a price? So many got help from banks. Gives one such a warm fuzzy. But for so many it's 'help' they could never repay. AND THEY DIDN'T The banks reneged on their offer of help and foreclosed. Oh, that's right. There was a contract. Again, the liberal thought process on this is massively idiotic.

Obama - 'If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen'

My god, you are mental. Do you not understand the free enterprise system? They weren't asking you for anything. They were offering their labor simply. In return they were simply wanting to make sure your offer matched the others they had in hand. If it matched fine.....if not I am sure they moved on.

You, as an employer, aren't doing anything. You are hoping and praying you can find qualified workers to help you make even more money. Not sure exactly why you think you deserve to be on a pedestal

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 9:56:20 AM

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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

It`s a two way street and neither can exist without the other.

Where did this asinine concept that businesses or rich own everything and everybody come from?

Oh that`s right........the grand oil party.........

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2012 9:57:20 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 10:08:45 AM

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Now that the Prez said the rich business owners were given use of roads, water companies, electric companies, infrastucture, etc. that allowed the rich to get rich. Who grabbed your ass and said you couldn't use the same improvements? In other words, why are YOU still poor?

I'm not poor. I have a country estate, orchards, vineyards, gardens, building a new home, enough saved to retire tomorrow, and running a business that generates income I don't even need. And I still free lance as a writer and a musician, all on top of "part time" work that pays my health insurance, puts money in my retirement fund continually and puts me in the top 25% of incomes in the U.S.

But that kind of "making assumptions" thinking is what keeps people poor.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/17/2012 10:10:45 AM >

(in reply to papassion)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 10:45:12 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

Now that the Prez said the rich business owners were given use of roads, water companies, electric companies, infrastucture, etc. that allowed the rich to get rich. Who grabbed your ass and said you couldn't use the same improvements? In other words, why are YOU still poor?

Because, one is poor due to solely being a victim.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to papassion)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 10:56:08 AM

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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How about "if you have a business you didn't build it" a slap in the face of every businessman in the country.

No one build's a business on their own.

Teacher's, families, friends, investors, business employees, construction crews, road crews, municipalities, energy companies, water companies, ect ect ect.

No man is an island.. even in business.

True but to even suggest that government regulation and higher taxes build business is patently absurd.
Those things donot build businesses, they arn't the ones that put their lives on hold to get it going and they arn't the ones who put their futures at stack to start the business. The people who do that are the ones whobuild businesses by, in part, taking advantage of allthose things that you mentioned. If it fails they are the one who pays the price, not the road crew, the teacher, or the water company.

Sure we all pay the price when a business fails. Potential jobs lost. Loss of GDP. We are all on the same boat. Its funny the people that have forgotten that.

And the roads and the traffic lights and the legal and patent and tort law and property rights system, etc. are there for all, winners, losers, people going to the store and not getting poisoned by their groceries, etc.

Those who fail at business blame their failure on the government and the unions (which the government has a long history of attacking, and the press {'liberal media'} still relentlessly attacks, but let's ignore that for sake of accommodating the inveterate whiners here). Those who succeed contribute to whichever party they feel had the most to do with their success. Never been different, as I'm sure you are aware.

What are we supposed to do? Lay off people who maintain the roads and shut down thousands of schools and reduce public transportation, just because a few banks went off their rocker?

Oh, wait ...

"If it fails they are the one who pays the price, not the road crew, the teacher, or the water company."

What was that you were saying there, BamaD?

Over 8,000 schools shut down, over 8 million jobs lost, mostly in non-banking industries (schools ain't banks, just so you know).

What was that you were saying there, BamaD?

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 11:04:39 AM

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Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

You f*ckwits wanted deregulation, you got it, now you can't stop whining about the consequences.

Please.

This country has been on a 30 year program towards third world status, at the bidding of those you f*ckwits elected to do the job.

But the talk radio and those asswipe "econ" blogs still remind you that we aren't quite there just yet.

I understand your pain, more than you could ever know.

Way ahead of you there.

Let's just pass out the AK47's to everybody and be honest about it.

Here's to chasing Mexico and Colunbia.

Cheers.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/17/2012 11:16:38 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 11:16:17 AM

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
My god, you are mental. Do you not understand the free enterprise system? They weren't asking you for anything. They were offering their labor simply. In return they were simply wanting to make sure your offer matched the others they had in hand. If it matched fine.....if not I am sure they moved on.

They moved on? They moved on???? But, BUT!!! I thought they were here to help me

bwahahahahaha

But, nooooo. They were after the best offer they could get. Hardly helping hands

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

RE: O and the Entrepreneur - 7/17/2012 11:19:51 AM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

If you can't make money off your employees, you don't deserve to be in whatever business. It's just cost, like any other deduction from revenue, simple accounting. You either can or can't provide something useful to others, price being some part of that.

Every company that thrives lives off their employees, as they do from their trucks or computers or whatever. It's just cost.

Most of us know that going in, either side of it, no big deal.

What's your point?

The government with its court system is supposed to do the job in preventing you from being ripped off by suppliers/vendors, and customers, hold people to their side of the contract, and prevent competitors from unfair practices that would harm your business, but ... should be 'hands off' regarding the employees, or those burdensome environmental laws that cut into your business, so you can't poison businesses or households downstream, right?

F*cking government.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/17/2012 11:42:58 AM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

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