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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 4:12:49 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

You don't know that he was sitting on his chest at the moment cleared the holster, and even if he was, the gun would be easy to pull by turning your hip a couple inches.

A crossdraw or front carry eliminates also those arguments.

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(in reply to Raiikun)

Post #: 221

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 4:27:59 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

not confused at all, saying you do not need to follow, is a clear as it can be, its thier way of saying, we aren't telling you NOT TO do it and we aren't telling you to do it, the CLASSIC we wash our hands of any responsibility statment

In my experience, "you don't need to do that" is a 'feminine' way of telling a male caller "don't fucking do that!".

Was the 911 operator by any chance a woman?

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 222

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 4:46:10 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have one question, why couldnt zimmerman have shot and disabled martin so that he was not a threat? I mean one round through a knee cap and he would be immobilized.

This course of action would undoubtedly lead to a law suit by the "harmless" victim

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Post #: 223

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 4:50:12 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
the GF who was on the phone with Tray up until a moment before he was shot

Ah: the motive for Martin to attack Zimmerman. Bragging to and impressing his girlfriend by picking a fight and beating up a stranger. Martin was trying to improve his reproductive success, There is intent.

Weird that I did not see that before.

_____________________________

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(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 224

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 4:58:16 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You dont need to follow is not the same as.. follow if you want too.

Thats pretty basic.

For contrast, from a conversation with AMK (our 911 equivalent) here:

Me: Would you like me to investigate?
AMK: No. Keep your distance. I say again: do not approach.

Much clearer in my opinion, particularly for aspies, ESLers, children, etc., etc., etc.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 225

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 5:10:15 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

We know who the killer is.

We also know there is a big difference between killer and murderer.

We`re work`n that out right now buddy.......no thanks to his fans.

Or those longing for a human sacrifice.
The only proven racial profiling was when Martin referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracker.

Yes but DK has already explained that "creepy ass cracker" is just another way of saying his family has been in the state for a really long time. No racial jab there

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 6/28/2013 5:15:27 AM >

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Post #: 226

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 5:41:07 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Still,it begs the question,does the initiator/aggressor(George) get to claim victimhood after he gets his ass kicked, picking a fight with the wrong guy?

No.

1) Nothing in evidence proves George to be the aggressor.
2) There is a statute that let's the aggressor use dearly force if he is unable to escape the attack on him.

The Defense's claim covers George either way, and has to be disproven beyond a reasonable doubt.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 227

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 5:47:27 AM

Raiikun

Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

not confused at all, saying you do not need to follow, is a clear as it can be, its thier way of saying, we aren't telling you NOT TO do it and we aren't telling you to do it, the CLASSIC we wash our hands of any responsibility statment

In my experience, "you don't need to do that" is a 'feminine' way of telling a male caller "don't fucking do that!".

Was the 911 operator by any chance a woman?

IWYW,
— Aswad.

No. The NEN operator ( it wasn't 911 ) was Sean Noffke. He has already testified that he gave no order to stop following.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 228

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 6:05:02 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Yes but DK has already explained that "creepy ass cracker" is just another way of saying his family has been in the state for a really long time. No racial jab there

This entire story is about race in America . . . the nature and experiences of the players, the burglaries in a racially changing neighborhood, the black on brown brown on black conflict, the incident itself, the lack of police action, the media lynching of Zimmerman, the testimony of Martin's friend, the trial with six white jurors sitting in judgment, and the root story of America. If you don't understand that you don't understand America.

Given all that, I think Zimmer, fearing for his life, was justified in shooting Martin. I hope he gets free, although he will continue to fear for his life. However, not so much as he will being in prison. There he will be dead man walking until some gangsta slips it to him.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 229

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 6:06:15 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
the GF who was on the phone with Tray up until a moment before he was shot

Ah: the motive for Martin to attack Zimmerman. Bragging to and impressing his girlfriend by picking a fight and beating up a stranger. Martin was trying to improve his reproductive success, There is intent.

Weird that I did not see that before.

Very insightful.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/28/2013 6:35:45 AM >

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 230

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 6:20:50 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

No. The NEN operator ( it wasn't 911 ) was Sean Noffke. He has already testified that he gave no order to stop following.

Noffke told the Sanford caller, George Zimmerman, not to follow "the suspicious" man.

"We don't need you to do that," Noffke said in the recorded conversation.

During his testimony June 24, Noffke added that he was trained to avoid giving callers direct orders to avoid liability.

I would expect a child not to listen. I would expect a grown adult with watch training to actually... you know... listen to both his training and what the dispatcher tells him.

Or are you saying Z is the kind of man that has to be told directly not to touch the eye of the stove because its red?

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Post #: 231

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 7:19:35 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

quote:

Owner post 215: You start a fight, anything bad that happens......to yourself...... or the victim, even accidentally....is on you.

This notion, that you keep pushing, Owner, has no foundation in Common law or US law or common sense.

Actually it does, part of the legal basis for self defense is that you were not the aggressor. For instance in Florida
http://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/fl-776-041%E2%80%83use-of-force-by-aggressor-the-justification-described-in-the-preceding-sections-of-this-chapter-is-not-available-to-a-person-who/

Zimmerman has to argue that either his behavior doesn't rise to the legal standard of being the aggressor or that Martin was so violent that he falls under 2(a).

Wrong. Zimmerman doesn't have to argue anything. He's innocent until proven guilty. It is the State which has to argue and, moreover, prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of the crime they charged him with.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 232

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 7:53:14 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

FR

Watching Jonathon Good's eyewitness testimony putting Martin straddling on top of Zimmerman in a 'ground and pound' position and Zimmerman calling for help. Gotta wonder why the prosecutor called this neighbor to the witness stand.

(in reply to RacerJim)

Post #: 233

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:02:23 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

FR

Watching Jonathon Good's eyewitness testimony putting Martin straddling on top of Zimmerman in a 'ground and pound' position and Zimmerman calling for help. Gotta wonder why the prosecutor called this neighbor to the witness stand.

No witness the State has called thus far has testified they saw who initiated the physical altercation. An IT witness the State called yesterday testified that the security cameras at the location were not working that night, so there's no video of it. Gotta wonder what other witnesses or evidence the State has to justify charging Zimmerman.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 234

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:14:04 AM

lovmuffin

Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why? When you go house hunting, do you intend to kill the house? Job hunting, do you intend to kill the job?

Now you're being ridiculous. Hunting without the adjectives mean a totally different thing though many do kill the job during the interview. It's even more ridiculous reading all the made up theories other than the simple fact that TM was shot because he was beating Zimmys ass into the ground. As some one else stated, this is a show trial to pacify the race baiters and other segments of the general public.

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 235

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:17:21 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why? When you go house hunting, do you intend to kill the house? Job hunting, do you intend to kill the job?

When you are afraid of someone who is chasing you, do you call your boyfriend/girlfriend or 911? When you call your boyfriend/girlfriend after you've "lost" the person chasing you and you tell them you're outside your home, do you double-back to see if that person is still chasing you or do go inside your home and call 911?

Good luck to the State in proving Zimmerman intended to kill Martin.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 236

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:35:52 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

A Neighborhood watch consists of 'watching' It doesn't consist of gunning someone down.

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Post #: 237

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:44:47 AM

RacerJim

Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

A Neighborhood watch consists of 'watching' It doesn't consist of gunning someone down.

Watching someone who's walking/running consists of moving in order to keep watching them. That is not gunning someone down.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 238

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:47:23 AM

MasterCaneman

Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why? When you go house hunting, do you intend to kill the house? Job hunting, do you intend to kill the job?

When you are afraid of someone who is chasing you, do you call your boyfriend/girlfriend or 911? When you call your boyfriend/girlfriend after you've "lost" the person chasing you and you tell them you're outside your home, do you double-back to see if that person is still chasing you or do go inside your home and call 911?

Good luck to the State in proving Zimmerman intended to kill Martin.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate with this one. Martin belongs(ed) to a culture that as a rule doesn't like to get the police involved. Not because he may have been up to something, as per se, but because of prior negative dealings with the law. A lot of innocent people get busted solely on the color of their skin, that's a simple fact.

Another reason Martin didn't/wouldn't call 911 was because he was a 17 year old male. At 17, I was dumb as a box of rocks with too many hormones, and I think he saw this as a way to improve his street cred when he saw he was being tailed by a porky white guy with a shaved head. My guess is that Martin decided to teach the guy a lesson, and was doing so when Zimmerman shot him.

My personal opinion, based on what I've seen and read on this matter is: two guys did some stupid things that night. One died as a result of it. I am also belabored by knowing that my information is purely second-hand, disseminated by outlets that may or may not have personal agendas they wish to press. There are only two people who truly witnessed this event, and only one can talk.

The DA isn't prosecuting Zimmerman for what he did, he's doing it out of fear of what may happen if he doesn't. Whether it's losing the next election to being partly responsible for a riot. Politics, not justice, are in play here.

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The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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(in reply to RacerJim)

Post #: 239

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/28/2013 8:55:48 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

After hearing all the arguments again, I mean come on, all this was done when the actual shooting took place, let's acquit Zimmerman of all crimes, dig up Martin, try him for being black in a mostly white neighborhood and acting suspicious in said neighborhood, find him guilty, sentence the his corpse to 20 years, move the clock back 50 years and declare open season on African Americans and any minority that resembles an African American after sundown.

This will appease those that think following and shooting an unarmed black american youth, after putting him on the defensive by following him, happy.

Of course if I am out for a walk after dark and notice someone following me, I am going to get a bit concerned, and probably confront the guy. If he gives me some bullshit that basically says he knows I was up to something illegal because of my skin color or some other bullshit, I would not attack him, but I would get his name and address so that when I called my lawyer he would be able to get the information needed to file a civil rights suit against the asshole.

I am an old guy, and yes I can hold my own in a fight, and I would probably have a larger caliber pistol than zimmerman had, of course the pepper spray I carry to ward off the occasional wild critter would do nicely too. I mean the stuff I carry is formulated to get large bears to leave you the hell alone, so it would probably do a number on human eyes and skin.

But then as one person pointed out, I am an ass sometimes.

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(in reply to RacerJim)

Post #: 240

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