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RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 7:14:19 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Then why not start a thread on gun control?

Because no one listens to a responsible gun control discussion absent a fresh batch of dead bodies.
That's disgusting,but that's the fucking truth.
Start such a discussion and you are attacked from multiple sides,the idiots who cling to the illusion that an armed populace can resist a tyrannical government in the 21st century,the assholes who believe that more not less guns are the answer and than you have the strict constitutionalists who believes that the Founding Fathers bequeathed to him/her the right to cradle any weapon they please in their sweaty little hands and as patriotic Americans they will resist to the death(theirs or much more likely some other innocent shot senselessly)any attempt to regulate these tools of mayhem.
20 children are dead and I am sick about it......but I'm also fucking mad.
I could go further and describe how I feel about my fellow posters who come here and trumpet the sacred Second....but what the fuck,I don't need the gold bordered letter.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 7:18:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im all for gun control. I am not all for making ownership illegal.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 7:22:29 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		My dad said a guy in china snuck on campus and attacked 27 kids with a knife before being being disarmed, so it's not simply happening because such easy access to guns.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 7:44:14 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Piers Morgan has a very interesting discussion going on right now.

First, thanks Lucy and tazzy.

Is the Piers show where he is interviewing the two psychologists? I think I saw that one a little while ago. They kind of put him in his place at the end, though - was interesting.

I'll only say this about gun control - all the laws in the world aren't going to stop bad people from doing bad things. After all, it's illegal to shoot up schools, isn't it? Criminals aren't going through the gun registration process anyway, now, are they? I really don't know what the answers are - my first thought is focus on mental health....what drives a person to do such acts of violence in the first place?

It's coming out that the shooter had mental health issues and the guns he used were registered to his mother.

On that note, off I go to see the Mister. Might be offline for awhile.

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(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:10:13 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im all for gun control. I am not all for making ownership illegal.

Tazzy you are more than welcome to use your incredible web savy to find one instance where I called for the criminalization of gun ownership.


Or you can take my word for it and save yourself the time.
Gun control,sensible gun control has nothing to do with confiscation of legally held weapons.

But I would like to point out that these were all "legally held" weapons.
Which again falls at the feet of the gun lobby,there is currently the technology available that would make it impossible for anyone other than the owner of the weapon from using that weapon.
But that would impact ,negatively ,on the value of the weapon.....selling such weapons would be,by necessity a tad difficult...so we can't have that.
This also calls into question of just how "responsible" do we REQUIRE gun owners to be.This woman lived(as far as I know ) with a grown child who,from all accounts had mental issues...and yet her guns were apparently not secured.
How many other "responsible" gun owners do we need to fear ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:12:25 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

My dad said a guy in china snuck on campus and attacked 27 kids with a knife before being being disarmed, so it's not simply happening because such easy access to guns.

Yeah that stories true....it's also true that 22 children were injured in the attack.


Yes,thats right,injured ....as in NOT DEAD.
There parents,hopefully get to nurse these children back to health,get to worry what effect the attack will have on the children......do you think the parents in Conn.would jump at such a chance ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:13:34 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Piers Morgan has a very interesting discussion going on right now.

First, thanks Lucy and tazzy.

Is the Piers show where he is interviewing the two psychologists? I think I saw that one a little while ago. They kind of put him in his place at the end, though - was interesting.

I'll only say this about gun control - all the laws in the world aren't going to stop bad people from doing bad things. After all, it's illegal to shoot up schools, isn't it? Criminals aren't going through the gun registration process anyway, now, are they? I really don't know what the answers are - my first thought is focus on mental health....what drives a person to do such acts of violence in the first place?

It's coming out that the shooter had mental health issues and the guns he used were registered to his mother.

On that note, off I go to see the Mister. Might be offline for awhile.

Yes that's the Pierce show,but it is what comes after that that is interesting.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:16:19 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry Tazzy,I can't get on board with that.I was told the same bullshit after the Colorado shooting.
I was asked to at least give it a day for grieving.
It was bullshit than, it was bullshit earlier,this is P and R,this was a gun violence slaughter on innocents.
If this isn't the place,if this isn't the time....when do we ,in this country ,get the courage to discuss the utter lunacy of "unfettered" and the rest of the Second ?
If I recall correctly, that happened to be My supposed bullshit.

I find that kind of odd since you brought up that interviewing the kid after the tragedy was inappropriate. Like you, I didn't think it was really the right thing to do. Almost like vultures swooping in. Which is exactly what both sides of the gun debate do to promote their own agenda. Use other people's grief and tragedy for their own ends.

People sit and say what's going on in the country that things like this can happen. Maybe one of those things is that we don't care about things like common decency. Don't we say that when the Westboro Church is slinging their mud at funerals? That it disgusts so many people because they are voicing their opinions on issues when a family is trying to bury their dead? All because it gets them better (meaning more exposure) press coverage.

No, I am not saying that the Second Amendment issue is the kind of vile hate speech of WBC. It's the timing of it. There's just something messed up about it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry Lucy,I was told the same thing after Colorado,I will be told the same thing after the next tragedy at who knows where.
Believe me I have spent most of the day wiping tears from my eyes.....but along with my grief,along with my unimaginable confusion,there is anger.
Unbelievable anger,anger at the political paralysis ,anger at the public apathy and anger at the criminally negligent complicity of the manufacturers and the lobbyists of the firearm industry in this country.
Yeah, I get that. People just process things in different ways. Since the gun issue is one that is important to you, I'd image you would be directing some anger that way. I'll even give you that you are probably looking at the bigger picture. I go the other way and think about how devastated the parents of twenty children are right now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Piers Morgan has a very interesting discussion going on right now.
First time I shut CNN off all day. Why even interview the man with the dissenting opinion if you're not going to let him speak? Shouting down someone who has a different opinion than yours on an issue is not journalism. It's being a hack.





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(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:37:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Tazzy you are more than welcome to use your incredible web savy to find one instance where I called for the criminalization of gun ownership.


Didnt say you did babe. But thats where this is dissolve too. Just wanted to get my point in there early

quote:

But I would like to point out that these were all "legally held" weapons.


And some should not be legal. Hence the gun control part.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:42:59 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


Posts: 958
Joined: 6/4/2012
Status: offline 		I had to shut the news off too. Seeing those little children clinging to their parents and sobbing knowing so many small children died there was too much. I do not want my little girl to know what happened either so we watched christmas movies instead.

Someone posted on facebook that USA today is saying the mother had said her son had aspergers and a personality disorder and he was getting out of control.

The school had the same security most schools have with cameras and needing to be buzzed in but it didnt save those children. I struggle with feeling unsafe everywhere these days.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:46:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		He walked up... he was known to the school because of who his mother was.... why would anyone expect him to commit this crime

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Moonlightmaddnes)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 8:52:58 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry Tazzy,I can't get on board with that.I was told the same bullshit after the Colorado shooting.
I was asked to at least give it a day for grieving.
It was bullshit than, it was bullshit earlier,this is P and R,this was a gun violence slaughter on innocents.
If this isn't the place,if this isn't the time....when do we ,in this country ,get the courage to discuss the utter lunacy of "unfettered" and the rest of the Second ?
If I recall correctly, that happened to be My supposed bullshit.
Not just "your bullshit"I got a lot of it that day from more than one quater[color=#330000]
I find that kind of odd since you brought up that interviewing the kid after the tragedy was inappropriate. Like you, I didn't think it was really the right thing to do. Almost like vultures swooping in. Which is exactly what both sides of the gun debate do to promote their own agenda. Use other people's grief and tragedy for their own ends.
No,what I found inappropriate was interviewing the child,What that has to do with my remarks here I fail to see,as far as I know we are all,or at least we are supposed to be,adults.If there are any children in the room ,perhaps you should ask them to leave ? As far as "both sides of the gun debate" crack,I don't consider my POV on this matter an agenda,as a matter of fact I find that characterization highly offensive,highly. This is not an "agenda" to me,this is a deeply held conviction,this is a bone weary tiredness from witnessing these tragedies,this is an unspeakable anger at the apathy of my fellow citizens and the paralysis of the elected
People sit and say what's going on in the country that things like this can happen. Maybe one of those things is that we don't care about things like common decency. Don't we say that when the Westboro Church is slinging their mud at funerals? That it disgusts so many people because they are voicing their opinions on issues when a family is trying to bury their dead? All because it gets them better (meaning more exposure) press coverage.

No, I am not saying that the Second Amendment issue is the kind of vile hate speech of WBC. It's the timing of it. There's just something messed up about it.
But while not saying that you are certainly linking the two,an argument that you used back than following the Colorado tragedy.Let me ask you something,doesn't the irony of arguing this same position after another gun violence tragedy even occur to you?[color=#330000]
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sorry Lucy,I was told the same thing after Colorado,I will be told the same thing after the next tragedy at who knows where.
Believe me I have spent most of the day wiping tears from my eyes.....but along with my grief,along with my unimaginable confusion,there is anger.
Unbelievable anger,anger at the political paralysis ,anger at the public apathy and anger at the criminally negligent complicity of the manufacturers and the lobbyists of the firearm industry in this country.
Yeah, I get that. People just process things in different ways. Since the gun issue is one that is important to you, I'd image you would be directing some anger that way. I'll even give you that you are probably looking at the bigger picture. I go the other way and think about how devastated the parents of twenty children are right now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Piers Morgan has a very interesting discussion going on right now.
First time I shut CNN off all day. Why even interview the man with the dissenting opinion if you're not going to let him speak? Shouting down someone who has a different opinion than yours on an issue is not journalism. It's being a hack.





Sorry folks,all the time I've been here and I still can't do the boxes,my responce to LP's reply to me is the black text in the above
again sorry.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 12/14/2012 8:57:30 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 9:02:47 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I've had it,I just want to shut this day off.....goodnight all.
According to CNN the police have said that an official victims list will be released tomorrow


Kaitlin Roig,we will all come to know her in the coming days,an amazing young woman who was quite the hero today as she tried to keep her young students calm during this tragedy.
Thank You Kaitlin,you are an amazing young woman and one hell of a teacher.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 9:11:13 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I am going to point out something that seems to be missed.

Speaking from my experience in the army, a few things that could have, while not prevented, but minimized the body count is rather obvious.

For the body count to be this high, the shooter had to have large capacity magazines in his weapons. Your average shooter cannot change mags fast enough to account for some many casualties in such a short time.

Either he had large capacity mags or he was a very well trained and experienced shooter, which has not been released yet, but I am curious as to which.

Now for something that I am loath to suggest, but considering how many weapons in the US are illegally bought and sold on a daily basis, soft targets such as schools, malls, train stations, etc need metal detectors at the entrances AND armed security.

The next time, it may not be a deranged or pissed off private citizen doing the shooting.

I suggest you do a google search on Beslan school hostage crisis.

Those were not crazed citizens pissed off about something and taking a legally bought rifle to a school.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 9:20:58 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

The school had the same security most schools have with cameras and needing to be buzzed in but it didnt save those children. I struggle with feeling unsafe everywhere these days.

no metal detectors?


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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 9:38:56 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The ONLY schools with metal detectors in the US are in the inner city were there is a high rate of gang violence.

Please see my previous post on today and what could happen tomorrow.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 9:51:12 PM   
Moonlightmaddnes


Posts: 958
Joined: 6/4/2012
Status: offline 		Local news interviewed the city closest to me police chief. He said they already had an officer designated to the high school and have already considered adding one to the elementary school after todays shooting.


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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/14/2012 10:00:10 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

Local news interviewed the city closest to me police chief. He said they already had an officer designated to the high school and have already considered adding one to the elementary school after todays shooting.




Isn't that a little like closing the stable door after the horse escapes?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Moonlightmaddnes)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 12:05:42 AM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69
Now for the adults in the room: we desperately need a serious discussion about gun control in this country. The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago - no one alive then could foresee the technology of today. As so many have stated about various topics here: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is one definition of insanity. Based on that, the US has been insane on many issues for a very long time.


Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts and suggestions (and anyone else's) on this topic? If you could enact whatever level of gun control in the US tomorrow what form would it take? Banning all high capacity magazines? Banning all semi-automatic rifles? Semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines? Banning semi-automatic weapons entirely? Banning all private firearms ownership? What do you think needs to be done? it probably really doesn't matter in the long run. Once we start down that slope it'll be hard for the gun control folks to find a convenient stopping point.

Even as a staunch gun bearing advocate I can see where we are headed after the horrible events of yesterday. Gun control will be coming in sweeping fashion. It's only a question of how much and how deep. There have been 61 mass shootings in the US since Columbine and there is one common thread in all of them and it's not the guns or the victims or the venue - it's mental health. We've never been serious about diagnosing and treating mental health issues in the United States. We drug them and send them on their way. Instead of facing it and dealing with it we're just going to repeal the 2nd Amendment and take away everyone's gun. That will solve the problem. Yes, firearms are readily available in our country. So is alcohol and it does a lot of damage, too. I have a feeling that sweeping gun control will go over about as well as prohibition did in the US.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Elementary school shooting. - 12/15/2012 12:20:08 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Liz, that is being addressed here.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 120
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