RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 5:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? Why don't you first explain why he would be. Have a lot of experience shooting people in the chest at close range do you? K.

Wendel27 -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 5:53:10 PM)
''How did Zimmerman get his gun out of his waistband and shoot Martin in the chest if Martin was sitting on his chest pummeling him on the head?'' I don't know it was a fight. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility. If someone's on top of you hitting you in the head it seems reasonably likely that one could hold up an arm to try and ward off blows while reaching with your other hand. Again i've no idea if that is what happened...but I do know that the argument that it is phyically impossible seems extremely far fetched. ''Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? '' That would be a matter for ballistics and forensics to discover. There are so many factors as to make it impossible for me to say. Though once again it is well within the realms of possibility.

DomKen -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 5:58:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 ''How did Zimmerman get his gun out of his waistband and shoot Martin in the chest if Martin was sitting on his chest pummeling him on the head?'' I don't know it was a fight. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility. If someone's on top of you hitting you in the head it seems reasonably likely that one could hold up an arm to try and ward off blows while reaching with your other hand. Again i've no idea if that is what happened...but I do know that the argument that it is phyically impossible seems extremely far fetched. ''Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? '' That would be a matter for ballistics and forensics to discover. There are so many factors as to make it impossible for me to say. Though once again it is well within the realms of possibility. Try it. Have someone sit on your chest and try and reach your waistband. You find a problem, either he's actually straddling you kneeling with your arms inside his legs and pinned or they are outside and blocking access to your waistband. He claims he shot Martin in the chest at point blank range and then had to get out from under him and stand up. We have photos and video of him both at the scene and at the police station afterwards no blood at all is on his clothes.

MrRodgers -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:01:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun This is the Trayvon that George met BTW: [image]http://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/trayvon-muscles.jpg[/image] Oh I am sure this Zimm. guy was just shaking in his boots. 'I guess I must shoot first and ask questions later.'

DomKen -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:03:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Go down to rural Georgia or Florida and ask around or not and continue to be wrong. Like you did? [:D] K. I'm from there.

Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I'm from there. Then you know your argument is bullshit. K.

Wendel27 -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:04:07 PM)
I have tried it. I've had people straddling me before and i've been able to reach my utility belt to grab things out of it. There are so many variables that to argue it's physically impossible is just not true. When two people are struggling everything is fluid positions just aren't static. Which doesn't preclude him from shooting someone in the chest at a point blank range. Again there are so many variables. What Mr Martin was wearing, his position, the angle of the bullet's trajectory, how he moved at the instanst the trigger was pulled. There are so many possibilities that we simoly can't say that Mr Zimmerman's story is nonsense. It may be the evidence for this, if it's there, isn't from these two points.

DomKen -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? Why don't you first explain why he would be. Have a lot of experience shooting people in the chest at close range do you? K. He shot in the chest with the bullet entering his heart. he would have bled profusely and the last few pumps of the heart would have sprayed that blood out the wound. Anyway the autopsy says he wasn't shot at point blank range so Zimmerman is lying. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

DomKen -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:05:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 I have tried it. I've had people straddling me before and i've been able to reach my utility belt to grab things out of it. There are so many variables that to argue it's physically impossible is just not true. When two people are struggling everything is fluid positions just aren't static. Which doesn't preclude him from shooting someone in the chest at a point blank range. Again there are so many variables. What Mr Martin was wearing, his position, the angle of the bullet's trajectory, how he moved at the instanst the trigger was pulled. There are so many possibilities that we simoly can't say that Mr Zimmerman's story is nonsense. It may be the evidence for this, if it's there, isn't from these two points. Those facts and the autopsy report establish it pretty conclusively. He shot Martin from several feet away.

Rule -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:07:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen either he's actually straddling you kneeling with your arms inside his legs and pinned or they are outside and blocking access to your waistband. Zimmerman was being mauled by Martin. Where do you have your arms when you lie on the ground and someone is damaging your head with his fists? I therefore deem it extremely unlikely that Zimmerman's arms were pinned.

Wendel27 -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:10:16 PM)
''Those facts and the autopsy report establish it pretty conclusively. He shot Martin from several feet away.'' Well if that's correct than Mr Zimmerman's argument is much weaker. Dependent on what several feet away means. I could easily conceive of two or three feet still being imminent. If we're talking half a dozen or so that makes it seem far less like self defence.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:14:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 I've seen pictures that showed a great deal of blood coming from his nose and it looked heavily swollen...though possibly it had been broken for I don't know. The severity of the injury received is not what determines if a claim of self defence is justified or not it is the level of reasonable fear felt. If the reports of Mr. Martin atop Mr. Zimmerman hitting him in the head are true [and i'm not saying that they are] then a plea of self defence is quite reasonable. If you are lying down and someone is punching you in the head any one of those blows has the potential to be lethal or life altering. How did Zimmerman get his gun out of his waistband and shoot Martin in the chest if Martin was sitting on his chest pummeling him on the head? Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? Tray on was on George but they were moving along the ground. You don't know that he was sitting on his chest at the moment cleared the holster, and even if he was, the gun would be easy to pull by turning your hip a couple inches.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 I have tried it. I've had people straddling me before and i've been able to reach my utility belt to grab things out of it. There are so many variables that to argue it's physically impossible is just not true. When two people are struggling everything is fluid positions just aren't static. Which doesn't preclude him from shooting someone in the chest at a point blank range. Again there are so many variables. What Mr Martin was wearing, his position, the angle of the bullet's trajectory, how he moved at the instanst the trigger was pulled. There are so many possibilities that we simoly can't say that Mr Zimmerman's story is nonsense. It may be the evidence for this, if it's there, isn't from these two points. Those facts and the autopsy report establish it pretty conclusively. He shot Martin from several feet away. Contact shot to Trayvon's sweatshirt. That has already been in agreement in court by both the State and Defense. John Guy for the prosecution in opening statements melodramatically described how the gun was pressed up to Trayvon's chest as he pulled the trigger.

Rule -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:21:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen from an unarmed teenager. Martin had two arms and used them to inflict damage to Zimmerman's body.

Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:22:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He shot in the chest with the bullet entering his heart. he would have bled profusely and the last few pumps of the heart would have sprayed that blood out the wound. You're just making shit up. The autopsy indicates that he bled into his lungs. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Anyway the autopsy says he wasn't shot at point blank range so Zimmerman is lying. More bullshit. A 2" stippling pattern is entirely consistent with point blank range. In external ballistics, point-blank range is the distance between a firearm and a target of a given size such that the bullet in flight is expected to strike the target without adjusting the elevation of the firearm. The point-blank range will vary with the firearm and its particular ballistic characteristics, as well as the target chosen. A firearm with a flatter trajectory will permit a farther maximum point-blank range for a given target size, while a larger target will allow for a longer point-blank range for a given firearm. In forensics and popular usage, point-blank range has come to mean extremely close range (i.e., target within about a meter (3 ft) of the muzzle at moment of discharge ~Source K.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:22:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wendel27 ''How did Zimmerman get his gun out of his waistband and shoot Martin in the chest if Martin was sitting on his chest pummeling him on the head?'' I don't know it was a fight. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility. If someone's on top of you hitting you in the head it seems reasonably likely that one could hold up an arm to try and ward off blows while reaching with your other hand. Again i've no idea if that is what happened...but I do know that the argument that it is phyically impossible seems extremely far fetched. ''Why was Zimmerman not drenched in Martin's blood after having shot him in the chest while Martin was on top of him? '' That would be a matter for ballistics and forensics to discover. There are so many factors as to make it impossible for me to say. Though once again it is well within the realms of possibility. Trayvon only had a small hole in his chest, most of the bleeding was internal, pooling into his chest cavity George still got traces of blood on his jacket though from the shot. Ken has shown nothing that hasn't been refuted by the evidence last year.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:25:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen He shot in the chest with the bullet entering his heart. he would have bled profusely and the last few pumps of the heart would have sprayed that blood out the wound. You're just making shit up. The autopsy indicates that he bled into his lungs. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Anyway the autopsy says he wasn't shot at point blank range so Zimmerman is lying. More bullshit. A 2" stippling pattern is entirely consistent with point blank range. In external ballistics, point-blank range is the distance between a firearm and a target of a given size such that the bullet in flight is expected to strike the target without adjusting the elevation of the firearm. The point-blank range will vary with the firearm and its particular ballistic characteristics, as well as the target chosen. A firearm with a flatter trajectory will permit a farther maximum point-blank range for a given target size, while a larger target will allow for a longer point-blank range for a given firearm. In forensics and popular usage, point-blank range has come to mean extremely close range (i.e., target within about a meter (3 ft) of the muzzle at moment of discharge ~Source K. Contact shot to sweatshirt according to firearms examiner, 2-4 inches from skin to cause the stippling. Trayvon was on top of George leaning over him, causing shirt to hang from his skin as the shot was fired.

Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:25:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Contact shot to Trayvon's sweatshirt. That has already been in agreement in court by both the State and Defense. John Guy for the prosecution in opening statements melodramatically described how the gun was pressed up to Trayvon's chest as he pulled the trigger. The prosecution is full of shit. That claim contradicts their own autopsy. You don't get a 2" stippling pattern from a contact shot. The muzzle of the weapon had to be at least several inches away from the skin when fired. K.

Kirata -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Contact shot to sweatshirt according to firearms examiner, 2-4 inches from skin to cause the stippling. Trayvon was on top of George leaning over him, causing shirt to hang from his skin as the shot was fired. Yes, there ya go. K.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE (6/27/2013 6:27:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Contact shot to Trayvon's sweatshirt. That has already been in agreement in court by both the State and Defense. John Guy for the prosecution in opening statements melodramatically described how the gun was pressed up to Trayvon's chest as he pulled the trigger. The prosecution is full of shit. That claim contradicts their own autopsy. You don't get a 2" stippling pattern from a contact shot. The muzzle of the weapon had to be at least several inches away from the skin when fired. K. Yep, as the Defense pointed out in their opening, the contact was only to the sweatshirt. I just mentioned that to point out even the prosecution disagrees that it was "several feet away".

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