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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:30:34 AM

Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you are going to go from GZs broken nose, GZs lacerated head, TMs bruised knuckles to Trayon Martin assaulting Zimmerman, you need to go STEP BY STEP building a foundation of evidence proving beyond reasonable doubt EVERY STEP OF THE WAY proving each point.

No we don't. In this country the accused is granted the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty. It's not up to us to prove Zimmerman right. It's up to the prosecutor to prove him guilty. And so far all the prosecution has done is support Zimmerman's claims in front of the jury and the rest of the world.

Then explain why every assertion that Trayvon Martin is responsible for Zimmerman's injury has been objected to on grounds of assuming facts not in evidence, and those objections sustained if you do NOT have to build a 'proper foundation'.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:31:39 AM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Yup. Created as Zimmerman viciously attacked Martin's knockles with his face.

4th finger... bunch up your fist. My middle finger knuckle juts out much farther, doesnt yours? Would seem to me... and I only have a medical background, that punches thrown would also result in an abrasion to that knuckle as well. No lacerations to the hands or anywhere else.... just that one knuckle.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:31:45 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

A. By inference, Deedee.
B. The map.
C. The 911 call.
D. All of the above.

Choose wisely. Choose D.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:34:37 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Because there's a whole lot of doubt about Zimmerman's credibility

Well, if Zimmerman is not credible, then we have to discredit his assertion that he shot Martin.

Ergo, since the only other person present with access to Zimmerman's gun was Martin, we must conclude that Martin shot himself! Q.E.D.

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:34:56 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

No we don't. In this country the accused is granted the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty. It's not up to us to prove Zimmerman right. It's up to the prosecutor to prove him guilty. And so far all the prosecution has done is support Zimmerman's claims in front of the jury and the rest of the world.

quote:

Then explain why every assertion that Trayvon Martin is responsible for Zimmerman's injury has been objected to on grounds of assuming facts not in evidence, and those objections sustained if you do NOT have to build a 'proper foundation'.

C'mon with the strawmen FB.
The two statements- DMs and your own- are not even contradictory.
Try harder

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:36:28 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Like you, as an adult, I handle such situations with no issue. As a seventeen yr. old (and younger) I was freaked out and pissed off in that situation.

Trayvon Martin was evidently sufficiently pissed off about it that he assaulted a man over it.

Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

There's just no getting around it. From Jenteal to forensics:
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

Which makes the fight one born from rage and "pissed off", not fear. Not wanna be cop. Not racism. Born from Trayvon Martin's (frequently expressed) rage.

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his truck?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:36:30 AM

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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

A. By inference, Deedee.
B. The map.
C. The 911 call.
D. All of the above.

Choose wisely. Choose D.

He is on 911 saying he is returning to the truck? Again, only his word if he did.

The map now talks to you? The map shows position, all according to Zimmerman.

Inference doesnt mean jack, according to you and others... proof does.. and all we have for proof that he was returning to his truck is.. yep... Z

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/2/2013 6:37:23 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:36:59 AM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
The point is that one person following another has historically been considered as an act of aggression and ill intent.

No it hasn't. That's your assumption and it would be an incorrect one. Never played "follow the leader" on the playground as a kid?

OK, so you grew up in a sand box and never ventured further than the playground.

Now I understand. Sorry to have troubled you.

If I grew up in a sandbox....where'd you grow up? Nazi Germany? Not everyone outside walking is "out to get you."

I'm not the troubled one. I just hope you seek out the help you need.

(in reply to Edwynn)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:37:12 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Depends on the exact angle of the fist when it strikes its target.
Depends on what knuckle hits what (tooth, bone, flesh)
I'm fairly flat-fisted across the knuckles, uneven damage is to be expected...

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:37:55 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

No we don't. In this country the accused is granted the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty. It's not up to us to prove Zimmerman right. It's up to the prosecutor to prove him guilty. And so far all the prosecution has done is support Zimmerman's claims in front of the jury and the rest of the world.

quote:

Then explain why every assertion that Trayvon Martin is responsible for Zimmerman's injury has been objected to on grounds of assuming facts not in evidence, and those objections sustained if you do NOT have to build a 'proper foundation'.

C'mon with the strawmen FB.
The two statements- DMs and your own- are not even contradictory.
Try harder

Don't argue with me. Argue with the Trial Judge, who is sustaining every objection against it. From the Jury's P.O.V., there's no evidence to support that assertion.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:38:01 AM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

Who said he was returning to his truck beyond Z?

Who said he wasn't other than...no one?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:38:09 AM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Depends on the exact angle of the fist when it strikes its target.
Depends on what knuckle hits what (tooth, bone, flesh)
I'm fairly flat-fisted across the knuckles, uneven damage is to be expected...

Repeated blows.. and only one small abrasion.. not even a cut.. and you insist that is possible. LOL

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:38:46 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his truck?

See #1283 or #1287

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:39:18 AM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
If you are going to go from GZs broken nose, GZs lacerated head, TMs bruised knuckles to Trayon Martin assaulting Zimmerman, you need to go STEP BY STEP building a foundation of evidence proving beyond reasonable doubt EVERY STEP OF THE WAY proving each point.

No we don't. In this country the accused is granted the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty. It's not up to us to prove Zimmerman right. It's up to the prosecutor to prove him guilty. And so far all the prosecution has done is support Zimmerman's claims in front of the jury and the rest of the world.

Then explain why every assertion that Trayvon Martin is responsible for Zimmerman's injury has been objected to on grounds of assuming facts not in evidence, and those objections sustained if you do NOT have to build a 'proper foundation'.

You're not even watching the trial then, clearly. Because it is still currently the prosecution's turn to bring witnesses, they haven't even gotten to the injuries yet. Yet each and every "witness" the prosecution has put on the stand has done nothing but HELP Zimmerman's case.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:40:28 AM

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Like you, as an adult, I handle such situations with no issue. As a seventeen yr. old (and younger) I was freaked out and pissed off in that situation.

Trayvon Martin was evidently sufficiently pissed off about it that he assaulted a man over it.

Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

There's just no getting around it. From Jenteal to forensics:
Zimmerman was returning to his truck.

Which makes the fight one born from rage and "pissed off", not fear. Not wanna be cop. Not racism. Born from Trayvon Martin's (frequently expressed) rage.

I made a mistake in thinking that you were up for intelligent discussion. 'My bad,' as they say.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:40:32 AM

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman was returning to his truck?

See #1283 or #1287

In other words... only Z's word for it. Gotcha

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:40:53 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

Explain how they help Zimmerman overcome the limited requirements for deadly force.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:41:24 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
4th finger... bunch up your fist. My middle finger knuckle juts out much farther, doesnt yours?

Mine does jut out about three or four millimeters if taking the adjacent knuckles as baseline. In a female hand it may be more?

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:42:09 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

The map shows position, all according to Zimmerman.

No no no
The maps of the crime scene show the truck, the apartment, the body, a wealth of detail down to smaller objects, the positions of all of which support Zimmermans story, which is in turn supported by Deedees assertion that Martin returned almost all the way back to his apartment

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 7/2/2013 6:43:51 AM

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Depends on the exact angle of the fist when it strikes its target.
Depends on what knuckle hits what (tooth, bone, flesh)
I'm fairly flat-fisted across the knuckles, uneven damage is to be expected...

Repeated blows.. and only one small abrasion.. not even a cut.. and you insist that is possible. LOL

If that's where you're going to hang your hat...you need to move onto another point. You've clearly never been in a serious fight. And even if you have...it obviously doesn't play out the same way each and every time.

I've punched:
1) Concrete walls -- not a mark.
2) Hesco walls (temporary cardboard boxes filled with sand and wrapped in what's essentially chain-link fence material) -- no marks.
3) Other people -- no marks.

I've gotten more marks from over-drying my hands with repeated washing than I have punching things.

I've also punched some of the above mentioned things and gotten marks. But that just goes to show it doesn't happen the same with each punch. Some get marks, some do not.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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