RE: Guns

RE: Guns (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Guns

There is too much regulation already.

10% (28)

There should be far more stringent background checks.

15% (39)

Reinstate the ban on assault guns.

11% (29)

Make conceal and carry the law in all 50 states.

10% (28)

Make gun classes mandatory.

16% (42)

The only guns availible to the public should be hunting rifles.

4% (12)

The 2nd amendment includes individuals owning firearms.

21% (54)

The 2nd amendment does not include individuals, it's been distorted.

3% (8)

I wish my country had gun laws similar to the US

0% (1)

I don't want my country to have gun laws like the US

6% (16)

Total Votes : 257

(last vote on : 2/2/2013 9:53:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 2:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Smuggled out of the US to return to the US. The source doesnt change. No Exported to arms dealers outside the US, then smuggled back in. This is contrary to the agreed most smuggled weapon in the world today, the AK 47. Not arguing with you, just it is strange. An AK is cheaper than any other weapon on the planet just about.

tazzygirl -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 2:42:55 PM)
quote: The liberals are fine with the police now after the school shooting, but in general, Liberals don't like the police. lol I am fine with the police. What many liberals were not fine with was the police corruption. Isnt that what the conservatives love so much about them? quote: They go on in forums how the police are power hungry individules, are brutal, sadistic, etc, etc. Then their ACLU ties the police hands with Miranda rights and all kids of legal bullshit to make it safer and easier for a crook to avoid prosocution. Tsk tsk... using one brush to paint everyone wont work here. You might have better luck on your other boards. quote: If I remember correctly, right before the Virginia Tech shootings, the legislature ruled that police have no right to access a person's mental health records. So how can you do a useful backround check? They couldnt. That has since changed. PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – It took 18th months and legislative pressure, but the state of Pennsylvania has agreed to sending the mental health records of people prohibited from buying firearms to a federal database. The news broke during a discussion between four suburban district attorneys and special contributor Larry Kane. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/27/state-of-pennsylvania-to-send-mental-health-records-of-those-prohibited-from-buying-guns/ http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/mentalhealthandfirearms.aspx?s=%22mental+health%22&st=&ps= PA is just one of many states who are finally coming in line with the measure. quote: With "progressive" groups making sure no one should be "embarressed" by their mental or criminal histories, that allow them to be "erased" after a short time, what the hell good are backround checks? Progressives set up the conditions that allow a nut to buy a gun then scream "how did he get the gun?!!!" H.R. 2640 (110th): NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 Introduced: Jun 11, 2007 (110th Congress, 2007–2009) Sponsor: Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY4] Status: Signed by the President COSPONSORS 17 cosponsors (14D, 3R) (show) Bishop, Timothy [D-NY1] Boucher, Frederick “Rick” [D-VA9] Capps, Lois [D-CA23] Castle, Michael [R-DE0] Dingell, John [D-MI15] Emanuel, Rahm [D-IL5] Lowey, Nita [D-NY18] Moore, Dennis [D-KS3] Moran, James “Jim” [D-VA8] Pascrell, Bill [D-NJ8] Schakowsky, Janice “Jan” [D-IL9] Shays, Christopher [R-CT4] Smith, Lamar [R-TX21] Wasserman Schultz, Debbie [D-FL20] Sherman, Brad [D-CA27] (joined Jun 12, 2007) Christensen, Donna [D-VI0] (joined Jun 13, 2007) Ross, Mike [D-AR4] (joined Jun 13, 2007) http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2640 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2640#summary/libraryofcongress And, while the NRA said they supported this.. the GOA did not. http://www.wnd.com/2007/12/45199/ So it seems your attempt at yet another "blame all liberals" post falls flat on its face.... once again.

tazzygirl -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 2:43:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Smuggled out of the US to return to the US. The source doesnt change. No Exported to arms dealers outside the US, then smuggled back in. This is contrary to the agreed most smuggled weapon in the world today, the AK 47. Not arguing with you, just it is strange. An AK is cheaper than any other weapon on the planet just about. If those guns are illegal here, how many would make it back in?

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 2:58:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Smuggled out of the US to return to the US. The source doesnt change. No Exported to arms dealers outside the US, then smuggled back in. This is contrary to the agreed most smuggled weapon in the world today, the AK 47. Not arguing with you, just it is strange. An AK is cheaper than any other weapon on the planet just about. If those guns are illegal here, how many would make it back in? Tazzy, guns are easier to smuggle than drugs. You take a 53 foot shipping container, load the back fifteen feet with legit cargo and the rest as guns. No inspector is going to have a full container unloaded.

LadyPact -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:04:55 PM)
I noticed that bit about the pricing on the (black market) AK47 last night. It seems we/the US are the culprit for most of Canada's gun trafficking woes. Then again, if I were living in certain areas of Canada, I'd want a gun. It's not like the bears are that picky about which side of the border they are on.

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:08:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I noticed that bit about the pricing on the (black market) AK47 last night. It seems we/the US are the culprit for most of Canada's gun trafficking woes. Then again, if I were living in certain areas of Canada, I'd want a gun. It's not like the bears are that picky about which side of the border they are on. Okay, the gun traffickers in the US are supplying the Canadian bears and criminals with guns. Well if a bear has the cash, i would sell to him. I am being sarcastic, I am well aware of where most of the illicit guns in Canada come from.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:10:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Smuggled out of the US to return to the US. The source doesnt change. No Exported to arms dealers outside the US, then smuggled back in. This is contrary to the agreed most smuggled weapon in the world today, the AK 47. Not arguing with you, just it is strange. An AK is cheaper than any other weapon on the planet just about. If those guns are illegal here, how many would make it back in? Tazzy, guns are easier to smuggle than drugs. You take a 53 foot shipping container, load the back fifteen feet with legit cargo and the rest as guns. No inspector is going to have a full container unloaded. Most major ports in the 'civilised' world (UK, EU, US, Oz, China, Japan etc), both sea and air. have x-ray scanners that can check any standard steel container without even opening it. And if anything suspect is found, customs officials usually have the power/authority to have the seals broken and have it forced open if necessary. Did I hear on the news a couple of years ago that NY sea ports had a very expensive major re-vamp of security and scanners?

tazzygirl -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:18:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Smuggled out of the US to return to the US. The source doesnt change. No Exported to arms dealers outside the US, then smuggled back in. This is contrary to the agreed most smuggled weapon in the world today, the AK 47. Not arguing with you, just it is strange. An AK is cheaper than any other weapon on the planet just about. If those guns are illegal here, how many would make it back in? Tazzy, guns are easier to smuggle than drugs. You take a 53 foot shipping container, load the back fifteen feet with legit cargo and the rest as guns. No inspector is going to have a full container unloaded. If 70% of the guns smuggled into the US originate in the US. How many guns would we see if we stopped making the guns that are being smuggled in?

LadyPact -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Okay, the gun traffickers in the US are supplying the Canadian bears and criminals with guns. Well if a bear has the cash, i would sell to him. I am being sarcastic, I am well aware of where most of the illicit guns in Canada come from. No worries, man. I laughed. I know that where I live isn't like most of the US but it would be tough to convince Me that guns aren't needed to protect people from wildlife. The same wildlife is on the other side of that border, too.

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 3:56:11 PM)
True, but there are ways to fool x-ray machines as well, especially the "rolling" x rays that the truck just drives through while the x ray is taken.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:14:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 True, but there are ways to fool x-ray machines as well, especially the "rolling" x rays that the truck just drives through while the x ray is taken. Have you actually seen those machines and the images they produce?? As a truck driver for 10 years I've been pulled regularly at the channel tunnel and some of those images are pretty amazing!! One time I was hauling some copper coils back from Italy and that scanner picked up a moth flying around! You would of thought I was a 20-ton herion haul! They had the environmental guys in there, sprayed with some sort of insecticide and locked up again, re-sealed with new customs paperwork and all done before I could smoke a single ciggy. After that lightning episode I was diverted to a customs shed where they crawled all over the truck and trailer wearing white biohazard suits until they declared it was clear - and that took several hours. Those scanners use different computer-enhanced colours to show different types of material being shown on their screens. It's quite fascinating if I had the time to look properly. They can spot lots of things on there and it really doesn't take more than about 2 minutes per truck/trailer/container combo. The bastards fined me £125 for the extra cigs I had buried in my 24v fridge that was under my bunk at the back of the cab!

jlf1961 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:29:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 Have you actually seen those machines and the images they produce?? As a truck driver for 10 years I've been pulled regularly at the channel tunnel and some of those images are pretty amazing!! One time I was hauling some copper coils back from Italy and that scanner picked up a moth flying around! You would of thought I was a 20-ton herion haul! They had the environmental guys in there, sprayed with some sort of insecticide and locked up again, re-sealed with new customs paperwork and all done before I could smoke a single ciggy. After that lightning episode I was diverted to a customs shed where they crawled all over the truck and trailer wearing white biohazard suits until they declared it was clear - and that took several hours. Those scanners use different computer-enhanced colours to show different types of material being shown on their screens. It's quite fascinating if I had the time to look properly. They can spot lots of things on there and it really doesn't take more than about 2 minutes per truck/trailer/container combo. The bastards fined me £125 for the extra cigs I had buried in my 24v fridge that was under my bunk at the back of the cab! Actually I have, some are very sharp, some are not. Then you have another problem, I dont know how well paid inspectors are in other countries, but the average pay for customs inspectors is between 33 and 45 thousand dollars a year, and in the states, that is not a great wage. And strangely enough, there seems to be a dirge of information on guns smuggled into the US.

tj444 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:43:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 The bastards fined me £125 for the extra cigs I had buried in my 24v fridge that was under my bunk at the back of the cab! they have to recoup their pay somehow, dude.. [sm=rofl.gif] I think its easier and cheaper to do where you live but the US is a big country with 2 very long borders.. I dont think they have nearly the number of truck or container scanners in the US you think they have.. they apparently only scan 4% of them.. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-13/u-s-backs-off-all-cargo-scanning-goal-with-inspections-at-4-.html

PeonForHer -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:46:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I know that where I live isn't like most of the US but it would be tough to convince Me that guns aren't needed to protect people from wildlife. The same wildlife is on the other side of that border, too. I'm trying to picture that, LP - it's so alien to me, as a Brit. Does your average Alaskan, walking the two mile back road to the shop in the morning for bread and milk, say, have to carry a rifle in case she or he should get set upon by a grizzly or a cougar? You have to understand that there basically aren't any dangerous wild animals here in the UK.

PeonForHer -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:54:58 PM)
JLF, Did you become a gun-freedom extremist as a result of fear of wild animals? I'm just trying to get my head around why certain people in the USA become such as yourself, that's all. It's all quite alien, as you might understand.

Politesub53 -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 4:56:46 PM)
Peon........ What, not even on a saturday night in Bristol ? [;)]

MyEnemy -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 5:06:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer JLF, Did you become a gun-freedom extremist as a result of fear of wild animals? I'm just trying to get my head around why certain people in the USA become such as yourself, that's all. It's all quite alien, as you might understand. The USA was the first country in the world to use firearms to overthrow an oppressive government. The second amendment doesn't say anything about the security of free hunting or the security of your house and it has little to do with them. I don't speak for anyone else but I am what someone like you would consider an extremist because I consider what could happen if only one organized segment of the world (government, the very wealthy) has the right to weapons. In my mind inequality of power leads to inequality of quality of life. In my mind someone who opposes the right to arms for all is a aristocracy extremist who doesn't believe in freedom or liberty.

PeonForHer -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 5:07:36 PM)
As long as you learn how to cover your eyes and ears quickly, you're usually safe. Jeez, PS, I used to think that East End girls were frightening when I lived in London. But next to the teen Bristol girls on a Saturday night, they'd look like the last word in elegance and sophistication.

breagha -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 5:23:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I know that where I live isn't like most of the US but it would be tough to convince Me that guns aren't needed to protect people from wildlife. The same wildlife is on the other side of that border, too. I'm trying to picture that, LP - it's so alien to me, as a Brit. Does your average Alaskan, walking the two mile back road to the shop in the morning for bread and milk, say, have to carry a rifle in case she or he should get set upon by a grizzly or a cougar? You have to understand that there basically aren't any dangerous wild animals here in the UK. i'm pretty sure that guns aren't needed to protect anyone from wildlife in the US. i live in a very remote mountain town ( bears, coy dogs, bobcats etc in my back yard - literally ) and we don't have a gun in the house. many people own guns here (where i live not the country in general ) because it is necessary for meat not protection. though i would hate to meet up with a mountain lion without some sort of protection... i don't think it is a necessity.

BamaD -> RE: Guns (1/27/2013 5:53:43 PM)
Last time someone quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I will only stoopto answering one of you absurd presumtions. I am 62 and diabetic in a baseball bat fight or knife fight with a 20 year old I'm dead, no if ands or buts. I have been shooting since I was 8. If we both have guns he is dead, period. The rest of your diatribe can be summed up as if pro gun people would just become anti gun people we could find some middle ground. I am 55 and also a diabetic with limited movement. If you lose a fight and get hit, the chances are you'd be badly hurt and maybe knocked unconcious - but not likely to be dead. If you had a gun and lost, you would be dead because the assailant would make sure you can't get up and shoot him. And if you were up against a very alert 20-year-old burglar, they are almost certainly going to get you first because their reactions are that much faster and probably more accurate too. I would sooner be injured and alive than a guarantee to be visiting the morgue! That is the problem withh all you pro-gun people. You just cannot envisage your environment without your precious guns. I like to live in a country where the schools don't resemble a high-security prison because guns are too prolific. I like to live where I can go shopping at any time without looking over my shoulder just in case there's a nutter carrying a gun. I like living where my kids are safe wherever they go 99.99999999999999999999% of the time because there are no guns around for them to be killed with. And don't start with the cars causing deaths - that's pretty much the same in any modern western society and is of no relevance at all. The topic is about guns, not cars or knives or anything else you care to throw up in defense. Guns kill... regularly, indescriminately, and at a distance. And in the hands of someone not law-abiding or deranged in some way, nobody is safe. Without those guns, the world is a much safer place - the figures prove that. Last time someone with that view tried it around here he got beaten to death with bricks. You get into a fight you can't win and you get hurt as bad as the other guy wants you to be..Idon't have that much faith in their good will. And with a gun I at least have a chance.

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