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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 7:44:41 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22
Just show me an example of a financial domination relationship that works at all. Bonus points for children and families.
Osidegirl: We've been married for 13 years, he controls the finances, I own my own businesses and I get an allowance. Financial dominance. For more than a decade. #happily married
Really? That drives the depth of your love?

OK, so to be clear, you are defining a findomme/finsub relationship as one where "money drives the depths of love". Do I have that correct? Because if so, that description applies to pretty much all heterosexual vanilla relationships. I say that not out of cynicism but out of scientific fact... at least at the initial mate selection phase. But let's just run with that.

K? I'd like to know if that description fits the thing you are talking about when you talk about findomme. It's really two questions:

A) Is there love?
B) Is money the underpinnings of those love?

and for bonus points...

If the money went away so would the relationship?

Please (assuming you're willing) answer from the basis of actual relationship(s) you have in play at this moment and if needed group into categories.

_____________________________

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 11:27:27 AM   
evesgrden


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22
Just show me an example of a financial domination relationship that works at all. Bonus points for children and families.



We've been married for 13 years, he controls the finances, I own my own businesses and I get an allowance. Financial dominance. For more than a decade. #happily married



Prior to being married, did you send him gifts or money in order to curry favor? Is your relationship contingent upon you giving him gifts and money? Was that a contingency in the dating phase? Is he aroused by this? <---pretty much rhetorical but I think you see where I'm going with this.


While he's assumed responsibility for family finances, I bet that's only one of many responsibilities he's taken on and would likely not call himself a Findom any more than he would a KitchenDom, or CarDom or Tooldom and so forth.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 11:40:06 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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In all the divorces I've handled over the years, one spouse always managed the finances. Often, even when the man was the spouse with more power or control in the marriage, financial management responsibility would be delegated to the woman. Not the same as financial domination, not a form of remuneration to have the "relationship".

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 11:43:44 AM   
PeonForHer


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FR

I don't see the problem with this distinction. I have a relationship with my grocer: he is the seller and I am the buyer. A relationship with a romantic partner involves no (necessary) buying and selling. Is a findomme/pay-sub relationship 'legitimate'? Yes, of course: it's a legitimate selling-and-buying relationship. I can't quite see why it needs to be any more complicated than that.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 11:48:24 AM   
garyFLR


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I don't see the problem with this distinction. I have a relationship with my grocer: he is the seller and I am the buyer. A relationship with a romantic partner involves no (necessary) buying and selling. Is a findomme/pay-sub relationship 'legitimate'? Yes, of course: it's a legitimate selling-and-buying relationship. I can't quite see why it needs to be any more complicated than that.


Totally agree with you Peon, I think sometimes that the anti findomme faction like to make a mountain out of a molehill.


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 12:41:14 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: garyFLR


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I don't see the problem with this distinction. I have a relationship with my grocer: he is the seller and I am the buyer. A relationship with a romantic partner involves no (necessary) buying and selling. Is a findomme/pay-sub relationship 'legitimate'? Yes, of course: it's a legitimate selling-and-buying relationship. I can't quite see why it needs to be any more complicated than that.


Totally agree with you Peon, I think sometimes that the anti findomme faction like to make a mountain out of a molehill.


That's like confusing the farmer and the grocer. The Findoms are saying they are not selling . . . they say it is a BDSM relationship . . . that it isn't about the money. They say the money isn't important that the power is important and the money is incidental. And people are asking if they would do it if the money wasn't there.

Some feel no matter how you pretend to get paid, getting paid makes you a sex workers/adult entertainers/hookers/or whatever and that is like asking prostitutes how they like sex relationships. It isn't really about the sex, it is about the money. no matter how many $150-$250/hr escorts stand up and say they don't have sex with their clients, it is a lie for legal reasons. And that is what the anti findomme faction is talking about, having FinDoms claiming to be part of the BDSM community when it is really about the money.

I don't care about pros . . . I managed an escort service and worked in the adult entertainment industry. I think it is a valid business that should be legalized in all states. But don't try and bullshit me that escorts are just for the company and FinDoms are a part of BDSM relationships. Take away the money and the escorts won't be doing "full service" in calls and FinDoms won't be camming it with their piggies.

Like I said, FinDoms are an online phenomena that you won't see in the real life leather community or at leather conventions. You will never find a Domme at a munch that can get a male sub to drive up and put cash in her mail boxes and then drive away without getting a session in person.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 1:33:25 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I don't see the problem with this distinction. I have a relationship with my grocer: he is the seller and I am the buyer. A relationship with a romantic partner involves no (necessary) buying and selling. Is a findomme/pay-sub relationship 'legitimate'? Yes, of course: it's a legitimate selling-and-buying relationship. I can't quite see why it needs to be any more complicated than that.

But in reading what K has written I'm beginning to think that in at least some cases it IS more complicated than that... hence my question to her above.

If we were to lump M/s relationships all into one huge bucket, given that the failure rate is astronomical, would we come to the same conclusion about M/s? Put differently, in my opinion the vast majority of "masters" shouldn't have authority over a pet rock much less a human being. Does that mean the construct of M/s is stupid or does it mean that how it usually plays out is stupid? Or, alternately, does it not matter how awful the relationship is so long as sex is involved?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 3:36:31 PM   
TNDommeK


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Ok, RS..your last statement Bout having a sub pull up give money and leave, well, that happened to me, and does from time to time.
I do hear you about the escort situation. As a dancer, I know pleeeenty of escorts. I do know there are some who do have sex, but, I do know some that don't. There are some who simply are arm candy. Do the clients attempt to get them to fuck, sure they do. But that's a whole different discussion. Also, I wanted to say your description of not ever seeing a fin Domme in community activities wasn't right either. I go to play parties, munches, and if I could find classes out here for anything, I'd go. I'm always wanting to learn more more more. Now, if you were referring to the fin ducks, then you're right. They'd never leave the computer,lol.
And your first paragraph...I'm not sure who one could get into financial domination if money wasn't involved. That would be like saying I enjoy kick ball but there's no ball. Lol.

Okay, Jeff....
There is love, but not in the sense that I love my husband. I do love having my slaves at my beck and call. I do love the attention, I love their devotion. I love them, just not the same kinda love.

The under printings....no. Because the money was going to be there regardless, that was their whole intention of writing me to begin with. The love unfolded as I got to know them.

If the money went away would the relationship? No, just the financial domination would. I have a sub now, who I still speak with and enjoy talking with. We have a friendship relationship. And if he ever ventures to lil rock, I'd love to see him, do dinner, catch up, etc.

Oh, I just went back up and read your question...you said in play this moment.
Ok I'll take this one sub for example. There is a relationship, not sexual AT ALL. He knows his place and where he stands with me.
If the financial domination stopped. We would still be great friends. We have a lot in common. And he's pretty cool. :)



< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 10/12/2013 3:38:17 PM >


_____________________________

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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 4:03:39 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

My personal opinion on Financial Domination, is it exists but it is not legitimate. Its based on a lot falsehoods.

Basically it is a superficial relationship based on $$$. Lonely or horny guy or woman is willing to pay $$$ for a pretend relationship or favors by a physically very attractive individual. They dig in their pockets to have that pretend relationship with an individual most likely they could not actually have a real existence with outside the $$$. It is no mystery physically beautiful people are usually attracted to like beautiful people, their equal. Same goes with intelligence, a healthy person generally looks for their equal in that department too or a least someone close. ANd maybe some people don't want real, they want pretend or fantasy either because they don't have room or want of a relationship, or they aren't healthy enough for a real relationship. Even if the person enjoys it for whatever reason, its still not real.
Take the $$$ from it, and it disappears, just like Santa does when your about 7 or 8 yrs old.




I disagree for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I don't think it's fair to generalize - There are quite a few FD relationships that have been described on this thread that are nothing whatsoever like the relationship you describe.

Of course, yes, there are lots of lonely people that buy Domination, and yes there are lots of self labelled Fin Dommes who are nothing more than prostitutes or scammers.

But part of the discussion should, I hope, open people's minds to the idea that it's plain foolish to generalize so completely.

I used to live next to an old gent who was regularly visited by the prettiest young woman every Wednesday afternoon. I asked him once if she was his daughter... he went all sheepish so I let it drop.

A couple of years later he got ill and I visited in hospital, and as I was leaving the same girl arrived. She was obviously worried and concerned.

He died a couple of weeks later and I saw her at the funeral - right at the back of the chapel.

So... yeah... she was a prostitute. She'd been seeing him for 7 years. She wouldn't have seen him if he didn't pay, but it would be absurd to claim there was no relationship.

Conversely, I've met plenty of people who wouldn't consider dating someone below a certain income, who drove a certain car etc etc. So is the pretty girl who is with the wealthy middle aged man not in a real relationship?

Besides... what on earth is an "unreal relationship" - surely once you interact with someone you have a relationship with them? A real one... it may not be a "life partner" relationship, it may not map neatly onto your (or my) mental image of what a relationship ought to be, but it's a little odd to claim that it's not real. It plainly is.

So... while I think you may well be right about many FD situations, I hope you'll consider not making such a broad generalization?

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 4:06:13 PM   
TNDommeK


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This^^^

And...that was a sweet story about the girl and the dying man. :)


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 5:15:06 PM   
dink22


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22


Look, if you don't think you're being uppity, then okay. I guess you don't see yourself that way.


I'm guessing that you probably can't see how some observers might regard your posts as a little bit silly and churlish?

Am I right?



You are 100 percent right. I REALLY can't understand how some observers, who were being honest, could see my posts as a little bit silly and churlis. On the other hand, I COULD see how observers with a self-serving in-denial bias could see my posts as as a little bit silly and churlis


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 5:35:06 PM   
TNDommeK


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And the common denominator is......

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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 5:50:18 PM   
dink22


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

And the common denominator is......


Clearly, the common denominator is a self-serving, in-denial bias. Such is the world of financial domination. It not only thrives on that, it exists because of that.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 6:09:06 PM   
evesgrden


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quote:

She wouldn't have seen him if he didn't pay


Nail Head Bang

Lots of people like their clients/customers.

But... they are indeed customers paying for a service.

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What you permit, you promote.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/12/2013 7:11:02 PM   
TNDommeK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dink22


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

And the common denominator is......


Clearly, the common denominator is a self-serving, in-denial bias. Such is the world of financial domination. It not only thrives on that, it exists because of that.


I'll spell it out since you clearly aren't getting it.
It's YOU. You are the only person who is in denial. Plenty of fin dommes have proven your opinions and theories wrong, you just choose to ignore that. Thus why your comments are looked at as silly.

_____________________________

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The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/13/2013 4:05:09 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

My personal opinion on Financial Domination, is it exists but it is not legitimate. Its based on a lot falsehoods.

Basically it is a superficial relationship based on $$$. Lonely or horny guy or woman is willing to pay $$$ for a pretend relationship or favors by a physically very attractive individual. They dig in their pockets to have that pretend relationship with an individual most likely they could not actually have a real existence with outside the $$$. It is no mystery physically beautiful people are usually attracted to like beautiful people, their equal. Same goes with intelligence, a healthy person generally looks for their equal in that department too or a least someone close. ANd maybe some people don't want real, they want pretend or fantasy either because they don't have room or want of a relationship, or they aren't healthy enough for a real relationship. Even if the person enjoys it for whatever reason, its still not real.
Take the $$$ from it, and it disappears, just like Santa does when your about 7 or 8 yrs old.




I disagree for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I don't think it's fair to generalize - There are quite a few FD relationships that have been described on this thread that are nothing whatsoever like the relationship you describe.

Of course, yes, there are lots of lonely people that buy Domination, and yes there are lots of self labelled Fin Dommes who are nothing more than prostitutes or scammers.

But part of the discussion should, I hope, open people's minds to the idea that it's plain foolish to generalize so completely.

I used to live next to an old gent who was regularly visited by the prettiest young woman every Wednesday afternoon. I asked him once if she was his daughter... he went all sheepish so I let it drop.

A couple of years later he got ill and I visited in hospital, and as I was leaving the same girl arrived. She was obviously worried and concerned.

He died a couple of weeks later and I saw her at the funeral - right at the back of the chapel.

So... yeah... she was a prostitute. She'd been seeing him for 7 years. She wouldn't have seen him if he didn't pay, but it would be absurd to claim there was no relationship.

Conversely, I've met plenty of people who wouldn't consider dating someone below a certain income, who drove a certain car etc etc. So is the pretty girl who is with the wealthy middle aged man not in a real relationship?

Besides... what on earth is an "unreal relationship" - surely once you interact with someone you have a relationship with them? A real one... it may not be a "life partner" relationship, it may not map neatly onto your (or my) mental image of what a relationship ought to be, but it's a little odd to claim that it's not real. It plainly is.

So... while I think you may well be right about many FD situations, I hope you'll consider not making such a broad generalization?


I have a very narrow view on this subject. Do I think on very rare, almost romance novel type situations, that at some point the money ceases to come, and a SINCERE relationship is developed? Maybe once in a blue moon. Individuals who's heart is STILL clearly motivated by power,sex and money, do not change their spots. IT IS A JOB. The object is to get money. If it was not the hearts motivation then their line of work would be different. If the true one objective was to better the client, they would do it for free, but its a job so payment is the objective. I will say this in defense of this line of work, its more honest then the vanilla, who don't announce their intent to the world, but clearly do use others for the same purpose. In example, the beautiful girl marries the old man and confesses love. How many times do you see a physically superior looking rich young individual marry down in social status, looks, or marry someone much older?

The question was Is financial domination a legit form of BDSM? I guess it could be considered legit, if the buyer SINCERELY likes to give their money away and they are sincerely aware, the relationship is based significantly, almost solely on the money and very little more.

The story of the pretty young woman who attended the funeral of the old man? You didn't happen to be around for the reading of the will were you? I knew a charismatic older pretty lady, who was not a prostitute, that superficially looked very good with her activity list etc. She befriended the elderly and married up, she was left in 3 substantial wills, including her husbands. She got everything, even the half intended and set aside for his adult children after his suicide. Then moved across country with her BF to live happily ever after. IT was all very legitimate and legal on paper. I guess it all comes down to what one finds the term legitimate means.

That is as broad as I can get on the subject on a relationship for payment, in reply to asking me to broaden my generalization.
Some opinions and beliefs are offensive to others, and I do apologize for that. I do understand this will not be a popular reply, but it is a SINCERE reply.

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/13/2013 4:26:09 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


The story of the pretty young woman who attended the funeral of the old man? You didn't happen to be around for the reading of the will were you?


Good point, well made. Sure there are lots of cases where it seems pretty obvious that a pretty young thing has hooked up with an elderly gent with a view to a fat inheritance. I can remember an interviewer asking the pretty young wife of an elderly stage magician "So, Debbie what attracted you to multi-millionaire Paul?"

In the case I described, the girl in question has been offered and had declined a spot in his will, and I got no impression at all that she'd been hanging out for a bequest. I can't say for certain, mind you, but I got the strong impression that she wasn't expecting a thing.



quote:




I knew a charismatic older pretty lady, who was not a prostitute, that superficially looked very good with her activity list etc. She befriended the elderly and married up, she was left in 3 substantial wills, including her husbands. She got everything, even the half intended and set aside for his adult children after his suicide. Then moved across country with her BF to live happily ever after. IT was all very legitimate and legal on paper. I guess it all comes down to what one finds the term legitimate means.

That is as broad as I can get on the subject on a relationship for payment, in reply to asking me to broaden my generalization.
Some opinions and beliefs are offensive to others, and I do apologize for that. I do understand this will not be a popular reply, but it is a SINCERE reply.


Sincerity, even when I disagree with it, deserves some respect. Thanks for your thoughtful response chatterbox.



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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/13/2013 4:32:45 AM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

quote:

She wouldn't have seen him if he didn't pay


Nail Head Bang

Lots of people like their clients/customers.

But... they are indeed customers paying for a service.


Sure, I can't deny that. But the idea that the customer cannot have a real and valid relationship with their supplier seems out of whack to me.

I'd also say that I've dated a few women in the past who certainly would not have dated me if I'd not had a certain income, a certain size of car etc. Notwithstanding their shallowness, they were still relationships.

Not overly long-lasting relationships, mind you.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 1738
RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/13/2013 6:53:16 AM   
evesgrden


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

quote:

She wouldn't have seen him if he didn't pay


Nail Head Bang

Lots of people like their clients/customers.

But... they are indeed customers paying for a service.


Sure, I can't deny that. But the idea that the customer cannot have a real and valid relationship with their supplier seems out of whack to me.

I'd also say that I've dated a few women in the past who certainly would not have dated me if I'd not had a certain income, a certain size of car etc. Notwithstanding their shallowness, they were still relationships.

Not overly long-lasting relationships, mind you.



I don't deny what you've just said here either. But what's also being contested is the notion that it's a customer based business.

_____________________________

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RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? - 10/13/2013 2:18:13 PM   
TNDommeK


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Not at all, as I stated earlier...if there was no money, there would be no financial domination. That is NOT the same as " there would be no relationship"....
What I'm contesting is that there are relationships and that it is a legit kink.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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Profile   Post #: 1740
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