RE: Iran VS Israel

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Iran VS Israel

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Iran VS Israel

Page: << < prev 14 15 [16] 17 18 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/22/2012 8:47:41 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

I suggest you keep it straight. Firstly, I didn't refer to you as a Marxist - I suggested you write a Marxist interpretation of history on the ME. Many apply that reading without being Marxist. Secondly, you repeatedly inferred that I agreed with the war. Here are a few of your absurdly hysterical responses when I only said the issue wasn't truly black and white:

I can understand why you would now weasel out of your Marxist comment. Lame, tho.

As to the war, the issue for me was always about responsibility for the subsequent deaths; never about your opinion on the war. Whether the deaths were caused by insurgents is immaterial. The deaths followed directly from Bush's stupidity. Why would he not expect insurgents? He was warned before the war that he was going in with an insufficient occupying force.

quote:

- I didn't blame him for the war. I simply said he should have complied after you falsely claimed that he had with a 12,000 page declaration that told the UN what they already knew. He agreed to comply with the UN resolution, then didn't, and didn't act on the imminent threat of war.

Saddam explained his motives in his predeath interrogation. Debate it with him, if you wish.

quote:

I assume that swipe was aimed in part at myself since you use the same words I used to describe your behaviour.

You assume too much. If it were aimed at you I would have addressed it to you.

quote:

However, you actually justified the violence Iran, Syria and the insurgent terrorists wrought on the Iraqi civil populace. That is twisted. You have no right to adopt the moral high ground.

I do not justify violence. I merely pointed out the realpolitik. There is no morality in armed invasion of a sovereign nation.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/22/2012 2:35:47 PM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

FR
Is this thread still alive?

Oh, good! It is. Just a few nasty posts missing.

So, where were we . . . . . lmao!!

< Message edited by vincentML -- 10/22/2012 2:38:26 PM >

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/22/2012 11:53:42 PM

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR
Is this thread still alive?

Oh, good! It is. Just a few nasty posts missing.

So, where were we . . . . . lmao!!

It's good to see the thread survive the efforts to close it down.

Latest news is conflicting reports from Washington about one-on-one talks with Iran to reach an agreement over outstanding issues. It will be welcome news if Obama and the Ayatollahs can reach some kind of agreement that satisfies everyone - the only loser there will be Netanyahu who will have lost his major scare tactic for the forseeable future.

It will be good to get the Iran issue off the table. That will allow us all to focus on the real issues, first and foremost of which is ending the Palestine/Israel conflict permanently. Despite his disappointing first term, Obama will be best placed to take the initiative here and drag Netanyahu into meaningful negotiations with the Palestinians.

So if the US-Iranian impasse is resolved, there may be grounds for some limited optimism that the seemingly interminable Palestine/Israel conflict will be resolved too.

_____________________________

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 1:38:43 AM

Posts: 267
Joined: 9/20/2012
Status: offline

Those talks between the US and Iran will end up in nothing, the US will only agree if Iran will close its nuclear program, Iran will not close 60 years of work just to get the US and Israel happy.

The Israeli/Palestine conflict will only end when Palestine becomes a member of the UN, wich is doubtfull if it will happen.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 1:43:34 AM

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Below is a link to some interesting speculation and analysis on the outcomes of the elections in the US and Israel, and the implications for the 'peace process' Netanyahu and Israel/Palestine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/22/israel-binyamin-netanyahu-mitt-romney

_____________________________

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 2:26:42 AM

Posts: 267
Joined: 9/20/2012
Status: offline

I've watched the debate yesterday but turned it off after a hour, to much lies.
For example, Romney (we see him as a typical american (ignorent and just talking about something where he doesn't know anything about)) said that the US has never supported dictators/dictatorships... well even a pig knows that's bullshit.
Obama said, that Iran said that Israel should be whiped of the map... this is in fact a big lie, and Obama should know that, it was just a propaganda based translation.

And for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, as long as the western gouverments refuse to put pressure on Israel for illegaly occupying Palestinian ground then this will never end, Hamas wants the borders back to the day that they where created, something Israel will never do.
Let me put it this way, as long as Israel can't behave like an adult nation this conflict will lead nowhere...

< Message edited by ermood -- 10/23/2012 2:30:54 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 3:16:35 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

Obama said, that Iran said that Israel should be whiped of the map... this is in fact a big lie, and Obama should know that, it was just a propaganda based translation.

There is no doubt the Iranian President said exactly what you claim he didnt say. It may well have been empty rhetoric for his home audience, but never the less he still said it. To suggest it was a propoganda based translation is stupid.

Ahmeninejad was refused permission to visit one of his close aides in prison last week. It seems internal political conflicts in Iran could well be his undoing. It will be interesting to see which way the Iranian regime move politically if, and I suspect its more like when, Ahmendinejad leaves office.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 3:46:52 AM

Posts: 267
Joined: 9/20/2012
Status: offline

quote:

There is no doubt the Iranian President said exactly what you claim he didnt say

http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-wiped-off-the-map-the-rumor-of-the-century-fabricated-by-the-us-media-to-justify-an-all-out-war-on-iran/21188

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

So... he said what? and who is stupid now?

quote:

Ahmeninejad was refused permission to visit one of his close aides in prison last week. It seems internal political conflicts in Iran could well be his undoing. It will be interesting to see which way the Iranian regime move politically if, and I suspect its more like when, Ahmendinejad leaves office.

Do you actually know how the gouverment in Iran works?
Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doesn't have much power, almost all power is in the hands of supreme leader Ali Khamenei.

True he was refused for to visit Tehran's Evin Prison, but he doesn't even has to ask premision for it.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/22/268190/ahmadinejad-repeats-prison-visit-request/

< Message edited by ermood -- 10/23/2012 3:50:54 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 3:57:40 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Ermood........ Get a grip and read the link I gave you.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 3:59:20 AM

Posts: 267
Joined: 9/20/2012
Status: offline

You didn't gave me any link....

As for you, read mine... maybe you learn something;)

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 4:25:12 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

So... he said what? and who is stupid now?

Ermood . . .
You say Ahmininejad did not say "Israel must be wiped off the map." Instead he said: "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," quoting the Imam. And you claim there is a distinction between the two? One is just as threatening as the other.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 4:30:06 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

And for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, as long as the western gouverments refuse to put pressure on Israel for illegaly occupying Palestinian ground then this will never end, Hamas wants the borders back to the day that they where created, something Israel will never do.
Let me put it this way, as long as Israel can't behave like an adult nation this conflict will lead nowhere...

Ermood . . .
This conflict is leading exactly to where Israeli Nationalism wants it to go: total domination and occupation of Samaria and Judea by Israel.

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 4:37:33 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Below is a link to some interesting speculation and analysis on the outcomes of the elections in the US and Israel, and the implications for the 'peace process' Netanyahu and Israel/Palestine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/22/israel-binyamin-netanyahu-mitt-romney

Tweake . . .
I understand the nuances regarding how Obama will be free to act in a second term. However, last night's debate was shameful pandering by both candidates to Israel and her supporters. Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 7:32:56 AM

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Not sure if you are right about that influence from the Clintons, ML. Hillary and Barack might get along but I think that is as far as it goes.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 8:05:03 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Not sure if you are right about that influence from the Clintons, ML. Hillary and Barack might get along but I think that is as far as it goes.

I am not talking about friendship or getting along. I was referring to political alliance, D. At the moment Barack needs Bubba, and if Barack is re-elected Hillary will need him in 2016.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 9:29:02 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism.

Vince...Obama is influenced alright...but not by the Clintons...but by the American people both Republican and Democrat...Anyone...any side… negotiating in the area of the Middle East had better realize this.

I believe the American people want a just settlement but they are nowhere near abandoning Israel in their fight for survival.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 9:36:58 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ermood

You didn't gave me any link....

As for you, read mine... maybe you learn something;)

Correct, I thought I had added the link but hadnt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20024287

(in reply to ermood)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 10:26:51 AM

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Obama is heavily influenced by the Clintons. He will not jeapordise Hillary's candidacy in 2016 by showing a lack of support for Israeli Nationalism.

Vince...Obama is influenced alright...but not by the Clintons...but by the American people both Republican and Democrat...Anyone...any side… negotiating in the area of the Middle East had better realize this.

I believe the American people want a just settlement but they are nowhere near abandoning Israel in their fight for survival.

Butch

Butch . . . .
Israel controls most of the Palestinian land east of the 1967 line. She continues to maintain troops and build settlements on Palestinian land and in East Jerusalem in violation of UN Security Council Resolution #242 adopted in 1967, the Oslo Accords of 1993, and Article #49 of the 4th Geneva Convention. At this point it is really Palestine's fight for survival at stake. Please don't pretend that the "American people" know what a just settlement looks like and what it will take to get there.

For 35 years Israel delayed removing her troops while aggressively building out colonies in the Palestinian sections as a "security" measure. Now that she has the West Bank pretty much under IDF military control the Palestinians are no longer a security threat. That's why Israel has now pivoted her attention to Iran's nuclear program. The meanwhile, she continues the land grab in Samaria and Judea. Bibi is bull shitting us.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 10:40:07 AM

YN

Posts: 699
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

So... he said what? and who is stupid now?

Ermood . . .
You say Ahmininejad did not say "Israel must be wiped off the map." Instead he said: "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," quoting the Imam. And you claim there is a distinction between the two? One is just as threatening as the other.

There is a distinction between a regime change and genocide. The US claims over the hoped result for Iraq is an example.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: Iran VS Israel - 10/23/2012 10:42:54 AM

YN

Posts: 699
Status: offline

The current Israeli president and his platform is unpopular in his nation and there is an election coming the January. Perhaps some of the Israeli saber waving is electioneering rhetoric.

(in reply to YN)

Page: << < prev 14 15 [16] 17 18 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Iran VS Israel

Page: << < prev 14 15 [16] 17 18 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.219