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RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 11:49:13 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So the risk takers would still be successful in a country without any of that state funded schmutter like (say) Somalia, then?
Maybe the self righteously whiney apologists for the plutocracy should all bugger off over there, in that case. You won't have to pay taxes in a country with no government, after all, and the sweat of your brows will still make you rich without any of the social infrastructure that only wimpy progressive spongers need.


Do you pride yourself in your idiotic strawman bullshit arguments? Which comes first numbnuts, the tax or what the tax buys? How much social infrastructure was there in i.e. US ~1780? How about ~1600? What fucking infrastructure did George Westinghouse rely upon that allowed him to succeed, circa 1880? Ditto Henry Ford. How many of your vaunted socialist paradise workers were responsible for his ideas? Who exactly built Westinghouse since you leftists readily declare it was built by others? I want to fucking know.

Now, lets talk about risk takers in a different light. What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon? Interstate 80? Unleaded gas? How about the early colonists? I'm quite sure you'd have to agree that when the first settlers arrived there was a fully functioning government infrastructure, fire departments, police, EPA, public funded schools. and abortion clinics. Now if you take me seriously here you're more laughable than you've already exhibited. But essentially that's exactly what you're arguing -

So the risk takers would still be successful in a country without any of that state funded schmutter like (say) Somalia, then? ... a country with no government, after all, and the sweat of your brows will still make you rich without any of the social infrastructure that only wimpy progressive spongers need

They most certainly have been, except for when you liberal socialist parasites (spongers) get your greasy fingers involved.

You make a fool of yourself.


< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/19/2012 11:55:42 AM >


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 11:56:20 AM   
mnottertail


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I guess the trusts in the day used railroads from land robbed from the american people with the assistance of the government (cuz lincoln was making bucks on giving that away even before he became president) and then selling what they didnt use back to the american people they stole it from.

That, among other things via lining the pockets of republican politicians did much damage to this country and was the largest transfer of wealth in this nation.

Now George Westinghouse is an anomoly in those days of robber barons, and one anecdote does not provide anything in the way of credible proof of the reality.

Sorta like a Joe the Plumber deal.   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 11:59:08 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon?


And what did they promptly put in place?

Infrastructure. The Pony Express. Railroads. Marshals. Sheriffs. City Councils. State governments. Courts. Cavalry. Land claims. Mineral rights.

Because otherwise, Billy the Kid is an entrepreneur.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:08:42 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I guess the trusts in the day used railroads from land robbed from the american people with the assistance of the government (cuz lincoln was making bucks on giving that away even before he became president) and then selling what they didnt use back to the american people they stole it from.



Let's have some fun and rephrase

I guess the trusts in the day Progressives used railroads from land dollars robbed from the american people with the assistance of the government (cuz lincoln was making bucks on giving that away even before he became president) and then selling returning what they didnt use back to the american people they stole it from.

The Progressive Income Tax. A Plank in the Communist Manifesto.

You're no better than what you disdain. Matter of fact, you're just the same.



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:10:29 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon?


And what did they promptly put in place?

Infrastructure. The Pony Express. Railroads. Marshals. Sheriffs. City Councils. State governments. Courts. Cavalry. Land claims. Mineral rights.


You idiot. All of that was built on the backs of the risk takers. You know, the ones who had nothing to do with it.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:11:44 PM   
mnottertail


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Heres a rephrase for you .


That is the fucking stupidest piece of shitlicking you have done to date, but funny as hell.

You are now aligning Ibrahim Lincoln as the founder of the American Communist Party (as it still exists today with neo-cons, teabaggers and republicans in general). 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:25:10 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So the risk takers would still be successful in a country without any of that state funded schmutter like (say) Somalia, then?
Maybe the self righteously whiney apologists for the plutocracy should all bugger off over there, in that case. You won't have to pay taxes in a country with no government, after all, and the sweat of your brows will still make you rich without any of the social infrastructure that only wimpy progressive spongers need.


quote:

Do you pride yourself in your idiotic strawman bullshit arguments? Which comes first numbnuts, the tax or what the tax buys?


You obviously do not know.
The answer is what the tax buys.
Thus we have water bonds and the like.



quote:


How much social infrastructure was there in i.e. US ~1780?


Quite a bit. Perhaps you might enjoy reading the adams biography by david mc callum where in he describes the road system, the post sytem, the courts, the ports used by the colonist durring the revolution.
quote:



quote:

How about ~1600?





1603 would have been a better date because that was when the first slave was imported.

quote:

What fucking infrastructure did George Westinghouse rely upon that allowed him to succeed, circa 1880?


The revolutionary war was 1776-1783. Washington was long dead by 1880.
If you were to acquaint yourself with the particulars of the revolution you would not make such moronic statements.


quote:

Ditto Henry Ford.


If you knew anything about henry ford you would know that he started another car company before the ford...it was called cadillac

quote:


How many of your vaunted socialist paradise workers were responsible for his ideas?


perhaps you might want to compare and contrast the industrial development in the u.s vs. soviet russia...then you would know just how ignorant your posts really are.

quote:

Who exactly built Westinghouse


Perhaps you might tell us just how george got the railroads to use his new fangled product and how long it took and so forth.
quote:

since you leftists readily declare it was built by others? I want to fucking know.

I would like to fucking know where you heard such drivel. How about a cite where leftists claimed that westinghouse did not invent the air brake.

quote:

Now, lets talk about risk takers in a different light. What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon? Interstate 80? Unleaded gas? How about the early colonists? I'm quite sure you'd have to agree that when the first settlers arrived there was a fully functioning government infrastructure, fire departments, police, EPA, public funded schools. and abortion clinics.



You clearly have no understanding of the history of this country.

quote:

Now if you take me seriously here you're more laughable than you've already exhibited.


No one takes your moronic post seriously


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:32:34 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

What fucking infrastructure did George Westinghouse rely upon that allowed him to succeed, circa 1880?


The revolutionary war was 1776-1783. Washington was long dead by 1880.
If you were to acquaint yourself with the particulars of the revolution you would not make such moronic statements.











(I'd put you on ignore because you're so ignorant but, you're way to entertaining)

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/19/2012 12:41:29 PM >


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:54:23 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So the risk takers would still be successful in a country without any of that state funded schmutter like (say) Somalia, then?
Maybe the self righteously whiney apologists for the plutocracy should all bugger off over there, in that case. You won't have to pay taxes in a country with no government, after all, and the sweat of your brows will still make you rich without any of the social infrastructure that only wimpy progressive spongers need.


Do you pride yourself in your idiotic strawman bullshit arguments? Which comes first numbnuts, the tax or what the tax buys? How much social infrastructure was there in i.e. US ~1780? How about ~1600? What fucking infrastructure did George Westinghouse rely upon that allowed him to succeed, circa 1880? Ditto Henry Ford. How many of your vaunted socialist paradise workers were responsible for his ideas? Who exactly built Westinghouse since you leftists readily declare it was built by others? I want to fucking know.

Now, lets talk about risk takers in a different light. What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon? Interstate 80? Unleaded gas? How about the early colonists? I'm quite sure you'd have to agree that when the first settlers arrived there was a fully functioning government infrastructure, fire departments, police, EPA, public funded schools. and abortion clinics. Now if you take me seriously here you're more laughable than you've already exhibited. But essentially that's exactly what you're arguing -

So the risk takers would still be successful in a country without any of that state funded schmutter like (say) Somalia, then? ... a country with no government, after all, and the sweat of your brows will still make you rich without any of the social infrastructure that only wimpy progressive spongers need

They most certainly have been, except for when you liberal socialist parasites (spongers) get your greasy fingers involved.

You make a fool of yourself.



Let's talk about that, just how many of them were really just farmers at the time? Families had to be self-sufficient at the time, what they did depend on from the government: PROTECTION. Protection from the natives, protection from those who would rob and terrorize them. Most of the large landowners at the time either had land grants(FROM THE GOVERNMENT) or simply were squatters, who took claim to land they didn't own.The banned together to form governmets on a local and state level, with the ability to tax, for things like roads, law enforcement, legislative bodies, to maintain wht infrastructure there was. They weren't exactly company towns.
Care to discuss the use of Chinese labor by those who built the railroads? Slaves in the South, and how those lands were given to the Plantation owners. Let's discuss those who owned plantations in the South, and the planter class....keep going...you'll find that through the history of those who became quite wealthy at the time, inherited a great deal, expected protection from the governments, roads and streams to be open for transporting goods, even some regulation of markets.

Seems, your understanding might be incomplete, care for me to continue?



_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 12:58:32 PM   
SilverMark


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PS....who granted Westinghouse's patents? Who hired him to harness electricity at Niagra Falls? Who hired him to electrify the cities in the North East?....THE GOVERNMENT!....just thought I'd help you out!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:05:41 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

What fucking infrastructure did George Westinghouse rely upon that allowed him to succeed, circa 1880?


The revolutionary war was 1776-1783. Washington was long dead by 1880.
If you were to acquaint yourself with the particulars of the revolution you would not make such moronic statements.



Iam sorry I missread westinghouse for washington.
So to answer your question about infrastructure in 1880. You do know that his father was a machinist so all of the infrastructure to make mills and lathes (which are the result of infrastructure like mines,steel mills and machine tool manufacture.)
1880 was about the time he started messing around with electrical distribution and as any student of history can tell you there was quite a bit of infrastructure in the u.s. at that time. By 1880 he was already quite successful from his air brake invention.
Aside from this misreading of one word was there anything else that you feel qualified to refute from my original post?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:26:06 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Who hired him to harness electricity at Niagra Falls? Who hired him to electrify the cities in the North East?....THE GOVERNMENT!....just thought I'd help you out!


Really? I thought it was the Niagara Falls Power Company.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 7/19/2012 1:40:48 PM >


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:34:02 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Aside from this misreading of one word was there anything else that you feel qualified to refute from my original post?


Sure. Why not. Then I'll be done with you.

quote:

Thompsonx
The answer is what the tax buys.
Thus we have water bonds and the like.


You do know the difference between a bond and a tax, don't you?

(You're a waste of time.)

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:49:31 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Who hired him to harness electricity at Niagra Falls? Who hired him to electrify the cities in the North East?....THE GOVERNMENT!....just thought I'd help you out!


Really? I thought it was the Niagara Falls Power Company.



Perhaps you should go back and read the link you posted. You might want to pay close attention to this part.

The Free Niagara Movement had widespread popular appeal and in 1883 resulted in the creation of a state reservation around the falls, including Goat Island (see Figure 2). The only objection was from the owners of the water wheels and mills along the shore, whose property was appropriated by eminent domain, and who were compensated for their losses, though not to the extent that they claimed injury.

So to sumarize: The state was induced to confiscate private property and subsequently allowed a group of investors (their names are in your link)to take over this government property, which had been confiscated by the state, for their own personal gain.
Perhaps if you were to follow the money you will find out the status of that power company now? You might even find out how the families of those investors are still getting paid?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/19/2012 2:29:01 PM >

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:52:46 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Aside from this misreading of one word was there anything else that you feel qualified to refute from my original post?


Sure. Why not. Then I'll be done with you.

quote:

Thompsonx
The answer is what the tax buys.
Thus we have water bonds and the like.


You do know the difference between a bond and a tax, don't you?

(You're a waste of time.)



Is it your position that the debt service on a water bond is not a tax?
When my property tax bill comes each year there is the part with the two water bonds and how much it adds to my properaty tax bill...not that I pay it, but it is there.


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 1:58:47 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon?


And what did they promptly put in place?

Infrastructure. The Pony Express. Railroads. Marshals. Sheriffs. City Councils. State governments. Courts. Cavalry. Land claims. Mineral rights.


You idiot. All of that was built on the backs of the risk takers. You know, the ones who had nothing to do with it.

You idiot. To protect the gains of the risk takers.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 2:07:54 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Who hired him to harness electricity at Niagra Falls? Who hired him to electrify the cities in the North East?....THE GOVERNMENT!....just thought I'd help you out!


Really? I thought it was the Niagara Falls Power Company.



New York state government, and enlarged the original canal to provide hydraulic power for their gristmill and tannery. In 1853, the Niagara Falls Hydraulic Power and Mining Company was chartered, which eventually constructed the canals which would be used to generate electricity. In 1881, under the leadership of Jacob Schoellkopf, Niagara River's first hydroelectric generating station was built. The water fell 86 feet (26 m) and generated direct current electricity, which ran the machinery of local mills and lit up some of the village streets.
oops....Guess without the first canal, the second might not have been built.....

< Message edited by SilverMark -- 7/19/2012 2:10:49 PM >


_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 2:26:46 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

What infrastructure did the early west bound settlers depend upon?


And what did they promptly put in place?

Infrastructure. The Pony Express. Railroads. Marshals. Sheriffs. City Councils. State governments. Courts. Cavalry. Land claims. Mineral rights.


You idiot. All of that was built on the backs of the risk takers. You know, the ones who had nothing to do with it.

You idiot. To protect the gains of the risk takers.


And how was all that funded? Sheriff, city councils, state governments. courts ad nauseum. They didn't pay for themselves, now did they.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 2:31:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Well, its funny we are off on George Westinghouse, who was HELPED OUT by two partners who invested $5000  (so he had help, didnt do it on his own) to start the air brake company (and had a falling out with them, and rather fucked them, not buying them out) just moving to Andrew Carnaiges Pittsburgh to buy cheaper steel for more profit, as Andy manipulated stock and swindled other swindlers killed a few employees and got government assistance to do so...

But again, Georgie was a fairly fair haired boy, lets talk about the bulk of the self-made robber barons who licked it up at the government trough fast as they could rather than the one exception. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Bain of Obama - 7/19/2012 2:32:11 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

And how was all that funded? Sheriff, city councils, state governments. courts ad nauseum. They didn't pay for themselves, now did they.


How was it funded?
Are you sugesting that your so called "risk takers" paid for it?

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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