quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

To boot, science itself is based on a number of beliefs, some of them untestable, the rest merely unproven. For instance, the belief in the existence of an objective reality.
— Aswad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Descartes is philosophy not science in any case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

"I think therefor I am" seems to validate the concept of objective reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So I don't have to believe in the existence of your statement - or even you, yourself, Aswad? Maybe there is a God after all!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
There's nothing to say you need to accept my existence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Scientifically grounded atheism is a minimalist belief system, with most forms of atheism having varying degrees of additional beliefs piled on top of some of these basics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"In science, Descartes discarded tradition and to an extent supported the same method as Francis Bacon, but with emphasis on rationalization and logic rather than upon experiences. In physical theory his doctrines were formulated as a compromise between his devotion to Roman Catholicism and his commitment to the scientific method, which met opposition in the church officials of the day. Mathematics was his greatest interest; building upon the work of others, he originated the Cartesian coordinates and Cartesian curves; he is often said to be the founder of analytical geometry. To algebra he contributed the treatment of negative roots and the convention of exponent notation. He made numerous advances in optics, such as his study of the reflection and refraction of light. He wrote a text on physiology, and he also worked in psychology; he contended that emotion was finally physiological at base and argued that the control of the physical expression of emotion would control the emotions themselves. His chief work on psychology is in his Traité des passions de l'âme (1649)."

http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/people/descartes-rene-major-contributions-to-science.html

I don't know, Moonie, some of that looks as though it might crop up in science lessons. We didn't cover analytical geometry or optics in my philosophy classes, anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

"In science, Descartes discarded tradition and to an extent supported the same method as Francis Bacon, but with emphasis on rationalization and logic rather than upon experiences. In physical theory his doctrines were formulated as a compromise between his devotion to Roman Catholicism and his commitment to the scientific method, which met opposition in the church officials of the day. Mathematics was his greatest interest; building upon the work of others, he originated the Cartesian coordinates and Cartesian curves; he is often said to be the founder of analytical geometry. To algebra he contributed the treatment of negative roots and the convention of exponent notation. He made numerous advances in optics, such as his study of the reflection and refraction of light. He wrote a text on physiology, and he also worked in psychology; he contended that emotion was finally physiological at base and argued that the control of the physical expression of emotion would control the emotions themselves. His chief work on psychology is in his Traité des passions de l'âme (1649)."

http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/people/descartes-rene-major-contributions-to-science.html

I don't know, Moonie, some of that looks as though it might crop up in science lessons. We didn't cover analytical geometry or optics in my philosophy classes, anyway.

Most of Descarte's mathematics is relevant to modern geometry.
"Cogito ergo sum", on the other hand was proposed in his Principles Of Philosophy, which is not a text on mathematics. (It isn't even very reasoned philosophy, at least in that case...)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Did someone speak? I could have sworn that I heard a voice carried in on the cold North Wind, together with a faint rustling of a beard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Funny, I've always thought something similar about theism: there's an intuition of some kind of 'higher force' . . . but there's nearly always some vast edifice or another built on top of that intuition. 'More is always better' for many on all sides, apparently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Atheists do have beliefs... but theirs are founded in science. Without a scientific reason, they do not have any belief/faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yep.. and? So your beliefs arent founded in Science? Are you really wanting to argue that?

Come on!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Did someone speak? I could have sworn that I heard a voice carried in on the cold North Wind, together with a faint rustling of a beard.

The North Wind whistles quite pleasantly at times:

A Succubus in Rapture (link)

IWYW,
— Aswad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yet there are people who will say "When I pray, my prayers are answered" as proof of their belief.

When an atheist claims "When I turn on the light switch, I know the lights will come on through repetitive times it turning on before"

There is no difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yet there are people who will say "When I pray, my prayers are answered" as proof of their belief.

When an atheist claims "When I turn on the light switch, I know the lights will come on through repetitive times it turning on before"

There is no difference.

quote:

(a) In prayer, at least as I (mis)understand it, God is an independent actor who may grant the request or not. The electrical system is not. Assuming everything's wired correctly, it will provide light without any decision-making of its own.

quote:

(b) I don't know anyone whose prayers are answered with the regularity of flicking on a light switch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
I don't know anyone whose prayers are answered with the regularity of flicking on a light switch.