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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 5:11:55 PM   
Baroana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

What Israel has done is the same thing the Nazi did to them in the ghetto of Warlsa and Poland and
so many other places!
Is there no older person to see that history is repeating "itself" I am so ashamed and gut retching
sadness they do not see this happening!!!!!!!

Why are other helping them? I can not say, but they must see this is so hideous and an act of terror
to others!!!!!

Mons



Drastic oversimplification, but not entirely off base. Wait, I said I wasn't going to get sucked into this.

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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 6:25:41 PM   
Real0ne


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well lets hear the complicated version that is so different

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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 6:38:17 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana
Wow, what an incredibly timely discussion................. 50 years ago.

Not timely? The very center of conflict in the Middle East. Today.

funny how ya started talkin bout that time on tha last thread & then changed yer mind ta say it wasnt relevant when folks were answering ya back. make yer mind up already

Once again, I have no idea what the fuck you are trying to say. What wasn't relevant?

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 6:39:55 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

About Israel? Hell no. I stay off that topic. Waste of breath and emotion.

About anything that satisfies your intellectual depth and curiosity.*

*not meant to be a slam



I start topics all the time. I recall starting a very in-depth discussion once about fart slavery.

Sorry, that one blew right past me.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 6:42:37 PM   
Baroana


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(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 6:54:55 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana
Wow, what an incredibly timely discussion................. 50 years ago.

Not timely? The very center of conflict in the Middle East. Today.

funny how ya started talkin bout that time on tha last thread & then changed yer mind ta say it wasnt relevant when folks were answering ya back. make yer mind up already

Once again, I have no idea what the fuck you are trying to say. What wasn't relevant?

ya were tha one to keep bringing up tha past & ancient past but said it wasnt relevant on tha old thread when it suited ya to do so.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 2/23/2013 6:58:06 PM >


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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:00:25 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

hey now temper temper lol. ya were tha one to keep bringing up tha past & ancient past but said it wasnt relevant on tha old thread when it suited ya to do so.

Oh good. You do speak in whole sentences with subjects, verbs, and shit.

I did say the past was not relevant. Especially ancient history. It isn't. Relevant is the Zionist grab of land belonging to Palestinians. Anything other than that is a red herring.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:05:56 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

hey now temper temper lol. ya were tha one to keep bringing up tha past & ancient past but said it wasnt relevant on tha old thread when it suited ya to do so.

Oh good. You do speak in whole sentences with subjects, verbs, and shit.

I did say the past was not relevant. Especially ancient history. It isn't. Relevant is the Zionist grab of land belonging to Palestinians. Anything other than that is a red herring.

so yer being selective with tha past. get it now. anything before israel is irrelevant & anything outside israel is irrelevant. any ancient argument ya bring up is also irrelevant if it goes against ya as on tha older threads.

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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:12:13 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

hey now temper temper lol. ya were tha one to keep bringing up tha past & ancient past but said it wasnt relevant on tha old thread when it suited ya to do so.

Oh good. You do speak in whole sentences with subjects, verbs, and shit.

I did say the past was not relevant. Especially ancient history. It isn't. Relevant is the Zionist grab of land belonging to Palestinians. Anything other than that is a red herring.

so yer being selective with tha past. get it now. anything before israel is irrelevant & anything outside israel is irrelevant. any ancient argument ya bring up is also irrelevant if it goes against ya as on tha older threads.

Sorry, I don't recall bringing up any ancient argument. That was Ken's line not mine.

I didn't say anything before Israel is irrelevent. I said the Zionist grab of land is relevent. That began before Israel became a modern nation. You seem to be perpetually confused. Try to stay on the page.

(in reply to WantsOfTheFlesh)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:16:22 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Sorry, I don't recall bringing up any ancient argument. That was Ken's line not mine.

I didn't say anything before Israel is irrelevent. I said the Zionist grab of land is relevent. That began before Israel became a modern nation. You seem to be perpetually confused. Try to stay on the page.

nah ya brought up big things like the jews not being indigenous ta tha region. jews buying land is a "zionist land grab"? lol

must add ya seem to be a bit irritable tonite.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:27:55 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Sorry, I don't recall bringing up any ancient argument. That was Ken's line not mine.

I didn't say anything before Israel is irrelevent. I said the Zionist grab of land is relevent. That began before Israel became a modern nation. You seem to be perpetually confused. Try to stay on the page.

nah ya brought up big things like the jews not being indigenous ta tha region. jews buying land is a "zionist land grab"? lol

must add ya seem to be a bit irritable tonite.

I am that. Because you are obfuscating the issue raised in the OP. Zionism has turned Palestine into an apartheid land. It is a current reality and has nothing to do with the past.

(in reply to WantsOfTheFlesh)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:32:21 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Sorry, I don't recall bringing up any ancient argument. That was Ken's line not mine.

I didn't say anything before Israel is irrelevent. I said the Zionist grab of land is relevent. That began before Israel became a modern nation. You seem to be perpetually confused. Try to stay on the page.

nah ya brought up big things like the jews not being indigenous ta tha region. jews buying land is a "zionist land grab"? lol

must add ya seem to be a bit irritable tonite.

I am that. Because you are obfuscating the issue raised in the OP. Zionism has turned Palestine into an apartheid land. It is a current reality and has nothing to do with the past.

aww sorry bout that. funny ta be "obfuscating" (big ole word that) when ya wanted ta debate tha past on this thread & i pointed out how ya keep changing yer mind on that. lol

ever hear that most arabs wanna stay in Israel instaed of a pally state? loadsa polls by independent folks over tha years prove they do. kinda makes a nonsense of tha whole apratheid bs dont ya thunk?

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 2/23/2013 7:34:13 PM >


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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 7:48:20 PM   
Powergamz1


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If it has nothing to do with the past, then why the constant efforts to re-write history, instead of merely addressing the current wrongdoings of the Israeli politicians and military today?

The apartheid argument can stand on its own merits without trotting out revisionist propaganda.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Sorry, I don't recall bringing up any ancient argument. That was Ken's line not mine.

I didn't say anything before Israel is irrelevent. I said the Zionist grab of land is relevent. That began before Israel became a modern nation. You seem to be perpetually confused. Try to stay on the page.

nah ya brought up big things like the jews not being indigenous ta tha region. jews buying land is a "zionist land grab"? lol

must add ya seem to be a bit irritable tonite.

I am that. Because you are obfuscating the issue raised in the OP. Zionism has turned Palestine into an apartheid land. It is a current reality and has nothing to do with the past.



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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/23/2013 8:26:07 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mons

What Israel has done is the same thing the Nazi did to them in the ghetto of Warlsa and Poland and
so many other places!
Is there no older person to see that history is repeating "itself" I am so ashamed and gut retching
sadness they do not see this happening!!!!!!!

Maybe you should study that history in more depth. Then you wouldn't make the above claim.

(in reply to mons)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/24/2013 3:36:13 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

The apartheid argument can stand on its own merits without trotting out revisionist propaganda.


Indeed it can.

For a more comprehensive list of prominent Israelis and others who have described Israel as an apartheid State, check out this article:

FWIW the list includes amongst others, a former Israeli Attorney-General and Netanyahoo's son. Here's just two examples:

"In April 2011, Professor Daniel Blatman, a Holocaust researcher and head of the Institute for Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, wrote that the purpose of the recent "tsunami of racist laws passed by the Knesset" was "the gradual establishment of an apartheid state in Israel, and the future separation on a racial basis of Jews and non-Jews." Tracing the "Israeli apartheid state-in-the-making," back to 1967, Blatman explained:
"What started as rule over another people has gradually ripened - especially since the latter part of the 1970s - into a colonialism that is nurturing a regime of oppression and discrimination with regard to the Palestinian population. It is robbing that population of its land and of its basic civil rights, and is encouraging a minority group (the settlers) to develop a crude, violent attitude toward the Arabs in the territories. This was exactly the reality that, after many years, led to the establishment of the apartheid state in South Africa
."

"On May 1, 2012, Henry Siegman, Holocaust survivor and former head of the American Jewish Congress, wrote, "In the 1980s many in the American Jewish establishment (myself included) participated in demonstrations against South Africa's apartheid regime. The struggle against apartheid was considered by the Jewish community (not only by liberals) to be a Jewish cause. But that was in the 1980s, and the apartheid was in South Africa. Today it is in Israel -- and not as a future possibility, as many have been warning, but a current reality." Siegman added:
Netanyahu and his government have sought to disguise their de facto apartheid regime by pretending the status quo in the occupied West Bank is temporary, and that it would lead to a two-state agreement if only Palestinians would return to negotiations in a peace process that has been a farce, having served no purpose other than to disguise the enlargement of the settlement project that created the apartheid to begin with
."
http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-ahmadinejads-insult-to.html

The full article is well worth reading, especially from after the first third or so.

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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/24/2013 8:37:57 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I wonder for how much longer will US taxpayers continue to fund, arm and protect an apartheid State?

Uh.... you are assuming that the "US taxpayers" have anything to do with this, right? You make it sound like the US population is in some semblance of control over it's government.


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RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/24/2013 11:52:18 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh


so yer being selective with tha past. get it now. anything before israel is irrelevant & anything outside israel is irrelevant. any ancient argument ya bring up is also irrelevant if it goes against ya as on tha older threads.



The irony of your post wont be lost on most of us.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/24/2013 9:46:41 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh


so yer being selective with tha past. get it now. anything before israel is irrelevant & anything outside israel is irrelevant. any ancient argument ya bring up is also irrelevant if it goes against ya as on tha older threads.



The irony of your post wont be lost on most of us.

Polite, your post makes more sense to me if 'irony' is replaced with 'idiocy'.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/24/2013 10:07:02 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I think "apartheid" may be a poor choice of terms. For one thing, it only opens up pointless debate about the validity of the analogy with South Africa. I'd be more inclined to describe what's been going on (since day one) as "ethnic cleansing".

K.


Of the 38 posts on this thread to date, the above is the only one that directly disputes the assertion that Israel is operating an apartheid State. Not that the content of this post offers much solace to Zionists and their racist supporters. Instead it asserts that the appalling and murderous racism and violence demonstrated consistently by the Israeli State and its agents, the colonists/settlers is '"ethnic cleansing".

Interesting that none of our deluded resident Zionists chose to challenge either claim head-on. How could they? Instead in true hasbara style, they prefer to vilify the messenger or obfuscate the issue.

The facts are self evident to any one who checks. And there's a mountain of independent evidence to support the assertion that Israel is operating an apartheid regime, or of the massive levels of anti-Palestinian (and anti-black) racism in Israeli society. Most Israelis, in contrast to their overseas supporters, are quite frank and open about Israeli apartheid:

"The survey found that a majority of the Jewish public -- 59 per cent -- say they want a system that gives preference to Jews applying for civil service jobs. Arabs, who constitute 20 per cent of the Israeli population, complain such a policy unofficially exists already.
Just under half of respondents, 49 per cent, said they want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones, while 42 per cent said they did not want to live in the same building as Arabs and did not want their children to go to schools that also admit Arabs.
Tellingly, 58 per cent of those surveyed said Israel already practices a system of apartheid against Palestinians, an opinion normally only voiced by the Jewish state’s staunchest critics
." (my emphasis)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9628155/Israelis-favour-discrimination-against-Arabs-poll.html

Even our pathetic rabble of resident Zionists seem afraid to contradict the majority Israeli opinion that Israel does in fact operate an apartheid system.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/24/2013 10:13:46 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli o... - 2/25/2013 5:57:12 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Interesting that none of our deluded resident Zionists chose to challenge either claim head-on. How could they? Instead in true hasbara style, they prefer to vilify the messenger or obfuscate the issue.

aawww darlin', why would anyone bother to directly refute coz all you do is post tha same bs thats already been answered loadsa times. ya whine about "vilifying the messenger" when none happened here. ya attacked me above & ya trolled on another thread. you freak when anyone speaks bout israel positively & keep calling them "racist". real nice

quote:

"The survey found that a majority of the Jewish public -- 59 per cent -- say they want a system that gives preference to Jews applying for civil service jobs. Arabs, who constitute 20 per cent of the Israeli population, complain such a policy unofficially exists already.
Just under half of respondents, 49 per cent, said they want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones, while 42 per cent said they did not want to live in the same building as Arabs and did not want their children to go to schools that also admit Arabs.
Tellingly, 58 per cent of those surveyed said Israel already practices a system of apartheid against Palestinians, an opinion normally only voiced by the Jewish state’s staunchest critics
." (my emphasis)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9628155/Israelis-favour-discrimination-against-Arabs-poll.html

Even our pathetic rabble of resident Zionists seem afraid to contradict the majority Israeli opinion that Israel does in fact operate an apartheid system.

lol ya must know that poll waz debunked as being total bs & that tha guy http://honestreporting.com/haaretz-apartheid-clarification-too-little-too-late/ who first presented it has acknowledged mistakes were made. most polls includin by arab-israeli groups http://www.sikkuy.org.il/english/newsl/newsletter23_1_12.html show most israelis support equality
quote:

A clear majority of the Jews (74 percent) acknowledge the fact that Arab citizens suffer some degree of discrimination, and many of them expressed empathy for their situation.

60 percent of the Jews believe that promoting the equality of Arab citizens is in the interest of the country.

Almost 40 percent of the Jews are ready for a program to reduce gaps, even if they will suffer from it personally, in other words, they declare a willingness to pay a personal price in order to reduce the gaps.


< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 2/25/2013 6:45:35 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 40
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