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RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 2:41:54 PM   
sublace


Posts: 201
Status: offline 		I don't expect anything from anyone, but I don't want to be taken for granted.  If I give you my body to use for your pleasure, you should respect that for what it is.  I gave myself, you didn't take it, so appreciate that fact and enjoy the gift.

sublace

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:02:49 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

((((((((((((((Owned)))))))))))))) you always have the right words.. even when I don't always agree with you....lol... luckily for me..I somewhat do this time..


~Peeks in to huggggg True, the leading member of my wonderful fan club of one. 

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:09:06 PM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

Submission is a gift? Did you know that gifts can be returned or exchanged at the whim of the receiver?
 



Or...heaven forbid....regifted!!!!!!   

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 9:22:47 PM   
cacodylic


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/6/2005
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublace

I don't expect anything from anyone, but I don't want to be taken for granted.  If I give you my body to use for your pleasure, you should respect that for what it is.  I gave myself, you didn't take it, so appreciate that fact and enjoy the gift.

sublace

exactamundo! There are so many dommes who clearly do take it all for granted. And apparently many subs who are OK with that, but not this one...

(in reply to sublace)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 11:35:39 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:



Eidted to add.... used fast reply.. not intended to mean you Bita.... hugggs



It's all good. The shoes fits so I'll wear it. ::chuckles:: I do think that the phrase came about with the advent of the Internet and I first saw it used in chat rooms, never in any of the r/t dungeons I frequented. Perhaps things have changed over the years but I have seen so many 'subbies' get themselves collared in a single evening then a week later they are collared to someone new and all the while they proclaim their submission is a gift. Just had a young lady on here a few days ago who got herself collared to someone, moved and now she's gone completely. So, it still seems to be fairly prevalent in the cyber world to give and give but not have a whole lot of meaning to the gift. I don't know.. I see these gifts and collars lasting for 2 or 3 weeks and I have to wonder what sort of value they really have.

Perhaps that's too harsh a view. I don't know. I can only go from my own perspective on this. I play with targets, I hurt them, if I'm lucky I get to make them bleed, then I send them home and we're both satisfied. My submission though, comes from Master's ability to 'take' it.. not from me gifting it to him. Call me a knucklehead, but that's the way it's been since I first jumped into the leather vats.. and there's some odd saying about teaching an old dog new tricks.

I'd like to hear more from the gift givers actually. I mean, for me.. it was a no brainer.. my submission went to the man who could take it from me. How do those that gift it determine who's got the ability to handle it? What if you try to gift it to someone who doesn't want it? What does it mean if you don't want to gift it anymore? Is it a gift you give every moment of every day or is it given once until you decide you don't want to give it anymore? Can you ever give it away to such a point that you can't get it back? What do you call it in a case like that?

Eh. It's 1:30 in the morning.. and I've read all the other threads that I care to read so it's either this.. or random stupidity and I've fucked with True's head enough for one night. ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/9/2006 11:42:30 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original: Celeste
My submission though, comes from Master's ability to 'take' it.. not from me gifting it to him.


That's so true..submission really has to be *taken* for the whole dynamic to play out on the rawest, most real(sorry for that word, well no I'm not but hey) level. I can really understand it that way.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 2:15:19 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublace

I don't expect anything from anyone, but I don't want to be taken for granted.  If I give you my body to use for your pleasure, you should respect that for what it is.  I gave myself, you didn't take it, so appreciate that fact and enjoy the gift.

sublace


This is my whole problem 'I give you my body to use for your pleasure..'. I was told this quite often in one relationship. From what I could see she was also getting a lot of pleasure too which was why she wanted to share it with me and wanted me to share my body with her. It's a two way street as is taking someone for granted, subs can do it as well as doms.

(in reply to sublace)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 7:22:32 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
My submission though, comes from Master's ability to 'take' it.. not from me gifting it to him.


Same here,  My litlte one will be the first to tell you that she didn't gift a thing, it was taken.  As Ms Jessica mentioned earlier if the persons in the relationship want to veiw themselves as gift givers the more power to them in their relationship.  I still wonder what happens when I want to "regift" them to another Master?

I will say while traveling this road I learned to stay away from the pot holes clamining to be gifts.

K

edited to add

When one gives me a gift, is that gift not mine to do with as I please?  When you tell me I have a hard limit  of not being poked with sticks on Tuesdays,  I wonder how can a "gift" have limits?  You would not gift me a shirt and then tell me I can't wear it on Tuesdays. 

Maybe all of the Doms and Masters here should start a  gift exchange pool.  When you receive a "gift" you might not want bring it to the gift pool and exchange it for another.

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 6/10/2006 7:28:51 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 8:42:04 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne
When one gives me a gift, is that gift not mine to do with as I please?  When you tell me I have a hard limit  of not being poked with sticks on Tuesdays,  I wonder how can a "gift" have limits?  You would not gift me a shirt and then tell me I can't wear it on Tuesdays. 



What an excellent point.  I guess you would call that a gift with strings attached, and who wants those??

(in reply to PlayfulOne)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 8:49:05 AM   
DommeChloe


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline 		Why can't we all just see it for what it is - - both the dominant and the submissive are serving each other's needs - both are getting their needs served - so what's the big deal?  If every one of us would remember that, essentially, we are meeting each other's needs,. questions like this would be moot. 
 
And, yes, ,  dominants are serving, too.  Being a dominant, when done right, is a hell of alot of wonderful work.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 9:02:19 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline 		One of these years I'll learn to just shut up and go read something else, because the "submission is a gift" subject makes me crazy.
 
Submission is not a gift. To me, it's probably the singularly most selfish thing I can do.  It comes with conditions.  It has requirements.  And if I'm not getting what I need from the one to whom I submit, I'm taking it back.  How is that a gift?
 
What it really is, is a trade-off.  You dominate me, and I'll submit to you.  If you don't dominate me, I'll be the one ruling the roost.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to DommeChloe)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 9:25:51 AM   
missalice


Posts: 38
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline 		In my opinion.... as a Dominant....

Submission is a gift. It is beautiful to me, to be entrusted so by someone. Yes, it comes with limits and requirements and such...

But Dominance is a responsibility, an obligation...  

I think whoever came up with the topic of submission is a gift was talking about the more intense submission, however. I've known so many intense submissives who give themselves over with so few limits and boundaries. Whoever came up with that line was trying to remind Dominants that they're blessed to have the love of their subbies..... no matter how much work it is. Just like kids, actually. Children are a blessing -- they're also little leaches who suck you dry. In general, when something grows in your body, takes nutrition from you, lives in your habitat and uses up your resources, you'd consider it a parasite. But children aren't parasites, they're gifts from (God/the universe/the Great Spirit/blah blah blah etc) .....

So. Submission is a gift, to me. And yeah, sometimes it's a bitch too. Doesn't make it any less sacred to me...

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 10:40:16 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
It’s just flowery talk.
No different than a married couple exchanging vows. "I give my heart to you" and blah, blah, blah.
This isn’t a birthday party. It’s people choosing to engage in activities together and/or relationships together.
If you want to call engaging in activities and relationships "gift giving", or spice it up with any other flowery talk, by all means, have at.
But at the end of the day, when it’s all said and done, no amount of flowery talk made it anything other than what it truly is: people choosing to engage in activities together and/or relationships together.
(Fast Reply)

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to missalice)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 1:14:14 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		  (Lightheartedly)......Sometimes it's better to focus on the spirit in which the *gift* was given....and not the gift itself.

agirl

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 1:32:12 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ceyx
I'm less enthusiastic about the alternative metaphors. Is submission part of a 'contract', then? It can be, but it sounds so cold and antiseptic. I understand the importance of 'negotiation,' but I can't hear the word without some idea that I'm engaged in a corporate merger or a peace treaty.


In many ways, you ARE engaging in the equivalant of a "corporate merger" when you go into a relationship.  After all - there are rules to follow on both sides, assets are merged into a single whole, you form a Partnership.  Not an Equal partnership in the case of a dominant/submissive dynamic - yet it's still very much a partnership, with each of the two (or more) parties bringing strengths and weaknesses to the table and expecting things in return.
 
Perhaps I'm a tad on the cold blooded side about certain things.  However, if I'm doing something out of love, it's without the expectation of return.  If I do something due to the rules/understandings within a dom/sub dynamic, it's Definately with the expectation of something in return.  A return on the investment of myself - my time, my effort, my assets both tangible and intangible - in a partnership where my partner holds controling interest in the venture.  If I didn't expect a return, then I wouldn't insist on negotiating terms, and everything being agreeable to both parties - I would simply do whatever was asked because it was asked, and because I loved that person I would want them to be happy with what was done.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to Ceyx)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 1:54:52 PM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I think it's nice that some people see their submission as a gift. I see them as romantics or very poetic. Not a bad thing.
I'll just take a small bit of romance, now and then, with my reality please and no sugar in my coffee.

~Big

______________________
ahhhh I see sounds



(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 2:13:37 PM   
tangldupinblue


Posts: 230
Joined: 3/20/2006
Status: offline 		i've worked my ass off (sometimes literaly) to obtain the level i have, no one handed this to me wrapped in a pretty red bow. i understand the sentiment, but i offer more then a gift, i offer myself.

blue

_____________________________

Those who deserve punshiment, take it calmly.

(in reply to bignipples2share)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/10/2006 2:40:11 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Like all human relationships, D/s is a give/give, take/take situation. Therefore, submission may be described as a gift (although I find the phrase rather jaded, I have heard it so many times), but so is Domination.

I know that a Dominant will feel tired and drained after a 'session' just as much as the submissive, albeit in a very different way.



_____________________________



(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/13/2006 7:40:08 AM   
Ceyx


Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Original: hizgeorgiapeach

Perhaps I'm a tad on the cold blooded side about certain things. However, if I'm doing something out of love, it's without the expectation of return. If I do something due to the rules/understandings within a dom/sub dynamic, it's Definately with the expectation of something in return.


See, what I do with miss does come out of love. The 'dom/sub dynamic' isn't one static, universal thing; there's a world of difference (not, I must stress, of value) between negotiating a scene at a play party and living in a committed, long-term relationship as Owner and slave. I would see the former as being more contractual, and rightly so-- you don't know this person very well, you're there to have a certain experience, and you should have it. If, however, you're saying that all romantic relationships are essentially no different from corporate mergers, then I can't agree. We do what we do because of the pleasure that comes from having the other person in our lives, but also because we want to see them happy and fulfilled.

Edited for spelling. Yes, I can type.

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? - 6/13/2006 7:58:53 AM   
MasterRoissey


Posts: 40
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		oh well...I will still consider My slaves total submission to Me a gift from her...to Me! just as I am sure that My Domination of her is My gift to her. afterall, aren't "gifts" to be offered. accepted and exchanged?

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 80
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