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[Poll]

Guns

There is too much regulation already.

10% (28)

There should be far more stringent background checks.

15% (39)

Reinstate the ban on assault guns.

11% (29)

Make conceal and carry the law in all 50 states.

10% (28)

Make gun classes mandatory.

16% (42)

The only guns availible to the public should be hunting rifles.

4% (12)

The 2nd amendment includes individuals owning firearms.

21% (54)

The 2nd amendment does not include individuals, it's been distorted.

3% (8)

I wish my country had gun laws similar to the US

0% (1)

I don't want my country to have gun laws like the US

6% (16)

Total Votes : 257

(last vote on : 2/2/2013 9:53:19 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 9:28:39 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Reminds me of a house Generic Dude was in a few weeks ago. The guy had an entire spare bedroom full of assorted weapons and ammo. The only lock was a cheap padlock screwed into the wood door frame and whatever the standard was, or wasn't, on the two windows. Nothing else. it was a hollow core door as well. There were no extra precautions with either the windows, the interiour door, or the exteriour doors. And, when he went to show off his cache......he didn't have to unlock the padlock. It was just hanging on there.

His wife was running a daycare from the house as well.

Such a safe and responsible gun owner.

That has to be a violation of state regulations regarding day care facilities. You might want to notify the state.

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Post #: 21

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 9:36:04 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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What he's done meets the very vague, Iowa state code.

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Post #: 22

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 9:37:10 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take?

I dont see a deadbolt as much of a deterrent. Those locks can be picked, kicked in, jimmied. Why would you assume that would be enough to ensure your "very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands" would be secure from those wrong hands.

What lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

The idea that a person should be held responsible for the consequences of owning a gun and not having it secured enough is laughable. Had the Mom not been killed first, you'd be putting her on the stand with her son for his murders. I agree that there should be something done about people who don't adequately secure a firearm, but holding them responsible for the crime committed by someone who stole the gun? I think that's a bit overboard.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Post #: 23

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 9:44:44 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

What lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

People put money into safes to keep others from.. what? from having easy access to their money when someone breaks into their homes.

But you are arguing that guns should somehow be different?

quote:

The idea that a person should be held responsible for the consequences of owning a gun and not having it secured enough is laughable. Had the Mom not been killed first, you'd be putting her on the stand with her son for his murders.

Not at all.. and we have discussed this enough for you to have no reason to blatantly misrepresent my position here.

Making someone legally responsible does not mean putting them on trial for murder. It also opens the doors for lawsuits, digging into those pockets should make people wake up to the seriousness of this issue and actually decide a safe is cheaper than the suits from victims families.

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Post #: 24

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 9:46:26 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Reminds me of a house Generic Dude was in a few weeks ago. The guy had an entire spare bedroom full of assorted weapons and ammo. The only lock was a cheap padlock screwed into the wood door frame and whatever the standard was, or wasn't, on the two windows. Nothing else. it was a hollow core door as well. There were no extra precautions with either the windows, the interiour door, or the exteriour doors. And, when he went to show off his cache......he didn't have to unlock the padlock. It was just hanging on there.

His wife was running a daycare from the house as well.

Such a safe and responsible gun owner.

Exactly. I have no issues with anyone owning a gun. But that doesnt give anyone the right to be so irresponsible.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 25

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 11:08:49 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take?

I dont see a deadbolt as much of a deterrent. Those locks can be picked, kicked in, jimmied. Why would you assume that would be enough to ensure your "very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands" would be secure from those wrong hands.

What lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

The idea that a person should be held responsible for the consequences of owning a gun and not having it secured enough is laughable. Had the Mom not been killed first, you'd be putting her on the stand with her son for his murders. I agree that there should be something done about people who don't adequately secure a firearm, but holding them responsible for the crime committed by someone who stole the gun? I think that's a bit overboard.

So if a guy with a gun does not like his neighbor music, he with his gun, goes and shoots and kills them, he not responsible...yeah that is laughable. Had Adams mother secured the guns..well, maybe Sandy Hook would not have happen. On a personal note I sold my guns when I began to take care of my granddaughter, she is autisic. Never regretted selling the gun and my most happiest time was caring for my granddaughter.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 1/22/2013 11:09:20 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

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Post #: 26

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 11:51:58 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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~FR~

As of this posting the top 3 are:

1) Owning a gun is a right - If the effort to argue this back and forth is put into other areas that can help, it would go further to finding better solutions.

2) Mandatory Classes - As a gun owner I have supported this. I feel that it should be mandatory to owning a firearm, much like licensing for other deadly or dangerous things we own and use.

3) More Stringent Background checks - Again as a gun owner I have supported this as well. The other side is that mental health issues need to be a part of the check.

If you work on the things that most agree on, instead of bogging the solutions down with arguing extreme sides, then you are more likely to start finding solutions.

Maybe the poll should have also included "Create laws that are extremely strict against those that do not secure their weapons" or some such.

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Post #: 27

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 11:56:59 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Abortions are another legal activity that's under fire, both legally and ethically.

And literally, see: Dr Tiller.

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Post #: 28

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 11:59:00 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

......His wife was running a daycare from the house as well.....

Lovely!!

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Post #: 29

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 12:16:30 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

I couldn't vote in the poll - there's no "I think all guns should be banned" option.

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Post #: 30

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 12:59:36 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

What lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

People put money into safes to keep others from.. what? from having easy access to their money when someone breaks into their homes.
But you are arguing that guns should somehow be different?

Absolutely not arguing that at all. I completely agree that guns should be kept responsibly. But, to what level of security is the standard? Will nothing but biometric scans and multiple locking mechanisms be the regulation? There does come a point in time when further securing of your firearm begins to infringe on your ability to use it to defend yourself. Wouldn't that be something; a person owning a firearm for personal protection, but not being able to get to it in time to use it to protect him/herself because of how securely it was kept?

quote:

quote:

The idea that a person should be held responsible for the consequences of owning a gun and not having it secured enough is laughable. Had the Mom not been killed first, you'd be putting her on the stand with her son for his murders.

Not at all.. and we have discussed this enough for you to have no reason to blatantly misrepresent my position here.
Making someone legally responsible does not mean putting them on trial for murder. It also opens the doors for lawsuits, digging into those pockets should make people wake up to the seriousness of this issue and actually decide a safe is cheaper than the suits from victims families.

What, then, does "legally responsible"mean? Civil trials only? So, had the mother not been killed, she'd have been open for civil lawsuits because her son attempted to kill her and then steal her stuff? If someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime, are you going to be open to civil suits because you didn't have your car secure enough? How can you not see how wrong that is?!? If there was no attempt to secure the firearm, I could see some sort of penalty or punishment being used to deter that. However, being open to civil suit(s) could very easily destroy someone who had thought they had their firearm secure.

So, again, I ask you, what lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Post #: 31

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 1:05:07 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I didn't vote, btw, and I'm esp confused by the bottom option....
Focus.

Yes, this is primarily about the US, and the bottom 2 options are for you foreign sorts to be able to weigh in

Well yeah, but here's the bottom option I spoke of:

"I don't want my country to have gun laws like the US".

I don't want my planet to have oceans like Mars - if you see my point...?

Focus.

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Post #: 32

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 1:06:57 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take?

I dont see a deadbolt as much of a deterrent. Those locks can be picked, kicked in, jimmied. Why would you assume that would be enough to ensure your "very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands" would be secure from those wrong hands.

What lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.
The idea that a person should be held responsible for the consequences of owning a gun and not having it secured enough is laughable. Had the Mom not been killed first, you'd be putting her on the stand with her son for his murders. I agree that there should be something done about people who don't adequately secure a firearm, but holding them responsible for the crime committed by someone who stole the gun? I think that's a bit overboard.

So if a guy with a gun does not like his neighbor music, he with his gun, goes and shoots and kills them, he not responsible...yeah that is laughable.

WTF are you talking about?!? It's obvious the guy with the gun is responsible. He fucking shot the other guy! Your example has abso-fucking-lutely no bearing on my post whatsoever.

quote:

0Had Adams mother secured the guns..well, maybe Sandy Hook would not have happen.

Or, she died so he could get the key(s)? Do we know, for a fact, that the guns were not secured that morning (or whenever it was he geared up)?

quote:

On a personal note I sold my guns when I began to take care of my granddaughter, she is autisic. Never regretted selling the gun and my most happiest time was caring for my granddaughter.

That is quite a choice you made. I am not surprised that was the happiest time for you. I commend you for those choices.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Nosathro)

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Post #: 33

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 1:14:31 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I don't care if you need them or not. Have all you want. But just be responsible for what you own. 500,000 stolen guns a year tells me not everyone is.

Two years ago my home was robbed. They stole a gun. The police arrived (45 minutes after I called) to collect their information for the report. When I listed the items that were stolen and got to the gun he winced and started calmly lecturing me about not having it locked up. I walked over to the door and pointed to the still engaged deadbolt and the splintered door facing and asked him precisely what did that look like to him. I then asked him if we were finished with our business and pointed again towards the now un-closeable door. The house was locked. How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take?

All of my medicine cabinets had been opened. Should we have drug safes, tazzy? Some degenerate meth head kicks in my door and it's my fault. Lovely. I'm the victim here but suddenly I'm at fault. You might want to avoid rape discussions.

So the gun "security" you're defending so indignantly is of the same level as your sock and throw cushion security?

Probably explain your avatar, too....

I would imagine the only reason anyone would wanna be a cop in the US is because we all have to pay our bills somehow....

Focus.

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Post #: 34

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 3:15:04 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
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quote:

What, then, does "legally responsible"mean? Civil trials only? So, had the mother not been killed, she'd have been open for civil lawsuits because her son attempted to kill her and then steal her stuff?

Dunno... did she have them in a gun safe? If not, then yes. If she did, then no.

Legally responsible.... you think there should be no ramifications for breaking the law? The loss of weapons, fine and jail term for failure to comply.

quote:

However, being open to civil suit(s) could very easily destroy someone who had thought they had their firearm secure.

Had thought????? Thats good enough for you? Someone "thinks"? Their guns are stolen, 20 plus people die... sorry... shrug it off and move on?

quote:

So, again, I ask you, what lock isn't pickable? Is there a lock that is guaranteed to never be broken into? I watched a video of a Master Lock padlock opened using an utility knife (could have been a pair of scissors; I saw it early last year) and an aluminum can.

Repeating this wont change the answer. There is a massive difference between someone actually making an effort and someone being too lazy and hiding behind the... its my right... meme.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 35

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 3:33:01 PM

Ronnie1986

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/15/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I don't care if you need them or not. Have all you want. But just be responsible for what you own. 500,000 stolen guns a year tells me not everyone is.

Two years ago my home was robbed. They stole a gun. The police arrived (45 minutes after I called) to collect their information for the report. When I listed the items that were stolen and got to the gun he winced and started calmly lecturing me about not having it locked up. I walked over to the door and pointed to the still engaged deadbolt and the splintered door facing and asked him precisely what did that look like to him. I then asked him if we were finished with our business and pointed again towards the now un-closeable door. The house was locked. How many of those 500K guns do you think were left on the sidewalk for anyone to take?

All of my medicine cabinets had been opened. Should we have drug safes, tazzy? Some degenerate meth head kicks in my door and it's my fault. Lovely. I'm the victim here but suddenly I'm at fault. You might want to avoid rape discussions.

i agree with you.. but i actually called the police after a shootout once and by the time they arrived it was a joke.. it had taken them 4 hours to respond.. we were right downtown flint michigan the police headquarters was only like 5-10 minutes away.. if you need a weapon then you need it now.. not after you get the key or remember your combination.. locking your doors in a childless home where you only let adults whom you trust in should be sufficient.. whenever you call police they will arrive after the fact its the nature of the job and having to travel but sometimes they purposley wait it out and make sure its safe before they come.. ie in some areas they will wait till they have 2-4 squad cars deep before going into the neighborhood and they have to wait for the other cars to finish whatever they were doing before even heading over.. i mean imagine if you wake up to being forcefully taken (raped) you wat to be able to fight your way to a gun and not need to have to put a com in or get the key..

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Post #: 36

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 4:18:12 PM

Politesub53

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Not needed in the UK and I voted accordingly.

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Post #: 37

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 4:23:20 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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Fr:

I would never blame a homeowner that had a firearm stolen, for a crime the thief performed with that gun.

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Post #: 38

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 4:29:06 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I didn't vote, btw, and I'm esp confused by the bottom option....
Focus.

Yes, this is primarily about the US, and the bottom 2 options are for you foreign sorts to be able to weigh in

Well yeah, but here's the bottom option I spoke of:

"I don't want my country to have gun laws like the US".

I don't want my planet to have oceans like Mars - if you see my point...?

Focus.

I meant that as an option for those that don't live in the US to say "I'm against having.private citizens owning guns."

It'd have been nice to be able to put up more than 10 options, to give people more choices.

< Message edited by Level -- 1/22/2013 5:19:40 PM >

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
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Post #: 39

RE: Guns - 1/22/2013 4:29:25 PM

uglycowwanted

Posts: 1
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I ticked the 'I don't want gun laws like the US' and I notice no one has ticked that they would. To be honest most of the Western world is amazed that America still allows guns to be so freely available. We can understand why they are in the Third World because desperate people living in poverty and without any significant law enforcement need them, but not in the West.

Clearly most gun laws in America are based in the frontier mentality of fighting to take control of an untamed land, but that was a long time now, and the World has changed. The reason America has far more shootings than other countries is not because it has any more lunatics than anywhere else, it's just that those that do can get access to guns.

I suppose the school shootings lead to a simple question, what does America love most, it's kids or it's guns? The answer appears to be the latter, and it is this the rest of the World finds hard to understand.

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Post #: 40