RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (Full Version)

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seekingreality -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/5/2013 9:56:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin

Food for thought

Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?n



I think that's a simplistic way of looking at a relationship. If it's a good relationship, it's not a question of who holds "power"; ideally, each person is empowered because they get what they want out of it.

Ultimately, every relationship, even a sub-dom relationship, is a negotiation. People have different needs and wants. They're are always compromise.

If you have to think in terms of who has power, it probably won't last.



GotSteel -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/5/2013 10:09:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
The conclusion that myself and my former sub came to is, the submission of one to another is a gift.

Did you also come to the conclusion that dominance is a gift?

Nope we just get to be kinky santa clause[:'(]


I don't think it necessarily has to be meant that way but I've seen it enough in the "you should feel privileged that I allow you to fulfill my every sexual desire" positions that it kind of raises a red flag.



njlauren -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/5/2013 10:16:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

that's very well said, njlauren ^_^ i don't view submission as more a gift than dominance. for me, dominance is an enormous "gift;" i don't really see what D/M-folks get out of it, so when I have that, in a real, tangible way, i'm incredibly grateful for it.
but i agree with you - the "gift" we give each other is the space and freedom to be who we each are. that's pretty spectacular, really.

Quite spectacular, and I think if people did that in all relationships a lot more, the space and freedom to be ourselves, rather then what other people have told us we should be, I think there would be a lot more happy relationships out there:)



Focus50 -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/6/2013 2:20:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

I am not so certain submission is a gift per se, because a gift means giving something away to someone else.... <snip>


To finish this sentence (my apologies, btw) - a gift means giving something away to someone else without an expectation of anything in return.

And "the gift of submission" I've experienced over the years just isn't that...!

Focus.



catize -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/6/2013 7:38:28 AM)

quote:

 Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? 



Let's look at the definitions of hold vs wield.
To hold can mean to clasp, clench, clutch.
To wield can mean to exert, maintain.
If one holds all the power, as in tyranny, they will lose it. If one is so concerned about whether or not they hold all the power, they will, again, lose it.
The dominant partner wields the power, which in turn, empowers the submissive partner. This is why it is called a power exchange, because this way, both dominant and submissive are fulfilled within their relationship.



zpenguin -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/6/2013 7:01:25 PM)

wow people are still talking about this? seriously??



littlewonder -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/6/2013 7:05:52 PM)

why surprising? Many discussions go on here for twice as many or more pages than this. This is actually unusual as in not as many posts as there usually are.




TNDommeK -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/7/2013 6:55:35 AM)

You outta check out the fin domme thread..it's like 60 pages lol.



AzSubBound2Love -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/11/2013 7:22:01 AM)

In my case, I relinquished my power to Sir and Mistress when I agreed to be Theirs. We have a 24/7 power exchange. During our negotiations I had the opportunity to discuss any and all limits. With the exception of my finances, They have all control. Do I think I hold the power in a round about way? No. My choice is to submit to Them and abide by their rules or walk away. Yes I have a voice and I can and do express opinions. I also trust Them more than I have ever trusted anyone and know everything They do is in our best interest.



JeffBC -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/11/2013 11:36:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?

You know the more I've been thinking about this the more I think that this is a pointless question. If you're asking it then you're not in a D/s relationship and probably not ready to be in one.

Sure, in the end there's all sorts of nuance to the answers because power is a nuanced thing. But if you're in a relationship and you don't clearly get who's calling the shots and who's obeying then there's something fantastically wrong. If you're not in a relationship and you aren't very clear on who you want to be calling the shots and who should be obeying then you probably ought to give some more thought to it before starting a D/s relationship.

This last bit is for me personally. I don't think I'd even consider getting involved with anyone for any purpose if "who had the power" was a significant question in their mind. That'd pretty much tell me that person isn't ready for anything I'd consider a relationship with or without an authority dynamic. And I personally would not grant authority to any person for whom "power" was their primary goal. If you want to know how that works out you can simply look at Washington DC.



LizDeluxe -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/12/2013 11:42:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zpenguin
Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship?


The person who is making the decisions is obviously in charge. It is not always obvious who that party is. It doesn't always follow dominant/submissive lines. Sometimes the dominant is truly calling the shots. Other times the submissive is really the one in charge (I think this case is more common) by virtue of the fact that they can veto certain activities as limits and by reserving the right to cease all activity through safe words. Sometimes it is a mix of the two as it is in my situation. They have the decision to play or not but once they decide to do so it is understood that I make the decisions for the duration of our time together. Sometimes it's like a marriage in that it's almost impossible to determine who is in charge. Heh.



Dyfrynt -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/12/2013 1:56:46 PM)

I believe it is to the better that we are still discussing this, and that it continue to be discussed. Why? Because there are an awful lot of people out there, on both sides of the whip, who don't clearly understand where the boundaries are. It may come as a surprise to some that Doms can sometimes be as unsure as their subs.

What am I supposed to do? What is right to do? What is wrong to do? What is going too far? What makes me look weaker than a Dom should?

And for the subs it is what should I accept? When do I get to say no? How do I get to say no. What actions make me look not submissive enough? Should I accept beyond my comfort zone to please my Master?

My wish for everyone would be to STOP, and think about a BDSM relationship like any other kind of relationship. Because that is just what it is. A relationship. What is "right" and what is "wrong" is dependent on the two (or more!) people involved. Because this is a very intense kind of relationship, people need to know what it is they want and what it is they do not. The more you understand about your own fantasies and limits, the better you will be able to set the proper boundaries.

The best relationships are built around people who have a clear understanding of themselves before all else. Along with an ability to clearly communicate that information to their partner.

Liz made a very good point which I couldn't have said better "(The sub) has the decision to play or not, but once they decide to do so it is understood that (The Master) make the decisions for the duration of the time together." This is the power exchange I have always adhered to. This gives the sub the "power" to agree to the experience, and gives the Master the "power" to take complete control of the situation from that point on.

I would only add that for this power exchange to be successful there has to be complete trust between the two that barriers that have been set will never be broken.




zpenguin -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/12/2013 7:18:51 PM)

Great answer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt

I believe it is to the better that we are still discussing this, and that it continue to be discussed. Why? Because there are an awful lot of people out there, on both sides of the whip, who don't clearly understand where the boundaries are. It may come as a surprise to some that Doms can sometimes be as unsure as their subs.

What am I supposed to do? What is right to do? What is wrong to do? What is going too far? What makes me look weaker than a Dom should?

And for the subs it is what should I accept? When do I get to say no? How do I get to say no. What actions make me look not submissive enough? Should I accept beyond my comfort zone to please my Master?

My wish for everyone would be to STOP, and think about a BDSM relationship like any other kind of relationship. Because that is just what it is. A relationship. What is "right" and what is "wrong" is dependent on the two (or more!) people involved. Because this is a very intense kind of relationship, people need to know what it is they want and what it is they do not. The more you understand about your own fantasies and limits, the better you will be able to set the proper boundaries.

The best relationships are built around people who have a clear understanding of themselves before all else. Along with an ability to clearly communicate that information to their partner.

Liz made a very good point which I couldn't have said better "(The sub) has the decision to play or not, but once they decide to do so it is understood that (The Master) make the decisions for the duration of the time together." This is the power exchange I have always adhered to. This gives the sub the "power" to agree to the experience, and gives the Master the "power" to take complete control of the situation from that point on.

I would only add that for this power exchange to be successful there has to be complete trust between the two that barriers that have been set will never be broken.






njlauren -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/12/2013 9:56:52 PM)

Okay, that's it, I am doing an Al Haigh, I have the power, always will...so there:)



zpenguin -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/12/2013 9:59:53 PM)

[sm=popcorn.gif]



JeffBC -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/13/2013 7:56:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt
What am I supposed to do? What is right to do? What is wrong to do? What is going too far? What makes me look weaker than a Dom should?

The day I start worrying about what I am "supposed" to do and/or what "looks weak" is the day I stop saying I am "dominant".

I'm going to take a different tack here. The one who has the power is the one who has more personal power. "Personal power" is the phrase I use to describe a thing similar to "BDSM dominance" but different. It's the power someone has independent of boxes on org charts and labels and fancy titles. It's the control you are able to exert over the world around you simply because you are you. In experiential terms, it is that thing which enables a "natural born leader" to walk into a room of strangers and take over the meeting... call it "charisma" or something else if you'd like. But some people have it and others don't.

Between Carol and I, I have more personal power and I always will. That puts me in charge of this relationship whether or not either of us wants it to be that way for the duration of the relationship. It really doesn't have much to do with trust and it has nothing whatsoever to do with agreements and boundaries. It is simply that which is.

In other words, at the surface level, I'm in charge. period.



Dyfrynt -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/13/2013 11:08:54 AM)

Couldn't agree with you more Jeff. My point wasn't directed at people who already understand the dynamic. It was for a whole lot of people who are still very unsure about it.



TNDommeK -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/13/2013 11:38:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


The day I start worrying about what I am "supposed" to do and/or what "looks weak" is the day I stop saying I am "dominant".




This 100%
I think if someone is worried how they look as far as weak, or how they are "supposed" to do anything, that's fake. A lion doesn't have to prove it is a lion, it either is or isn't.



JeffBC -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/13/2013 12:07:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
A lion doesn't have to prove it is a lion, it either is or isn't.

*nods* Nor does gravity need to prove whether it is real or not. If you wanna know you simply step off a cliff and then the "reality" of gravity will be clearly determined one way or the other. There's no particular need to speculate and theorize and provide "supporting evidence". And nobody needs to put up a sign at the edge of that cliff saying, "Warning: Gravity zone ahead"



NuevaVida -> RE: Who really holds the power in a D/s relationship? (3/14/2013 4:57:47 PM)

Haven't read the responses. We both have power. The way we wield or cede it ebbs and flows based on the situation. We are not in a power comparison or competition, and the subject of power has never come up between us. Sometimes I influence his power and sometimes he uses or channels mine. Sometimes I am powerless to him and other times I'm a powerful force in his life.

As for the "end the relationship" subject, either of us can do that, and neither of us would fathom using that argument as a way of holding power.



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