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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 12:37:22 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
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From: Houston, TX
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It occurs more with female dominants because of supply and demand. Simple.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 1:03:42 AM

HarryVanWinkle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Ok. So I went to collarme, took down all search perimeters to "any" in America. Males, females, Dom, sub, 18 – 99, straight, gay, ALL…
and then put the word "tribute" in as a search term
32 returns
Out of 294 thousand registered users, only 32 used the word "tribute"
That’s about 1%
6 were male.
1 was a couple.
The rest were female.
Now, there’s the facts.
Here’s my assumptions and guesses.
I didn’t read the profiles, but I would lay money on the bet that at least some of those profiles say "I’m not interested in tributes" or "I’m not interested in Dommes looking for tribute."

So, in essence, I totally agree with Jessica.
This seems like something that is talked about more than something that is actually happening.

Funny, I went to the homepage and searched for the word "tribute" too. I searched only Female Dominants. I got 212 returns, and that's only among women who have been onsite since last August. I then searched the word "pro" and got 404 returns onsite since May of 2003. I then searched the word "Money" and got 278 returns onsite since October 2004. I then searched the word "Financial" and got 251 returns onsite since last December. I then stopped searching because it's bed time.

Granted, some of these returns turned up than once. And, no doubt, some of them are completely innocent, such as your examples. None the less, being a heterosexual switch, I tend to cruise all of the female profiles and I too see a LOT of Dominas who expect money.

This is not, by the way, an anti pro-domina rant on my part. While I haven't patronized a pro-domina in decades and probably never will again, I have nothing against them and have no problem with them advertising on this or any other site.

I am curious how you got the figure of 294,000 registered users. I've never been able to find it.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 5:53:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace
this is something that's been randomly nagging at me for a bit.

why is it that financial/gift tributes seem to be a phenomena that surround female dominants? i have seen very few male dominant profiles that demand or even mention tributes, and many more female ones. can someone shed some light on this for me?

The gender stereotypes that we have in our world today still perpetuates the idea that the man should give direct financial support to the female. There are many female submissives who will not be with a male dominant who does not pay for them and their time together, though it is usually through food, travel and other expenses.

As well, male doms tend to prefer expressions of devotion in other ways. Instead of ordering the sub to give them money or gifts, they will order the sub to dress a certain way and expect sex afterwards. It's still having expectations of the other person- it's just one is less obviously monetarily related.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 6:29:14 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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Someone gave a great reply to this on the financial bondage thread

quote:

Money is power. It gives you the ability to be independant, to make decisons about you life, to move on or stay.

Men have tradtionaly made more money, and run the finances, thus held the power over woman. Strip that away by having financial bondage/domination and the woman holds the power over them.

Blessed Be
Gem

Leaving my thoughts out of this because this is not an issue that will ever be satisfactorily resolved among the greedy, the generous and the cheapskates. The only thing I am comfortable with is that a decision made by an adult of sound mind should stand as long as it doesn't affect me. M

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 7:29:51 AM

MistressTheaZ

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Agree - supply and demand, and heavily leveraged by opportunists, as well.

You might be surprised - Lifestyle profile or not - how many requests come in from out-of-towners, part-timers, roleplayers, and the like who don't want a relationship or friendship and instead offer tribute for a play session. It is easier for them to seek NSA, and they are happy to pay for it, without any solicitation. Some just enjoy feeling used, as well.

A great many may be pros, but I do know some Women who ask for some sort of token to prove sincerity when contacting them and asking to serve r/t. It needn't be a sum of money or the like, but when such a large number of people contact you over a period of time, some use this as a measuring system to separate the serious from the wankers. *shrug*

I don't have a problem with Professional Domination; I was formerly a ProDomme Myself. However, I do feel that one should represent themselves honestly, and certainly any sub seeking should do his research if a ProDomme is what he is seeking.

About Male Dominants seeking tribute or tokens, it was expressed already better than how I can relate how a give-and-take is exchanged, with individual interests and motivations guiding what form these symbols may take. Just to note, however - I know a number of Leathermen who do Top for money, and probably an equal number of gay male switchable/bottoms who ask money, gifts and service of playmates.

~Thea

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 7:41:30 AM

NINASHARP

Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lisa1978

Because female submissives can find play partners for free. There are a lot of pro Dommes that are just using market demands as a way to make money and/or support their chosen way of life.

For the way more serious Dommes it also is very much a difference between man and woman. Men are use to taking care of the woman. For some the financial exchange is an important part of the power exchange. I believe though this type is a very small minority.

I think that female dominants can find subs to play for free as well. I don't know any prodomme personally, who doesn't take WIITWD, as serious as a non pro. In fact I find that the ones I do know, go to extreme measures to make sure what they do is highly regarded for their reputation would be on the line. That isn't always the case in the ones who aren't in it for just the money.

Sure there are those who want an easy way to make money. But that isn't just prodommes, anyone who profits from a fantasy, whether its erotic dancing or porn or selling fetish items, can be seen the same way. I've seen bad goods being sold for high prices, I've seen amature porn passing off as 4 star, and I've seen and known strippers who take off their clothes just because the can make a few extra dollars from exposing their body to a guy looking for a fantasy image. The difference, IMO, Prodommes can be a little more selective about what they do, and who they do it with.

I've seen first hand both Doms and Subs, pros and non pro's being taken advantage of. I for one have had my share of male and female subs who tried to take advantage of my generousity, and they weren't paying clients, either.

Nina

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 7:49:49 AM

NINASHARP

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Fast reply..

I've seen a lot of those questioning the word tribute. Having been there, done that, charging a fee for time and service, didn't make me any less selective, it didn't mean someone could buy their way in, and the word tribute is used in place of fees, because of the legal aspects of it or the logistics of exchanging a fee in what might be viewed as deviant sexual behavior which is against the law, in most states.

There are many skilled professional dominatrix out there, and for each one there are a dozen sites to market on. The mods of this board have already said, that this site is for everyone not excluding pros. So why does anyone really care if there are prodommes or prosubs, here? You don't want others to be taken advantage of, but the twist is that there are those who do take advantage of others, in guise of the word dominant, and submissive Yeah, I've seen subs take advantage of doms, too. surprised?

IMHO, and I've said this before, it isn't cheap to have a fully equipped dungeon, buy all the toys, buy all the exotic leather attire and to keep the lights on. And the discretion for someone who doesn't want to have anything more than an hour of kinky fun, without sex, and without strings. I did well when I was doing professional scenes, but after the over head costs including the marketing, I probably make more money now in a regular job.

Pros are taking responsibility for what they do, they stick there neck out to meet the fantasy needs of others, and they are up front about the costs or "tribute." I have yet to see a thread about stripping, (or PC, erotic dancers), or any other adult entertainment service which is also profiting from selling fantasies or images to others who are willing to pay for it. So if you are a stripper, can you be selective on who you give a lap dance to? Yes, I've known women in this industry personally, and see them grovel at the sight of a fist of dollar bills to fill up their G-strings. Why is it always the pros to get the heat for what they do?

And just for the record, if I was to submit again, I'd not rule out going to a pro, and pay for a few hours of being topped. Just maybe, I'd rather get tied up and get my ass spanked for a while then to make a commitment to a dom that might not work out anyway and give me a jaded view on submission. If you ask around, references from pro's are easy to find, and I figure there is nothing in life that doesn't come with some kind of price attached.

JMO, doesn't mean its the one true way.

Nina

< Message edited by NINASHARP -- 6/19/2006 7:50:40 AM >

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 8:08:02 AM

Calandra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1

tributes are usually of monetary value. My submissive male friend has had all 3 of HIS choice of female Domme request these. So, definately something that is actually occurring for him. All 3 denied and refuted that they were proDomme.

my take on that? : = a form of prostituion. Which is called pro-Domming. and each to their own.

But to say you are not a professional, and then ask for a 'gift' or 'tribute' is a tad dishonest, and therefor not my personal cup of tea. Especially, had he sought a professional Domme, with a researched good reputation, he'd probably of experienced a better outcome for the play session too.

little1

I'd like a little clarification of your thoughts, please...
I do not accept tributes however I was a Pro Domme for five years... I did not seek clients on personals sites, instead I was on several Domina advertising boards for that purpose. I kept "personal" and "professional" separate (I never had sexual contact, by the way so even AS a pro I was never a prostitute any more than a gynecologist is). With this in mind...

Do you feel that a Dominant woman is wrong to sometimes expect flowers, to be taken to dinner, to have small gifts on her birthday, or special occasions, or when the slave is perhaps asking to be forgiven for a real (not made-up) infraction?

Even in vanilla dating over the years, society seems to groom men to "impress" or "woo" women with material things that will garner him "favor".

When I meet a prospective slave I always expect to pay for the meal - if he offers, I allow it because I DO want to encourage his willingness to give (not monetarily, since I do not see money as separate from time, effort or even emotional investment - money represents time that the slave spent working for someone to earn it, if he spend it on me to pay for dinner, then I figure he worked a couple of hours somewhere to be able to provide that comfort, nothing more)

Why is it wrong for a Domme to ask a slave to do domestic service, dress in certain ways, spend hours writing in a journal, etc (all of which takes time or money or both) but the instant she allows him(god forbid EXPECTS him) to pay for dinner or roses, she's a horrid person....

I don't understand the thinking behind this idea... can you explain your views?

By the way... as a skilled Domina I take time to plan scenes, spend money to set them up, and expend effort to carry them out. At times I am simply exhausted afterwards... if the male should be appreciated for anything they contribute (financially, or otherwise) shouldn't the Dominant also be appreciated for HER contributions? (I'm speaking within a relationship, not a pro session - in that case, her fee would be compensation)

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 9:10:40 AM

fullofgrace

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i guess i should clarify...my original question was referring to female dominants who were not pro (or whose profiles did not express that) and who -demanded- money or gifts. my perception also tends to be skewed to the 24/7 end of things. i know my original post wasn't very clear on that. maybe it is that the category that i was targeting are simply prodommes who are just not honest about the fact that they are prodommes, as little1 mentioned in her post?

to me, buying my Dominant gifts might be a tribute, but He doesn't demand them...i also don't see paying part of expenses for toys or rent (if you live with someone), etc. as falling under this category.

however, all the posts in regards to this, and the ones in regards to prodommes, have been very informative.

maybe it's a difference in dynamic of the domme/male sub versus dom/female sub relationship? calandra said, "if the male should be appreciated for anything they contribute (financially, or otherwise) shouldn't the Dominant also be appreciated for HER contributions? (I'm speaking within a relationship, not a pro session - in that case, her fee would be compensation)" i agree with this...however, i guess i don't realize the difference between that dynamic in a domme/male sub relationship as being different from that of mine. i buy gifts for my Dominant without His demanding them. i pay part of the expenses for toys, etc. He buys dinner when we go out, but that's more of a cultural gender-specific thing for Him, and on special occasions, i take Him out to dinner. to me, that is different than demanding gifts of items or money. the amount of work He puts into things is as much as any female dominant might, and the service i give Him as His submissive is no more valuable than that of any male. this is my understanding of how many dom/female sub relationships work. i'm wondering why the idea that the dominant half of the relationship demands to be compensated over and above that seems to be more prevalent when the dominant half is female. (i am not by any means accusing all female dominants of this, or anything like that.)

< Message edited by fullofgrace -- 6/19/2006 9:18:54 AM >

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 9:39:42 AM

Lashra

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Basically because most male Doms know if they advertised openly for financial tribute from subs they'd be torn a new asshole by alot of people. It's considered *rude* for men to accept money from woman in our society. People would view it as her taking care of Him and in a D/s relationship that can't happen or it upsets the dynamic. So they instead take on other forms of tribute even though some may not label or recognize it as such.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder as to what you will make of it. Some find it disgusting, some find it hot, others like myself are neutral.

If you don't want to deal with a Domme who asks for financial tribute its simple DON'T! Contrary to popular belief not ALL Domme's are out for money. The Domme/sub relationship in most cases is just as beautiful and real as the Dom/sub.

~Lashra

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 9:50:32 AM

lisa1978

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Tribute has become a code word for money or a really nice gift I can use as a condition that I will play with you.

If a man or a woman want to give a gift to their dominant like flowers or a bottle of wine, take them out to dinner before a play session or if a relationship of some type forms and buying them toys or some expensive things to show there grattitude then that is a nice and proper thing to do.

To demand a gift, tribute, money as a condition of playing or starting a relationship is what it is. A barter of services. Being selective is not a loophole. You are a pro. Maybe not full time or doing it for large monetary reasons but you are a pro.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 10:50:41 AM

RavenMuse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston
It occurs more with female dominants because of supply and demand. Simple.

Not quite as 'simple' as that IMO, there are several factors....

Many Men, myself included where raised to view the one who is paying, as the one in control. If I take a young lady out for the evening, she maybe the one sent to the bar to fetch the drinks, but I will have given her the money to buy them with. When I see a male dom (Yep, no caps there, not a typo!) getting his girl to run around paying for everything, I don't tend to see a Dom, I see a pathetic leach. Let them get on with it so long as I am not asked what I think of it!

Funny though, I don't have as much problem when it is a male sub paying for a FemDom, possibly another part of my upbringing in the Male being seen as the 'provider'

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 11:13:00 AM

NINASHARP

Posts: 295
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

i guess i should clarify...my original question was referring to female dominants who were not pro (or whose profiles did not express that) and who -demanded- money or gifts. my perception also tends to be skewed to the 24/7 end of things. i know my original post wasn't very clear on that. maybe it is that the category that i was targeting are simply prodommes who are just not honest about the fact that they are prodommes, as little1 mentioned in her post?

You are correct, those who expect a tribute for their time, use of toys, dungeon, and are really prodommes, should put it up front from the get go, and as pointed out, many do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

why is it that financial/gift tributes seem to be a phenomena that surround female dominants? i have seen very few male dominant profiles that demand or even mention tributes, and many more female ones. can someone shed some light on this for me?

The OP asked why more female dommes require tribute than males in their profile.

My impression from most of the prodoming scene is that pro's also take on personal slaves that are not required to pay tribute, and the dynamics are the same as any other M/s relationship. As Calandra stated, personal subs, would be separate from paying ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

to me, buying my Dominant gifts might be a tribute, but He doesn't demand them...i also don't see paying part of expenses for toys or rent (if you live with someone), etc. as falling under this category.

however, all the posts in regards to this, and the ones in regards to prodommes, have been very informative.

maybe it's a difference in dynamic of the domme/male sub versus dom/female sub relationship? calandra said, "if the male should be appreciated for anything they contribute (financially, or otherwise) shouldn't the Dominant also be appreciated for HER contributions? (I'm speaking within a relationship, not a pro session - in that case, her fee would be compensation)" i agree with this...however, i guess i don't realize the difference between that dynamic in a domme/male sub relationship as being different from that of mine. i buy gifts for my Dominant without His demanding them. i pay part of the expenses for toys, etc. He buys dinner when we go out, but that's more of a cultural gender-specific thing for Him, and on special occasions, i take Him out to dinner. to me, that is different than demanding gifts of items or money. the amount of work He puts into things is as much as any female dominant might, and the service i give Him as His submissive is no more valuable than that of any male. this is my understanding of how many dom/female sub relationships work. i'm wondering why the idea that the dominant half of the relationship demands to be compensated over and above that seems to be more prevalent when the dominant half is female. (i am not by any means accusing all female dominants of this, or anything like that.)

No not at all, and its not at all a one way street. As a Domme, I have taken on subs, and they have lived with me, while I supported them financially, they had their own room, they were not required to work, or pay any bills, unless they wanted to do so and even then, if they worked it was their money to do with as they pleased. On the flip side, I have also served and given gifts to both my former Masters to use as they wish on myself or others. In my current personal 24/7 M/s relationship, I am giving much more financially because I am able to the moment, and if the tables were turned I would expect that he would do the same, not because we play together, but because we live together and sleep together, and we are more than room mates.

I have never been supported by a sub or dom, although to be honest I have taken a loan once, but have paid the debt back, and it was negotiated as to how and when it would be paid off. I have given to my subs the things that were for their use only as they have given to me things for their use only. I am generous to a fault. and happen to enjoy taking care of my slave/sub/bottom.. what ever label that wants to be applied, when they need me to do so.

The reason men go to a prodomme instead of searching for a non Pro, is because they can not commit to ownership or a serious relationship with the M/s dynamics, they want discretion (maybe from wives or gf), some are only curious and not really sure if they seek a bdsm lifestyle and the many misguided think it is just about kinky sex.

Nina

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 12:28:22 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

It occurs more with female dominants because of supply and demand. Simple.

I disagree. Using the scarcity against demand idea, all dominant souls of high repute would warrant the unchallenged gesture of tribute, regardless of sex. After all, they are indeed rare to come by, no matter the orientation.

But traditional culture and biology ultimately do play a part in the matter. Viable females are not scarce at all, but the instinctual internal dialog of male sex drive and the female's slick exploitation of it is what allows them the illusion of a supply and demand dynamic. Any profiteer in the sex industry will tell you how reliable male desire can be; the fortunes of marketeers, club owners, pornographers, prostitutes and pro dommes have been built upon its very broad back.

Quality submissives, I'm sure you will agree, are a rarity as well. It can be said even more so regarding slaves. Despite this truth, many dominant females would scoff at the idea they should sacrifice any material gain or time to seduce them, for seemingly by virtue of the wisdom inherent in their biology, they are well versed in the matters of desire and power: be seen and make others come to you.

"Supply and demand" is clever, smarmy marketing rhetoric that covers up the act of cashing in on the base reality of the way our two sexes interact with each other. At its core this philosophy is willfully disingenuous in that is degrades the worth of the male and gives a self-styled boost of value to the sisterhood supporting this idea. It is nothing more than a baseless ego trip.

< Message edited by amayos -- 6/19/2006 1:02:16 PM >

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 12:36:52 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

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OK.. odd person out here. I prefer dutch... living in my own home... paying my own bills. Paying my own way. I don't even like it when we out and stop for a drink. I will usually pay for my own. Now I like being pampered as well. Spoiled...somewhat. And I love to return the pampering and spoiling. But if I feel it's expected... I will step back. The only requirement I have when being courted... is that said dom.. have a job or if retired...a hobby.. that gives us time apart.. personal space....not so that he has a paycheck to pay for everything.. just the things he wants and needs.. not what i want or need. I can do that on my own.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 12:59:50 PM

MsKatHouston

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amayos and RavenMuse:

When I say supply and demand I am not referring in any way to all subs and doms nor am I taking into consideration pros. I am referring specifically to the OP and in response to why there are MORE fem doms who require it than male doms, fem subs, switches, etc. I am not making a commentary that fem doms all deserve or ask for tribute or whether it is right or wrong when they do. Obviously there are those of us who do not ask for tribute or monetary compensation. There are also pros who are up front wih it and provide a service.

It is supply and demand. There are more male subs looking for fem doms than there are fem doms. There are more male subs who are willing to tribute to female doms than any other grouping...as is seen over and over. Because of this, some women will take advantage of this and make it a requirement for play...all play. Sometimes this makes the male sub willing to tribute to a dom in order to get some play.

If male subs were not willing to tribute to these non pro dominants, then we would likely see a decrease in the number of fem doms requiring it for play.

I was not making any judgments on right or wrong in the practice just my opinion as to why it occurs more in the first place, as asked in the OP. For me, I don't require tribute but when in a relationship, of course it is nice to have someone you care about give you a special gift just as it is nice when I give them a special gift. When you have a relationship it's not about money it's about connecting and caring for someone. To each their own.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 1:06:06 PM

RavenMuse

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[ I am referring specifically to the OP and in response to why there are MORE fem doms who require it than male doms, fem subs, switches, etc. [/quote]

and?....My point was there are many other factors, such as diffrent cultural expectations during formative years that would also predispose Male Doms to participate less in 'tribute' situations of that nature.

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 1:08:15 PM

MsKatHouston

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true

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RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 5:08:01 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe
OK.. odd person out here. I prefer dutch... living in my own home... paying my own bills. Paying my own way. I don't even like it when we out and stop for a drink. I will usually pay for my own. Now I like being pampered as well. Spoiled...somewhat. And I love to return the pampering and spoiling. But if I feel it's expected... I will step back

Before you think gold-digger, I'm not (especially since I would require the boy to dig himself), though if you insist, I'd like to care but don't, lol... I'm not terribly comfortable with money matters and perhaps for that reason I've never been attached long term with a man who made as much or more money than I... Nevertheless, I'm from the school that if he is able to provide he should offer to provide period.  If he is not able to provide, I would certainly continue to at least as much as I do now.

I don't do dutch, and any man who suggests or agrees to dutch with me is agreeing to never seeing me again.   I will take a man out somewhere and pay 100% if he is unable to pay; but if he invites me on a date anywhere, I expect him to be able to foot the bill. If he's unable to pay for an expensive date, he can always cook for me, or take me to the park/beach to walk and talk.   I can and have loved very poor men as what I value most is not in his wallet/bank, but I cannot stand cheap man.

I will suggest to the OP that a major reason some women have come to require tribute/money is because there is an overabundance of jerkoffs online who offer the sun and the moon until he cums from having gained her trust/sympathy.   I don't require tribute, but will say that my first slave got my attention because he came to meet me with a $10 gift from Bath and Body works (which I ended up using on him), but thoughtfullness, generosity and consideration mean a great deal to me.    M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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Post #: 39

RE: tributes and gender - 6/19/2006 9:32:59 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
Before you think gold-digger, I'm not (especially since I would require the boy to dig himself), though if you insist, I'd like to care but don't, lol... I'm not terribly comfortable with money matters and perhaps for that reason I've never been attached long term with a man who made as much or more money than I... Nevertheless, I'm from the school that if he is able to provide he should offer to provide period.  If he is not able to provide, I would certainly continue to at least as much as I do now.

I don't do dutch, and any man who suggests or agrees to dutch with me is agreeing to never seeing me again.   I will take a man out somewhere and pay 100% if he is unable to pay; but if he invites me on a date anywhere, I expect him to be able to foot the bill. If he's unable to pay for an expensive date, he can always cook for me, or take me to the park/beach to walk and talk.   I can and have loved very poor men as what I value most is not in his wallet/bank, but I cannot stand cheap man.

I will suggest to the OP that a major reason some women have come to require tribute/money is because there is an overabundance of jerkoffs online who offer the sun and the moon until he cums from having gained her trust/sympathy.   I don't require tribute, but will say that my first slave got my attention because he came to meet me with a $10 gift from Bath and Body works (which I ended up using on him), but thoughtfullness, generosity and consideration mean a great deal to me.    M

I never once said.. nor implied... gold-digger... that post was stated as me... myself... a submissive's view point. I guess I forgot the major rule of saying.. personally. My bag... and i'm sorry. I mentioned dutch...simply for the fact... no one expected nothing at the end of the night. I have no problems as far as dates picking up bills.. I was refering to meetings...things of that nature. But when it comes right down to it.. and it has in the past... I don't wanna hear.. I paid.. now you pay.. that's all.. nothing more... so please.. do not take it to mean I was refering to ANYONE being a gold-digger.Because I was not.

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Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

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Post #: 40