RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag?

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 9:50:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

granted, Ishtarr, but many will remember their OWN 19/29 etc yr old selves and laugh their ases off at what they THOUGHT they knew then, and DO know now.. and anticipate what they will know in the future compared to what these kids are getting all wonky about NOW.

Seriously...what you FEEL like now has nothing to do wth what you DO know now, in that 10 yr span. If you say otherwise, I will happily call BULLSHIT, unless you admit you are a clueless twat that has no capability to mature.

I'm not saying I haven't learned anything in the passed 9 years. But I'm definitely not sitting here laughing my ass of at what 19 year old me thought she knew. In fact, I think that 19 year old me was pretty much spot on with what she thought she knew, she just had a very rough an unrefined, but in my opinion, solid base.

In the last 9 years, I've been slowly forming and polishing that base more, and while it's far from finished at the moment, its base also hasn't changed at all in the last decade.
So either that's drastically going to change in the next year or so, or I'll never end up laughing at 19 year old me.

I guess I'll just have to admit to being a clueless twat who has never matured.

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I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 10:30:27 AM

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IME most folks laugh at the "silly" notions they held at their younger ages.

Those that don't ... well, personally, I avoid. to me it speaks of a personality that is far too self involved and places too much attention on how others perceive them.

JMNSHO.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 10:34:25 AM

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I was quite mature at 19. I was married, owned a home, owned a nice car, put myself through college. That doesn't mean that my ideas of life were mature. I look at what my ideas of love, relationships and interactions were and realize that that I had some serious rose colored glasses going on.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 10:56:59 AM

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Well you best avoid me then Greedy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

That doesn't mean that my ideas of life were mature. I look at what my ideas of love, relationships and interactions were and realize that that I had some serious rose colored glasses going on.

See, now this I can see. My ideas at 19 where unrefined and often too optimistic, but I don't think at all that they where silly. I think that they where generally completely on the right track, but needed to become more realistic due to life experience.

I dunno, it may have something to do with the fact that I was "kicked out of the nest" and basically responsible for myself from 14/15 onwards, but I do feel that at 19 I was more mature than the average 19 year old, and I don't think that any of my ideas where silly or laughable... Just not yet refined.

But maybe Greedy is right and I'm still just an immature twat.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 7/31/2012 10:58:12 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 11:00:04 AM

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quote:

Race by the old farmstead sometime.

:P

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 11:00:28 AM

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Similarly here. I was a mother to two and married to an alcoholic third.

I did have a lot of ideas that were unrealistic, as well as quite a lot that were very self defeating. One thing for absolute, I had ZERO CLUE of my own strength and abilities at that time. None. Nada.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 11:00:46 AM

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That is not what I said at all, Ishtarr. WHat I was trying to say (and I admit that it may have been clumsy) was what Oside said so well...

If I thought you were an immature twat, I would have said so.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 7/31/2012 11:01:51 AM >

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 2:02:56 PM

fucktoyprincess

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Is a submissive with a strong personality a red flag? No.

But will such a submissive be the best match with every possible Dominant out there? Probably not, because attraction is a personal and subjective thing.

I have a strong personality and am a better fit with Dominants who like that.

I don't think having a strong personality somehow precludes me from being a "submissive" as a chosen role within BDSM.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 2:31:27 PM

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+1 to Ishtarr, in every way.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 5:11:25 PM

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Lilly!! So good to see you here again

I'm just going to answer the OP at face value.

A intelligent and independent submissive is a red flag to some and a dream to others. Just depends on what people are looking for - no more, no less. I'd be a nightmare to some. Fortunately I'm the Mister's perfect match. The challenge for me is in trusting his decisions when I think I know better, or when I'm so used to making my own choices and decisions. There isn't any head-butting between us, but it's been an adjustment for me.

As for "bratting" - hey I'm 46 and do my own minimal share of bratting, but it's all in good fun and always during play. He loves it, and actually intentionally pulls it out of me. And then we both end up laughing our asses off about it.

Here's the thing - when you meet someone you mesh well with, well that's all that really matters. If someone doesn't like the "kind of submissive" you are, then you simply move along.

As for age, well the older we are the more experiences we tend to have, but what we do with those experiences is what matters. A young person can evolve miles ahead of an older person, with the right perspective.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 6:37:17 PM

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I think back to when I was 19, fresh out of school, married, had a child and did A LOT of stupid stuff because at 19 I thought was was invincible. But now I laugh about how naive and idealistic I was. I sit back now and while I loved being married and having my daughter, I wish I would have gone to college first but I opted for the other because I loved my husband a lot. But we were both really really young and neither of us really gave much thought to the future unless the Navy was forcing us to lol.

<sits back with her memories from back then and how much of a moron she was rofl. >

As much as I would like to have my body back from then, I would never ever want to live it again lol

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 7/31/2012 9:48:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LolaLita

Let's say that you (the Master) have met a rather...strong-minded "potential" sub. Would his or her personality be too overwhelming, even if they were more than willing to submit to you? Is there really a such thing as a "bad submissive"?

I have been told that an intelligent, independent submissive woman is the "perfect" type. Why then, do so many run away when faced with such a person?

Based on what has already been touched on by others, what you are communicating is rather open ended. We need you to clarify to give you a more thorough and thoughtfull response for you to mull over.

About being a bad submissive : I believe there is such a thing. But, I equate that to communication, trust, and leadership. It is more likely to be the fault of the Dominant than the submissive when things go awry in the relationship. That is not to say that it is exclusively the Dom(me)'s fault. Rather, often the problem is a lack of clear communication, consistency, and trust between them, which leads to a myriad of other pitfalls. Certaily, there are times when a submissive will misbehave, or do things that are directly intended to sabotage a relationship no matter what the D does. These are usually unstable people with a mental disorder. There is no blue print for what is right. There is only what works and what does not for the people involved. Sometimes everything clicks and fires on all cylanders, and sometimes it simply doesn't work out. Period. There are also those who think they know what they want, and really don't. They usually get thier interests peaked by watching porn or reading erotica. But once they find themselves blindfolded and tied to a bed they change thier mind. The fantasy is never the same as the reality.

I personally love women with strong personalities. I'm attracted to bold women. It makes the dominance more fullfilling and rewarding to me. However, I'm not everyone. Each of us has our own quirks and desires, so what is grand to me will not be to others. As to why people run, very often it has been my experience, that D types often believe (particularly men) that a submissive should drop and perform some kind of sexual act simply because they are submissive. Wich is fucking stupid. When they realize that the target audience isn't some doormat, they take to the hills because they either lack confidence, social skills, or fear confrontation. These are usually the same people that prefer online D/s exploration to real life. And then there are the total nut jobs, who simply have no idea how to interact with the rest of society.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 12:29:27 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I don't think that any of my ideas where silly or laughable... Just not yet refined.

I have had so many rows with people about age on this site, I have met people in their fourties who talk as though they have less life experience than I do however I accept my own limitations. I can understand what you are saying about having that solid base of beliefs and morals and all that at 19 but even for an avid age warrior like me I find it tough to imagine that none of your ideas were silly at the time. For me I was still at university so I had a lot more learning going on there, of course that never really stops. I don't look back at specific thoughts and think, pah I was stupid, not really (I do look back at choices and think that) if anything, that lack of refinement is even more apparent in my views now. I am less set in my ways at 26 than I was at 19 because the one big lesson I have learned is that people, circumstances and life always surprise you.

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 1:51:35 AM

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For a lot of men, intelligence and a strong will are GOOD traits for a woman to have, and for some they are essential traits. Not many want what some might call a "doormat"--out of those that DO want a "doormat," many only want such a thing because it's easier for them and they are insecure and not confident in themselves.

So no, it is not a "red flag." Just an indication of a personality that some like and some don't. Their choice. And yours as well. Don't force yourself to change to fit someone else's definition of a "good submissive." It's your definition that matters, and that's what you should be concerned with--finding someone whose definition is compatible with yours. No one's wrong. Everyone has their own version of "right," and they all have the right to pursue that for themselves.

I don't want to get into the age issue, but I will quote this because it bears repeating:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
As for age, well the older we are the more experiences we tend to have, but what we do with those experiences is what matters.

Oh!, and it's good to see you posting again, Lilly! :)

(in reply to LolaLita)

RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 7:47:50 AM

poise

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I have a question.
Are we discussing brattiness OR a strong personality? And if it is option B,
what exactly do you mean by a 'strong personality'?

Since the Op failed to answer your question, perhaps her post here and
the response by myotherself will help to answer it.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4142846/mpage_8/key_/tm.htm#4190590

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 8:35:05 AM

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quote:

I have been told that an intelligent, independent submissive woman is the "perfect" type. Why then, do so many run away when faced with such a person?

Wow... let's see. Someone told you that the type of person you just happen to be is perfect and you're wondering why everyone else on the planet is too stupid to realize that obvious fact? Seriously? I have a few reasons I wouldn't be interested in you and amazingly enough, they don't have to do with being intimidated by someone who's younger than my children.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 8/1/2012 9:03:04 AM >

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 8:46:01 AM

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quote:

I have been told that an intelligent, independent submissive woman is the "perfect" type. Why then, do so many run away when faced with such a person?

Well, let's just look at this, logically ...

I have absolutely no issue with intelligence. I like a lady that can keep me on my toes (and I enjoy doing Sunday crossword puzzles while laying in bed, late) but the other two adjectives are troubling:

quote:

ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary (Bolded text is my doing)
in·de·pen·dent
ADJECTIVE:

Not governed by a foreign power; self-governing.

Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant: an independent mind.

Not determined or influenced by someone or something else; not contingent: a decision independent of the outcome of the study.

often Independent Affiliated with or loyal to no one political party or organization.

Not dependent on or affiliated with a larger or controlling entity: an independent food store; an independent film.

Not relying on others for support, care, or funds; self-supporting.
Providing or being sufficient income to enable one to live without working: a person of independent means.

Now, let's look at "Submit" (since "submissive" is an adjective that describes someone who submits)

quote:

ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary (Bolded text is my doing)
sub·mit
VERB:
sub·mit·ted, sub·mit·ting, sub·mits
VERB:
tr.

To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.

To subject to a condition or process.

To commit (something) to the consideration or judgment of another. See Synonyms at propose.

To offer as a proposition or contention: I submit that the terms are entirely unreasonable.

VERB:
intr.

To give in to the authority, power, or desires of another. See Synonyms at yield.

To allow oneself to be subjected to something.

So, we can see that "independent" kind of flies in the face of "submit". That's my answer to your question.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 10:54:13 AM

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Right, having followed this thread for a bit, I do have to qualify slightly..

I adore smart, assertive, confident, successful. Sassy even.

Opinionated without substance, arrogant, aggressive, rude. Not so much.

So when you say "strong minded".... it depends on whether that strong mindedness is born out of smart, assertive, confident, successful or Opinionated without substance, arrogant, aggressive, rude.

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(in reply to LolaLita)

RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 12:40:59 PM

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It's great that you have an opinion. In fact, everyone has one. Everyone also has an anus, and it emits fecalmatter.

Much like your opinion. C:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure how someone whose profile says she submits to everyone and compares herself to a stray pup can at the same time be a strong and challenging sub to one.

What you see as condescension we see as the same old, same old. I don't know how many barely legals have been here claiming they are decades more mature than their chronological age. From where I sit, that's never been true. You come across as highly defensive.

You know more at 19 than you did at 9. At 29 you will be amazed how naive your 19 year old self appears. At 49 you will laugh at the the things you said at 29 thinking you knew it all.

< Message edited by LolaLita -- 8/1/2012 12:42:10 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Is A Submissive With A Strong Personality A Red Flag? - 8/1/2012 12:44:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Right, having followed this thread for a bit, I do have to qualify slightly..

I adore smart, assertive, confident, successful. Sassy even.

Opinionated without substance, arrogant, aggressive, rude. Not so much.

So when you say "strong minded".... it depends on whether that strong mindedness is born out of smart, assertive, confident, successful or Opinionated without substance, arrogant, aggressive, rude.

Judging from her posts....it's option number two.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to crazyml)

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