RE: Submission is a gift!!!???

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RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:42:40 AM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

i think this phrase is true, which is probably going to get me my ass kicked to hell and back ;)

not in the way most people seem to be referring to it, but in that i am submissive. it's who i am. and to me, to give ownership of myself is a gift. some may see that as egotistical (i think someone has mentioned that); viewing it that way makes it seem to me as though people think one is supposed to devalue themselves or see their worth as low in order to get a dominant. in my opinion, though i DON'T view myself this way and am trying to get there, it's a GOOD thing for anyone to view their contribution to a relationship and their presence in someone's life as precious and special. if our self-worth is low, how can we be a healthy part of a relationship? high self-worth and self-confidence are usually attractive to people. it doesn't necessarily mean one is egotistical.

i also view dominance in the same way - as a gift. it's a gift exchange, of sorts. yes, the gifts can be returned - but for me, they would be returned, or at least asked for, not just taken away. while we're doing the gift analogy...we do gift exchanges all the time...why does this have to not apply?

now, someone mentioned submission being a responsibility (the dominant's). i used to think that was it. i'm beginning to learn the hard way that dominance is also a responsibility of the submissive's, in that dealing with personality, job, and life quirks and learning to be able to submit without taking certain things personally, has been a responsibility i've been learning the hard way over the past couple of months. though it's still a joy to me to submit, i have also had a lot to come to terms with in terms of learning how different people react in relationship situations (and dealing with people's ideas of relationship that are far different from my own at times). to me, being a submissive involves just as much responsibility for the dominant as being a dominant does for the submissive...it's just not in the same way, and not as discussed.

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i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 41

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:42:51 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Both submission and domination are gifts we give each other in power exchange. You are right, if I wasnt getting my needs met I wouldnt be there...

Love is also a gift... no one would deny this would they?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 42

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:44:32 AM

Ceyx

Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Sub or dom, there is an exchange. I used the word favours but one could use another term but in a relationship both parties give and take so its no more a gift than dominance but I wouldn't call it a gift because the sub (rightly) expects something back in return.

I agree wholeheartedly that submissives get as much out of their relationships as dominants do; if that weren't the case, it wouldn't be a stable relationship. Perhaps it's better to call dominance and submission an exchange of gifts, then, as has been suggested.

Ultimately it's a metaphor for human interaction, and while I'm happy using the phrases 'D/s relationship' or 'D/s dynamic' instead, I'm less enthusiastic about the alternative metaphors. Is submission part of a 'contract', then? It can be, but it sounds so cold and antiseptic. I understand the importance of 'negotiation,' but I can't hear the word without some idea that I'm engaged in a corporate merger or a peace treaty.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 43

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:46:21 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Love is also a gift... no one would deny this would they?

Love is an experience.

This experience may or may not be considered a blessing or gift.

The experience of love is also not analogous to the concept of a persons relationship orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 44

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:50:01 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Love is also a gift... no one would deny this would they?

I do not look at love as a gift. Love is a word that is used to define a powerful emotion. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course, this is just my view on the words itself.

In response to whether or not someone would deny love. Absolutly. It happens quite often in today's world.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 45

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 8:53:29 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Could it also be about combating the stereotype that Ds is abuse? If you give a gift, that's your choice, ideally, or it wouldn't be a gift.

I think it's just a pretty romantic flower to make subs feel all special and cool about themselves. It's a way to make it safe and special in their minds.

But I want to feel special too, damnit!

*laughing*

Had to be silly for a second or my head may explode.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 46

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:00:59 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Call me stupid, but I never even understood that saying, let alone tried figuring out whether it was right or wrong. Submission is a gift? What part of it? To who? Why? WHAAAA???

Actually, just call me stupid.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 47

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:03:45 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
But I want to feel special too, damnit!

*laughing*

Had to be silly for a second or my head may explode.

You got two men totally devoted to making your life as much of the dream as it can be...what will make you satisfied woman!!??

But in the interest of world peace and all, I'd be happy to come and grovel around you for a little bit.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 48

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:06:29 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
But I want to feel special too, damnit!

*laughing*

Had to be silly for a second or my head may explode.

You got two men totally devoted to making your life as much of the dream as it can be...what will make you satisfied woman!!??

But in the interest of world peace and all, I'd be happy to come and grovel around you for a little bit.

lol

I do have two good men.

Maybe I should start telling them that I'm their gift -- my authority is my gift to them. Nah, I think the gift thing still sounds silly to my ears.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 49

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:39:49 AM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
Call me stupid, but I never even understood that saying, let alone tried figuring out whether it was right or wrong. Submission is a gift? What part of it? To who? Why? WHAAAA???

I don't get it either, benji! Call me stupid as well

I had always dismissed this line as sanctimoneous drivel. But... uh, dum, duh.... does it mean?:

1. The person who is submissive has a special talent? Like a gifted artist?
or
2. The submissive's service is a bow wrapped present and he/she is doing the dominant a favor??

Aggghh! I'm sooo confused!

Help, please. Really.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 50

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:43:21 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

If I can't exchange it for a toaster, it's not a gift.

I never heard the phrase until the Internet and then, usually, in exchange for a velcro collar.

In a word.. 'submission is a gift' is poppycock. But then, I don't do that hearts and flowers thing either and I'm menopausal. Guess I'm not very romantic. I've seen too many people throw that 'gift' into the trash or take it back and 'gift' it to someone else two weeks later. Doesn't seem to have much value to me.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 51

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:52:40 AM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

If someone wants to call it a gift... it's a gift.... if one doesn't like the gift... they don't have to accept. It's all in how the individuals involved want to look at it. What isn't to one... is to another.. (damn I so get tired of reading this type of response).

Everyones gonna have different views on gifts.... rewards...submission... slavery... domination. Seeing others thoughts in this is kewl.. but to insist that submission IS NOT A GIFT... should only be one person's view on it... not stated like it's a solid fact.

I'm actually surprised at the many times others have flamed me for making same type of statments.... and then turn about and make same type of statements on here. (They know who they are...so don't everyone get panties in a wad here...lol)

So to give back what's been thrown at me.... Submission may or may not be a gift... it's for those involved in their own relationships to decide if it is to them or not.

Eidted to add.... used fast reply.. not intended to mean you Bita.... hugggs

< Message edited by BreakMeShakeMe -- 6/9/2006 9:53:36 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 52

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 10:25:44 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I agree breakmeshakeme .. to tell me what my experience is with giving my submission to another is a little bit like saying "Your experience is not valid". I am not here to be validated so I really do not care, but I find it odd that people would make blanket statements about how others feel. Love is the most treasured of gifts for me to receive or to give.. more precious than my submission. I guess in my original post I did not qualify that statement as only being "for me", but there is it...

To me love is not an emotion... it is a choice... I do not always "feel" loving towards those I love.,.. but I always have a choice to continue to show the love... and that goes for not just BDSM, but with my family and friends as well. That is my experience on plant Earth... the emotion of love passes for something much deeper, and it is much more a gift in my mind than someone projecting their emotional states on me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)

Post #: 53

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 10:46:05 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

If I can't exchange it for a toaster, it's not a gift.

I would like to think I could be traded in for at least a toaster, if not a commemorative plate.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 54

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 10:50:44 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I guess a gift is only a gift when its freely given without any expectation of anything in return.

I love this. Like everything else in life, nothing is free, there is a price sooner or later and there is always someone waiting to collect.

_____________________________

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 55

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 11:17:53 AM

sublace

Posts: 201
Status: offline

I agree that submission to someone is a gift. Problem is too many people take it for granted and expect it period. When I give myself to someone freely and without question it should be appreciated.

sublace

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 56

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 11:19:48 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublace

I agree that submission to someone is a gift. Problem is too many people take it for granted and expect it period. When I give myself to someone freely and without question it should be appreciated.

sublace

It is good manners to appreciate a gift but if the giver expects appreciation for a gift, it is not much of a gift but an expectation of something in return.

(in reply to sublace)

Post #: 57

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 11:21:20 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

I keep coming across this phrase 'submission is a gift'. To me it is arrant nonsense, if submission is a gift then domination is a gift. At best submission is a loan while a relationship is sound.

The sub wouldn't be submitting if s/he isn't getting anything out of a relationship in return, it takes two to tango so basically what is happening is an exchange of favours.

Am I right or am I wrong?

either neither an or ore

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 58

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 2:07:22 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I do not believe submission is a gift either. Every time I see that phrase I envision someone with an over-inflated ego, thinking how wonderful she (he) is, and how lucky her (his) Dom is to have her (him), blah blah blah....So much for humility. A Dom to receive such a gift should be grateful and endebted...right? ~grin~

Submission is my need, and my inner drive. If anything is a gift, it is his gift to me that he fosters my susbmission as he does, and allows me the opportunity to express who I am with such a wonderful man.

((((((((((((((Owned)))))))))))))) you always have the right words.. even when I don't always agree with you....lol... luckily for me..I somewhat do this time..

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 59

RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 2:24:20 PM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline

*Ominous evil emperor music here*
Submission is no a gift it is plunder!

Now I will chime in as to why it is plunder to me.

We are entering into a relationship where you are giving me 99.99% control. The .01% is the neat little power that allows you to walk away from the relationship, end a scene, yada yada yada. We negotiate your limits and discuss the dynamics of the relationship. We agree on the comfort levels and the zones of control and limits and how they apply to us. Once we are in accord and agree the relationship is now a go… you get tossed over the shoulder and become plunder for my wickedness. With your limits and the dynamics in mind the boundaries are set and get to plunder and pillage you till my weasely black heart is content, as if it will happen.
We have an understanding of the boundaries and neither of us shall cross them. With that in mind your job is to please me. What pleases me? Many many things but most important of all making sure you know I am Master you are slave, you are mine and I will do whatever I please within our boundaries. Your submission is my plunder, a greedily guarded treasure of my pleasure. What ever your terminology for your submission becomes a moot point (it is what ever you want to think it I), all that matters is once we are Master and slave you are my plunder and will go where I go, do what I do, and be the willing victim of whatever wickedness I have in mind.

IMO YMMV

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)

Post #: 60

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