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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 5:42:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Yes, and carrying a communist banner is not freedom of speech?

Everyone should have Freedom of Speech, but not a decorated soldier?....Really DS?....

I read your claim of such, but have no knowledge of it, if it was not picked by him, but was selected by those who lead the group, should he not protest based on the selction of a banner?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that he stated publicly that he was a founding member of (?)VVAW and as such, I would assume he had a lot of say as to what their banner would be.

As far as "Freedom of Speech" people that are in the service have to refrain from exercising some of their rights. I didn't say he didn't have the right to protest. I said that I was pretty sure at the time that he did it, it was a court-martial offense. You still haven't refuted that.

Nice try at another strawman. I didn't say he didn't have the right to protest. As a matter of fact; I said that he did:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
He absolutely had a right to protest the war. of course he did. As a reserve officer in the US Navy, he didn't have the right to do it under a communist banner.

Strike two.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 5:56:40 AM

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Strike Two....what's wrong DS, too many questions?....

"After returning to the United States, Kerry joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Then numbering about 20,000,[51]
....Not exactly afrounding father, now was he?

" Daily World prominently published photographs of Kerry addressing anti-war protestors, some of whom were carrying banners with portraits of Communist Party leader Angela Davis. Openly organized by known Communists, these rallies were typified by what the December 12, 1971 Herald Traveler called an “abundance of Vietcong flags, clenched fists raised in the air, and placards plainly bearing legends in support of China, Cuba, the USSR, North Korea and the Hanoi government"

Seems to me, that he spoke at events where OTHERS carried such banners, no refernce to the Veterns group having such a banner???

Is that strike 3 on you.....does that mean you are OUT?...not used to having discussions umpired, and I lost count of mis-statements, or statements that cannot be proven....

< Message edited by SilverMark -- 8/6/2012 5:57:42 AM >

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:29:42 AM

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VVAW

From the link:

quote:

ORIGINAL: VVAW's own website
VVAW national leader Al Hubbard appointed Kerry to the VVAW Executive Committee to assist in preparing Dewey Canyon III, VVAW's limited incursion into the land of Congress in 1971. Kerry made his greatest contribution to the anti-war movement and to VVAW in his speech to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 23, 1971.

Hence the references to "Kerry's organization" that floated around, years ago. However:

quote:

ORIGINAL: VVAW's own website
By 1972, John Kerry had moved on from VVAW. He was not one of the original founding members of VVAW in 1967.

Your distinction of him, speaking in front of people, carrying communist banners and marching under same is interesting.

Do you think his addresses were to point out the error of the communists' ways or to inflame them?

When he met with representatives of the North Vietnamese government and subsequently presented the communist plan for US withdrawl to the congress, was he doing that to ridicule the communists?

As an executive officer of the VVAW, do you think he had any say in their banner or their platform?

In all fairness to Senator Heinz ... Ooooops! I meant Mr. Heinz ... I mean Sen. Kerry, he resigned from the VVAW after attending the meeting in kansas City where plans to assassinate US senators and congressmen were discussed. That is according to FBI files. Apparently, he did so, immediately yet he failed to report the conspiracy to murder elected officials of the US to the proper authorities (or at least, his chain of command).

So, while still an officer in the Naval reserve, "saint" John ...

1) Addressed communist rallies
2) indulged in possible "private negotiations" (By his own admission, he may be guilty of that; on top of his war crimes)
3) acted as the spokesperson for a country with whom we were at war
4) witnessed a conspiracy to assassinate elected US officials and remained silent about it.

Indeed, an example of integrity and patriotism.

I haven't been able to find that photo of Kerry, marching under the banner bearing the hammer and sickle that was floating around years ago but, I will.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:30:36 AM

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Brother Satyr,

I love you man, but you're onto a loser here.

Kerry never marched "under" a communist banner.

Never.

And, I'd say that as a Vet, he'd have more right than most to protest the war.

And I frikken know you're smart enough to see how someone could both be proud of their service, and ashamed of the politics that sent them overseas.

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:45:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Brother Satyr,

I love you man, but you're onto a loser here.

Kerry never marched "under" a communist banner.

Never.

And, I'd say that as a Vet, he'd have more right than most to protest the war.

And I frikken know you're smart enough to see how someone could both be proud of their service, and ashamed of the politics that sent them overseas.

You are quite correct and I have said (twice now) that he had every right to protest. Some would say (and I might even agree) that he had a moral obligation to speak out about the war and the damage it was doing. I have never disputed his right to disagree with the politics of his leaders (although the UCMJ would disagree, to some degree).

No loser, what-so-ever.

I do maintain that he did do so under a communist banner. That's an issue.

By his own admission, his trip to Paris to meet with Vietcong leaders might have been a violation of law.

FBI files show that he resigned his membership after attending a meeting where assassinations were discussed and never reported those conspiracies. To be fair to him; it was immediately after.

The man was the definition of a waffler (He partook in a protest where veterans threw their medals, DD214s and uniform insignia over the capital fence and yet, his military decorations adorned his senate office wall, two decades later).

I haven't found the photo, yet (I have the damned thing on an old hard drive, too. Piss me off) but, I will.

He spoke at rallies organized by and attended by communists. He did all of this while an officer in the US Navy reserve corps. He is, quite possibly, a traitor that was never brought to task for these actions but, he has a "D" after his name so, it's okay. He meant well.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:48:46 AM

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Did he make propoganda broadcasts for the vietcong?
If we're talking about traitors who weren't prosecuted, he'd have to do a lot of traitorous stuff to give Sorebutt McCain any competition...

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:53:47 AM

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Protest is often the most sincere form of Patriotisim....

Addressed communist organized, ANTI-WAR rallies...He was not advocating Communism, he was advocating the stopping of an unjust war, perpetrated by a LIE, and prosecuted by AMERICAN youths at the direction of a misguided government, based on a theory.....in plain terms The Viet Nam War was BULLSHIT!

How many assassinations were carried out?.... Was his knowledge DIRECT? If so, why no prosecution for conspiracy?

Possible....love that word...."that may be true or may be the case, as something concerning which one has no knowledge to the contrary"
I'd hang him for POSSIBLE...

"When he met with representatives of the North Vietnamese government and subsequently presented the communist plan for US withdrawl to the congress, was he doing that to ridicule the communists?" I doubt ridicule was his intent, but perhaps stopping a war might have been, you would have preferred that the war last even longer? Was he giving aid to an enemy? If so , why was he not prosecuted?

Sound bites make for a weak argument, when at the time most of what is said in your response was and is illegal, yet no prosecution, could it be, there was very little evidence? Conjecture does not make for a good prosecution, now does it? Really doesn't even make a good debate.

Where's that umpire?

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:54:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Did he make propoganda broadcasts for the vietcong?
If we're talking about traitors who weren't prosecuted, he'd have to do a lot of traitorous stuff to give Sorebutt McCain any competition...

Aww c'mon.

Defending one veteran's right to express his opinions, to go to lengths to understand the point of view of the other side, and to not have his service disrespected cannot go hand-in hand with attacking another Vet.

That is low.

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:58:07 AM

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That's sort of my point: McCain gets a free pass for making propaganda broadcasts while a POW, but Kerry's a traitor because he attended a few antiwar protests?

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 6:58:52 AM

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Moonie, I would give McCain a pass on that one, he was a Guest at the Hanoi Hilton, and the NVA was not known to be very accommodating. McCain, like Kerry was a decorated Veteran and deserves our respect for his service, it wasn't his fault that his time to serve was during an unjust, erroneous war.

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The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:01:08 AM

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Silver, Since you are a champion of free speech, I assume you will be going to Chick-fla to support Mr. cathy's free speech right? Or does that "right" only apply to what democrats want?

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:04:16 AM

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Nope, as part of my right to freedom of speech, is to boycott Mr Cathy's establishment, but I wouldn't try to stop him from exercising his rights either.

A bit of a stupid question to ask here, are you offended by the right of freedom of speech, or are you just less than bright?

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If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:08:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Moonie, I would give McCain a pass on that one, he was a Guest at the Hanoi Hilton, and the NVA was not known to be very accommodating.

Very true, but there were a lot more inmates who didn't make any broadcasts.

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:09:05 AM

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The NVA knew his Father was an Admiral, I am certain they targeted him above others.

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The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:15:00 AM

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Quite probably.
Of course, if his dad hadn't been an admiral, he wouldn't have got sent up in any more jets after the first couple he wrecked, so that one cuts both ways...

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:22:38 AM

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Kerry on The Paris Trip

From the link:

quote:

Kerry met with representatives from "both delegations" of the Vietnamese in Paris in 1970, according to Kerry's own testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971. But Kerry's meetings with the Vietnamese delegations were in direct violation of laws forbidding private citizens from negotiating with foreign powers, according to researcher and author Jerry Corsi, who began studying the anti-war movement in the early 1970s.

According to Corsi, Kerry violated U.S. code 18 U.S.C. 953. "A U.S. citizen cannot go abroad and negotiate with a foreign power," Corsi told CNSNews.com.

By Kerry's own admission, he met in 1970 with delegations from the North Vietnamese communist government and discussed how the Vietnam War should be stopped.

Also:

quote:

Kerry did meet face-to-face with the PVR's negotiator Madam Nguyen Thi Binh, according to his presidential campaign spokesman Michael Meehan. Madam Binh's peace plan was being proposed by the North Vietnamese communists as a way to bring a quick end to the war.

...

"In [Kerry's] first meeting in 1970, meeting with Madam Binh, Kerry was still a naval reservist - not only a U.S. citizen, but a naval reservist - stepping outside the boundaries to meet with one of the principle figures of our enemy in Vietnam, Madam Binh, and the Viet Cong at the same time. [Former Nixon administration aide Henry] Kissinger was trying to negotiate with them formally," Corsi told CNSNews.com.

No debate. He admitted he met with communists and admitted - in his testimony in front of the SASC - that those meetings might have been a violation of the law.

SASC Testimony

quote:

ORIGINAL: Comarade Kerry's testimony in front of SASC

Mr. Kerry: Mr. Chairman, I realize that full well as a study of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera.

That's why I used the word "possible" SilverMark because Comarade Kerry essentially said the same thing but, well played ... NOT!

Ooooops! I forgot to respond to this little tidbit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
How many assassinations were carried out?.... Was his knowledge DIRECT? If so, why no prosecution for conspiracy?

According to FBI files Kerry WAS at the meeting in Kansas but resigned from the executive committee (and possibly the organization) immediately after the assassinations were discussed.

Whether they were carried out or not, he resigned meaning he thought the threats credible and he failed to report them. That's a violation, also.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Edited to add the testimony to the SASC link and the Kansas meeting bit

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 8/6/2012 7:32:25 AM >

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:22:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumblweed

OK we know that no US President has died in combat.

But then there are other questions. Have any been injured, shed blood or even got their boots muddy ? I think the closest we came was McCain being the only POW in history to gain weight, but he didn't win. We have a couple of pilots who kill from the sky. Are there any who actually were in a real battle on the ground ?

Weed

If you are from the US and don't know this, I'm extremely disappointed.

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:26:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Have you really never heard of PT-109?

A bit of a hijack, but times have changed a lot. I heard that Kennedy's family pulled strings for JFK's service - to get him IN, not OUT. Back then, it was impossible to run for President unless you had served, and JFK should have been disqualified because of his back. He saved a man's life while under attack, and the rest is history.

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:28:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondare

Washington, Monroe (Revolutionary )
Jackson , W.H. Harrison (1812)
Taylor, Pierce (Mexican)
Grant, Hayes, Garfield, B. Harrison, McKinley (Civil)
T. Roosevelt (Spanish-American)
Truman ( WW I)
Eisenhower, Kennedy, L. Johnson, Ford, G.H.W. Bush (WW II)

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_US_presidents_have_fought_in_combat#ixzz22k7MEcyt

OR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_rank

Gee, that was kind of easy

Jimmy Carter too. He was in the Navy.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: "Mitt" Romney: Piece of Shit DRAFT DODGER... - 8/6/2012 7:29:15 AM

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Does Garfield being killed by surgeons from the armed services, rather than a bullet that lodged doing little damage count?

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