RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official

RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (2/28/2013 7:32:03 PM)
quote: It's already been established that Israel does not practice apartheid. That was settled on page 1. Settled on page 1 only if we accept your cherry picking from the article. "Similarities between the “original apartheid” as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in Israel and the West Bank today “scream to the heavens,” added Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted." So, not settled at all. You twist Liel's words to suit your opinion.

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (2/28/2013 8:11:24 PM)
I twisted nothing. His words are clear. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen What the guy actually said quote: There is a real danger of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank becoming an integral part of the state, he said. “When that happens, when the West Bank and [Israel in the pre-1967 lines] become one, and the Palestinian residents of the West Bank will not have citizenship — we’re apartheid,” he said. Which would be a concern if Israel had ever shown any desire to annex the entire West Bank and not give its residents full citzenship.

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (2/28/2013 8:13:02 PM)
And now back to this oft repeated attack. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You are either incapable of recognizing that Israel is an occupying power and that the settlement movement contravenes the Fourth Geneva Convention So what precisely should be done to a nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention and how should the rest of the world prioritize those actions? Anyone dare to say exactly what should be done to each and every nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention?

tweakabelle -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/1/2013 4:48:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And now back to this oft repeated attack. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You are either incapable of recognizing that Israel is an occupying power and that the settlement movement contravenes the Fourth Geneva Convention. So what precisely should be done to a nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention and how should the rest of the world prioritize those actions? Anyone dare to say exactly what should be done to each and every nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention? Given the number of times Israel trashes international law, and the contemptuous attitude it displays towards those laws it is hardly surprising that Zionists are unfamiliar with the sanctions imposed on the guilty parties. There are established legal procedures for dealing with those who transgress international law. However such legal remedies are not the subject of this thread. This thread is concerned with establishing whether Israel is contravening international law by operating an apartheid system in areas under its control and that question alone. As yet, despite some clearly deluded (and totally unsupported by credible evidence)* claims to the contrary emanating from Zionists here, nothing substantive (either evidence or argument) to suggest that Israel is not operating an apartheid system has been presented. If anyone needs any further evidence to confirm that Israel is in fact operating an apartheid system, there's a mountain of such evidence available. Simply google 'Israel apartheid' to review that evidence. I have already presented some of that evidence above. I will be happy to present more if any one feels it necessary. There's probably enough good credible evidence available to keep me posting until 2020 and beyond. Finally I note that our resident Zionists seem happy to discuss anything other than the evidence that Israel operates an apartheid system. Again that's hardly surprising - there is no credible evidence available to exculpate Israel in this matter. All the available evidence points uncompromisingly to Israel being guilty of operating an apartheid system, as many Israelis themselves openly and unambiguously acknowledge. *"Evidence" here means credible evidence from unbiased internationally respected sources.

TricklessMagic -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/1/2013 7:36:55 AM)
"Unbiased Internationally Respected Sources" huh, okay, yeah, no. Considering how anti-semite so much of the International community is. I'll take the word of Palestinians I've personally known who are from Israel (they left for a better future in America because being Palestinian and not muslim is a very dangerous thing for them). Is Israel protecting itself or simply being evil? If Israel is being so evil to these "Palestinians" then why don't their Arab brothers and sisters absorb them (oh that's right they won't). The Palestinians who get angry over apartheid, or what they are calling apartheid, are typically the same ones who want to be able to freely roam Israel and create the opening for more suicide bombings. There are lots of Palestinians living in Israel, even Muslims, there just happens to be a lot of Palestinians living in captured zones that haven't been turned into states that Israel begrudginly pulled out of and refuses to supply it with aid and anyone from those captured areas who want to work in Israel to feed their families, have to get past check points designed to protect innocent civilians from terrorist attacks. This is the case of the bully getting their nose bloodied and calling foul, and getting pushed down by the would-be victim every time the bully tries to victimize the would-be victim. If the international community wasn't worthlessly impotent, maybe they could do something, but they're impotent cowards and that's why they get angry with America.

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/1/2013 9:58:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And now back to this oft repeated attack. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You are either incapable of recognizing that Israel is an occupying power and that the settlement movement contravenes the Fourth Geneva Convention. So what precisely should be done to a nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention and how should the rest of the world prioritize those actions? Anyone dare to say exactly what should be done to each and every nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention? Given the number of times Israel trashes international law, and the contemptuous attitude it displays towards those laws it is hardly surprising that Zionists are unfamiliar with the sanctions imposed on the guilty parties. Once again, I'm not a zionist. I simply do not hate all Jews and do not blindly accept everything Hamas claims. As to the 4th GC, it contains no punishment for anyone who breaks it. So once more what precisely should be done to each and every nation violating it?

vincentML -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 8:29:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And now back to this oft repeated attack. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You are either incapable of recognizing that Israel is an occupying power and that the settlement movement contravenes the Fourth Geneva Convention So what precisely should be done to a nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention and how should the rest of the world prioritize those actions? Anyone dare to say exactly what should be done to each and every nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention? Disinvestment and sanctions would be a good start. Withdrawal of American hugs and kisses, tho doubtful, would be a great follow-up. In addition to Section III Occupying Powers, it would appear imo that Israel is guilty of Collective Punishments: [Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."] Please don't bullshit me with "Palestinian terrorists resort to intimidatory acts." The Palestinians are not an occupying power.

vincentML -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 8:33:19 AM)
quote: Once again, I'm not a zionist. I simply do not hate all Jews and do not blindly accept everything Hamas claims. Are you suggesting that taking the side of Palestinians is a hatred of Jews? Oh no, you would not do that because you know that would violate TOS. So, why the need to affirm that you do not hate Jews? Are you trying to slyly imply that others here do? I hope not.

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 8:33:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And now back to this oft repeated attack. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You are either incapable of recognizing that Israel is an occupying power and that the settlement movement contravenes the Fourth Geneva Convention So what precisely should be done to a nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention and how should the rest of the world prioritize those actions? Anyone dare to say exactly what should be done to each and every nation violating the 4th Geneva Convention? Disinvestment and sanctions would be a good start. Withdrawal of American hugs and kisses, tho doubtful, would be a great follow-up. In addition to Section III Occupying Powers, it would appear imo that Israel is guilty of Collective Punishments: [Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to "intimidatory measures to terrorize the population" in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices "strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice."] Please don't bullshit me with "Palestinian terrorists resort to intimidatory acts." The Palestinians are not an occupying power. Ok, so what should be the priority in destroying the economies of these nations? IOW which ones first?

vincentML -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 8:43:25 AM)
quote: Ok, so what should be the priority in destroying the economies of these nations? IOW which ones first? The Palestinian economy is already in the shit hole thanks to the Israeli occupation. So, puhleez[8\|]

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 9:09:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Ok, so what should be the priority in destroying the economies of these nations? IOW which ones first? The Palestinian economy is already in the shit hole thanks to the Israeli occupation. So, puhleez[8\|] I'm not complaining about that. I just want to know how we should prioritize the enforcement of the 4th GC.

vincentML -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 9:50:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Ok, so what should be the priority in destroying the economies of these nations? IOW which ones first? The Palestinian economy is already in the shit hole thanks to the Israeli occupation. So, puhleez[8\|] I'm not complaining about that. I just want to know how we should prioritize the enforcement of the 4th GC. Which other nations are at war and are an occupying power? The NATO nations in Afghanastan? I'm fine with NATO withdrawing IF they can be shown to be an occupying power abusing the Afgans. Actually, I'm fine with NATO withdrawing in any event. But, to answer your question, starting with Israel would be Just imo.

DomKen -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 11:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Ok, so what should be the priority in destroying the economies of these nations? IOW which ones first? The Palestinian economy is already in the shit hole thanks to the Israeli occupation. So, puhleez[8\|] I'm not complaining about that. I just want to know how we should prioritize the enforcement of the 4th GC. Which other nations are at war and are an occupying power? The NATO nations in Afghanastan? I'm fine with NATO withdrawing IF they can be shown to be an occupying power abusing the Afgans. Actually, I'm fine with NATO withdrawing in any event. But, to answer your question, starting with Israel would be Just imo. Countries that are occupying powers violating some aspect of the 4th GC: USA Australia China Canada Mexico Brazil Colombia Peru Argentina Chile (all the rest of the nations of the Americas) So why Israel rather than these much worse violators?

Kirata -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/2/2013 12:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So why Israel...? Because we're sick of this shit, and because sooner more likely than later it's going to ignite a shooting war involving the major powers. K.

tweakabelle -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/3/2013 1:58:08 AM)
Israel's apartheid system, which our resident Zionists insist does not exist, is being expanded to include racially-segregated Palestinian-only bus routes: "Israel’s Transportation Ministry is under fire for creating what appear to be racially segregated bus lines in the West Bank. According to the ministry, these newly-created lines will transport Palestinian workers to central Israel and are intended to mitigate passenger traffic for Jews on the existing lines. The Palestinian-only routes will officially be considered “general bus lines,” and the ministry contends that Palestinians will still be legally allowed to ride the regular lines on which Jews travel. However, several bus drivers told Israel’s Ynet that Palestinians who choose to ride on the normative, “mixed” lines would now be asked to leave them and opt for the Palestinian-only lines, which have only been advertised in Palestinian villages via signs in Arabic. Read the full article: http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/tikkundaily/israel-launches-palestinian-only-bus-lines How long before the Palestinians produce their own Rosa Parks?

Powergamz1 -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/3/2013 9:26:41 AM)
How long before you stop repeating the nonsense that no one one but you admits it exists, and smearing those who have challenged you repeatedly to have an honest discourse, as 'Zionists'? Going to denier this one too?

tweakabelle -> RE: "Israel is an apartheid State": Israeli official (3/3/2013 4:21:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 How long before you stop repeating the nonsense that no one one but you admits it exists, and smearing those who have challenged you repeatedly to have an honest discourse, as 'Zionists'? Going to denier this one too? On page 1 of this thread alone, there are 3 other posters agreeing with the charge that Israel operates an apartheid system. More posters are sympathetic but prefer other terms such as 'ethnic cleansing'. In marked contrast to the unsupported claims of those disputing this charge, citations from independent sources are presented to support my claim. Given the self-evident blatant falsehood of your claim that "no one but you" is making the claim that Israel operates an apartheid system in areas under its control, I have no idea what you mean by "honest discourse" and doubt if you do either. On this evidence whatever "honest discourse" refers to in your post, it has little or no connection to the ordinary English-language meaning of the word 'honest'. If and when your posts acquire some integrity and/or connection with reality, I may respond to them. Until then I shall treat them as the fictional trash they are and ignore them.

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