RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 12:32:23 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Whe did discussing America's facination with guns,and the ensuing cost ,become a "political agenda"?

I believe I made that point in the now dead thread in 'Off Topic'. It became part of a political agenda many years ago, when the USA's pro-gun lobby argued so forcefully for their guns. Now, that lobby would like us all to accept that keeping their guns isn't part of any political agenda at all. I'd like to say to the gun-toters, sarcastically, 'Good luck with that one' - but, clearly, for many, that trick seems to have worked.

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 12:37:27 PM

Musicmystery

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Every so often the NRA calls asking for donations, and it's always the same approach, some scare tactic about what this will do to hunters (probably because I'm in a rural area). I'm surrounded by hunters, none of whom ever have any of the problems or concerns the NRA is trying to sell.

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Post #: 162

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 12:41:39 PM

LadyHibiscus

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'Safety' is the latest gambit, that if we don't protect ourselves, no one will. Certainly not the dwindling police forces.

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Post #: 163

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 12:45:34 PM

MissShey

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Recent figures...

Gun-related homicides per 100,000 population:

USA - 4.14
UK - 0.07

< Message edited by MissShey -- 7/21/2012 12:46:24 PM >

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Post #: 164

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 12:57:45 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Whe did discussing America's facination with guns,and the ensuing cost ,become a "political agenda"?

I believe I made that point in the now dead thread in 'Off Topic'. It became part of a political agenda many years ago, when the USA's pro-gun lobby argued so forcefully for their guns. Now, that lobby would like us all to accept that keeping their guns isn't part of any political agenda at all. I'd like to say to the gun-toters, sarcastically, 'Good luck with that one' - but, clearly, for many, that trick seems to have worked.

You certainly did Peon,and you did it quite well,the thread is now locked by the mods,apparently in reaction to "some posters" who were totally unable to separate the dead from the issue at hand.
Proud to have been one of those un-named posters.
How ridiculous is it to think that we can discuss so many victims without touching on the root cause

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RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 1:40:14 PM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissShey

Recent figures...

Gun-related homicides per 100,000 population:

USA - 4.14
UK - 0.07

Here's some data from US Census to 2008. And some more, same source.

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Post #: 166

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 1:42:37 PM

Musicmystery

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Hint -- U.S. Census in 2008 isn't "recent," nor a source of homicide incidence.

Also...the Census is done every ten years, not in 2008.

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Post #: 167

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 1:47:41 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

Quick note about this -- relative to other major nations, we don't really have much in the way of gun control, and so it would be silly to say it's costing lives, with the ready availability of firearms in the U.S.

It will always be only a hypothetical here.

We should try some. It works elsewhere.

Yep Norway 60+ dead in one incident, England 22 grades schooler dead in one incedent , France over 20 dead in once incident Germany over 30 dead in one incident works great over there.

It's certainly working better than it is in a country where you have an incident every two years, rather than maybe once a decade.

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Post #: 168

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 1:48:21 PM

Lucylastic

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There were 8,775 in the US in 2010 (300 million people.) Just with firearms, 12,996 murders
Knives 1,704
Blunt Objects 540
Personal(beating) 742
Poison11
Thrown out of window 3
Explosives 4
Fire 74
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl11.xls

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Post #: 169

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:11:08 PM

BamaD

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You fail to take into consideration the fact that we also have a higher crime rate with knives club and murder by automobile than they do. You have to take into account the sociatal differences. Gun ban in DC was declared a success by DC lawmakers because the percentage of murders by gun was cut in half. Problem was the muder rate by gun remained the same but the murder rate doubled. So according to DC the answer to Archie Bunkers famous question "would you be happier if they were thrown out of windows" is a resounding yes they would.

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Post #: 170

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:18:05 PM

Moonhead

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So the percentages for crimes involving guns in your country exactly matches the percentages in these pussified nanny states the rest of us live in where there's gun control, then?

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Post #: 171

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:20:07 PM

Lucylastic

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I think there is certainly a disconnect there Moon

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Post #: 172

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:21:21 PM

Moonhead

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Well what is he saying, then?

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Post #: 173

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:22:48 PM

Lucylastic

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I didnt mean you

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Post #: 174

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:39:17 PM

Moonhead

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Mea culpa.

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Post #: 175

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:50:19 PM

BamaD

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Read my post again at no point did I state that. Not sure what post you are responding too. I did at one point point out that your tight gun controls don't prevent these things and that the 4 worst mass shootings were not here but in Europe. I have also pointed out that while we have more gun crime we also have more non gun crime.

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Post #: 176

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 2:59:19 PM

Moonhead

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You also have a lot more spree killings involving guns than we do.
Can you cite an example of one in the UK that's happened since the gun control laws were tightened, come to that? You're going back twenty years to Dunblane, and if they'd tightened those up after the similar mess in Hungerford, then that one wouldn't have happened. There's certainly been nothing like it since.
And of course, neither of those incidents chalked up as big a body count as the idiot who was overfond of Heath Ledger did a couple of days back.

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Post #: 177

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 3:04:27 PM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hint -- U.S. Census in 2008 isn't "recent," nor a source of homicide incidence.

Also...the Census is done every ten years, not in 2008.

You're pathetic.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Post #: 178

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 3:07:01 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hint -- U.S. Census in 2008 isn't "recent," nor a source of homicide incidence.

Also...the Census is done every ten years, not in 2008.

You're pathetic.

Nice detailed, supported counterargument.

You said it best.

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Post #: 179

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? - 7/21/2012 3:10:08 PM

Yachtie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hint -- U.S. Census in 2008 isn't "recent," nor a source of homicide incidence.

Also...the Census is done every ten years, not in 2008.

You're pathetic.

Nice detailed, supported counterargument.

You said it best.

No homicide detail? Shows you could not be bother looking at the link data.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 180

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