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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

there is absolutely no success if one is unarmed whether the venue is lit, dark, whatever.

And that is why 99%+ of people have no business ever touching a firearm much less carrying a loaded weapon in public.

If someone was close enough and level headed enough to draw and shoot the shooter without hitting anyone else or getting killed themselves they were close enough to tackle and bring down the shooter as well, which after all would have been the safer approach.

Success in these situations, defined as stopping the shooter, is never incumbent on people being armed.

Watch the vid I linked to.

Ok, lets get you post. Your response to there is absolutely no success if one is unarmed whether the venue is lit, dark, whatever is And that is why 99%+ of people have no business ever touching a firearm much less carrying a loaded weapon in public.

I do not see the link between what you quoted and what you state. You have two unrelated issues there. One does not follow from the other.

What is close enough? Would 12 feet do? Again, watch the vid. Her dad did just what you said should be done. He died.

Now Success in these situations, defined as stopping the shooter, is never incumbent on people being armed is partially correct. Defense is not incumbent on being armed, but being armed is way more preferable than not. Would you prefer rushing an armed man?

No link is in the post I responded to.

The link is firearms give people, dumb people, foolish bravery. Drawing down and shooting at the shooter in a dark chaotic theater with people trying to escape is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Anyone who thinks it would have been the right thing to do should permanently be prevented from ever touching a firearm.

Preferable in these situations is being level headed and brave. Consider for instance the case of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Church and Jim Adkisson. A man with a shotgun intent on killing everyone in the church was stopped by completely unarmed pacifists. Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

Not so sure about"the dumbest idea I've ever heard" part....wasn't it suggested after one of the school shootings that MORE guns on campus would lessen these events?

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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we should pass legislation that fines anyone who goes out in public and is caught without a fire arm on their person.

Then we can be the Wild West again. Or Afghanistan.

St Valentines day is so much better (see Al Capone)

Gangbanger v Gangbanger. What's so bad about dat? Culls out the bad guys.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Since you seem to have a little time, google the difference between anecdote and evidence. If that's your level of "proof," you've got a damn weak case. Try the perfectionist fallacy as well. We still have crime--so having police doesn't work, right? We have firemen, but we still have fires, so it doesn't work, right? We have schools, but we still have people who don't understand or practice the simplistic basic logic.

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Howard Steven Freidman writing for the Huffington Post cited America's higher homicide rates,incarceration rates,and gun ownership rates than other wealthy industrialized nations.Of course drawing any correlations between those statistics is downright un -American.
American exceptionalism indeed !

from wiki -
Howard Steven Friedman (born June 10, 1972) is a prominent American statistician, health economist, writer and artist currently employed at the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and as an adjunct Associate Professor at Columbia University [1]

Friedman is widely known for his role as a lead statistical modeler on a number of key United Nations projects and for his wide-ranging publications in the fields of statistics and health economics.

Agenda 21 (UN) anyone?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont give a shit what you expect of me.

Here have just had more shooting in one month than the rest of the year put together, Im sick of the death toll and guns.
More guns, more death is NOT the answer I dont care how you fucking spin it.
seeing the disregard for the victims is sickening.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Is that some kind of equivalence statement Bama?
Maybe you should remove yourself from the conversation and wallow with your gun loving brothers in the blood of the innocents.
Way to just ignore the dead and injured along with their families not to mention the thousands of other murder victims

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

Quick note about this -- relative to other major nations, we don't really have much in the way of gun control, and so it would be silly to say it's costing lives, with the ready availability of firearms in the U.S.

It will always be only a hypothetical here.

We should try some. It works elsewhere.

Yep Norway 60+ dead in one incident, England 22 grades schooler dead in one incedent , France over 20 dead in once incident Germany over 30 dead in one incident works great over there.

Since you seem to have a little time, google the difference between anecdote and evidence. If that's your level of "proof," you've got a damn weak case. Try the perfectionist fallacy as well. We still have crime--so having police doesn't work, right? We have firemen, but we still have fires, so it doesn't work, right? We have schools, but we still have people who don't understand or practice the simplistic basic logic.

Would gun control work? In other industrialized nations, it works very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

You're right! Lead does

One does what needs be done with tools at hand. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done. True. But they did need one thing. Their friend's life. A Colt .45 would have cost less.

Bullshit, coward.

The fact is a 12 gauge at point blank range would have killed/wounded all 5. Intead one man took the whole blast and enabled his 4 friends to save the rest of the people in the church.

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

You're right! Lead does

One does what needs be done with tools at hand. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done. True. But they did need one thing. Their friend's life. A Colt .45 would have cost less.

Bullshit, coward.

The fact is a 12 gauge at point blank range would have killed/wounded all 5. Intead one man took the whole blast and enabled his 4 friends to save the rest of the people in the church.

Wait one damn minute. You state a 12ga would have killed/wounded all five, at point blank range. If discharging the firearm would have gotten all 5, how in the hell did one take the whole blast and not the others?

The shot pattern of a 12ga is not wide at point blank range. Your knowledge of firearms is as woefully lacking as your reading ability.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

You're right! Lead does

One does what needs be done with tools at hand. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done. True. But they did need one thing. Their friend's life. A Colt .45 would have cost less.

Bullshit, coward.

The fact is a 12 gauge at point blank range would have killed/wounded all 5. Intead one man took the whole blast and enabled his 4 friends to save the rest of the people in the church.

Wait one damn minute. You state a 12ga would have killed/wounded all five, at point blank range. If discharging the firearm would have gotten all 5, how in the hell did one take the whole blast and not the others?

The shot pattern of a 12ga is not wide at point blank range. Your knowledge of firearms is as woefully lacking as your reading ability.

Bullshit.

There is a world of difference between a man standing right in front of the shotgun and that same man trying to get out of the way.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont give a shit what you expect of me.

Here have just had more shooting in one month than the rest of the year put together, Im sick of the death toll and guns.
More guns, more death is NOT the answer I dont care how you fucking spin it.
seeing the disregard for the victims is sickening.

Lucy I have as much regard for the dead as anyone. When I came on here I found people, particularly Music useing them to further his political agenda any death is tragic 12 at one time is horrific. Using it to push an agenda is cheap. That is what I saw when I came on line. It appeared that the thread had moved to the "guns are evil the shooter isn't" conversation which is what I responded to.

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Thanks, Anax. It's hard to keep track of all the tinfoil...

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When I came on here I found people, particularly Music useing them to further his political agenda

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Greg Mckendry stood between his friends and the gun and paid the ultimate price but it gave time for 4 of his friends to tackle and restrain the shooter. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done.

Bravery does not flow from the barrel of a gun.

You're right! Lead does

One does what needs be done with tools at hand. None of them needed a gun to do what had to be done. True. But they did need one thing. Their friend's life. A Colt .45 would have cost less.

Bullshit, coward.

The fact is a 12 gauge at point blank range would have killed/wounded all 5. Intead one man took the whole blast and enabled his 4 friends to save the rest of the people in the church.

Wait one damn minute. You state a 12ga would have killed/wounded all five, at point blank range. If discharging the firearm would have gotten all 5, how in the hell did one take the whole blast and not the others?

The shot pattern of a 12ga is not wide at point blank range. Your knowledge of firearms is as woefully lacking as your reading ability.

Bullshit.

There is a world of difference between a man standing right in front of the shotgun and that same man trying to get out of the way.

Do you even put any thought process into what you write?