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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 12:00:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I grew up in the Midwest, didn't move here till early 80s and it was worse there
but each persons experiences are different
Do not forget it was Detroit not a southern city where all school busses were burned to avoid integration and it was Boston as well as Little Rock that shut down their systems to avoid integration. 

Then you're an outsider. My family has lived in the South as long as there has been a nation. My family and their friends will say stuff in front of me that they would never say to an outsider, particularly a Yankee transplant which is how you are viewed by folks like them.

BTW school bus burning? Really you think that is as bad as it gets? This is what people I'm, unfortunately, related to did to people trying to protest Jim Crowe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Riders#Mob_violence_in_Anniston_and_Birmingham
Yes, people change but not all of them have and many people fed racism at their parent's knees do not ever examine their beliefs enough to change them.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 1261
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 12:00:49 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		That's right. they're time stamped and numbered. They also have a little "Quote" box in the body and in the lower right an "in reply to" indicator.

Guess what both of them are in reply to?
If you guessed 'mnottertail' you win a seegar.
Guess what he said that you replied to?

"OJ won the criminal case, but lost the civil case. He aint the onliest one done that."
Which is it? Illiterate, ignorant, bad liar? The proof is right above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Nice try. One little problem... the posts here are numbered, and time stamped... my conversation with Mastercaneman about the chances of a Zimmerman federal trial came *before* anything you are claiming I replied to.

Once again, reality doesn't put up with your shit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

So you quote one person's post and CLAIM you were actually answering someone else's post that was put up 6 pages ago.

Nice fuckin try. Did they teach you squirming and changing our stories in the academy? You seem to be really good at it.

OK, there are now 3 possibilities.

You're Ignorant

You're illiterate

You're a really sorry liar.





_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 1262
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 12:04:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I believe the only reason the Feds are going to push a civil-rights case is to assuage the black community. Nothing more, nothing less, and irregardless of whether or not there really is a case. Like just about everything else about this, it's all smoke and mirrors to placate a population. While I am no fan of Obama, in this case I think he's made the correct call in pushing this. If a civil-rights case is found lacking by a black AG directed to do so by a black President, it will go far in keeping the chance of riots down.


Except that it sets the expectations for the next time and the next time and the time after that.

Obama pushing for ANything is a terrible precedent. It nationalizes what should be a local incident, and it says that we don't trust the people we elected / hired to do the peoples business. Just like the case with the cop and the boston professor obama jumped on the wrong side.



More importantly,it compromises what is supposed to be an unbiased independent legal system.One which exists not only to protect us from each other,but perhaps more importantly,to protect us the citizens from the government.
Undercutting that damages the very nature of democracy.
It's incredibly dangerous.

It doesn't matter as long as it gets more votes in the (D) column anywhere. Which is somewhat ironic to me.

You're kidding right?

Was Bush I trying to get votes when his DoJ prosecuted the Rodney King officers after they got acquitted?

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1263
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 12:22:35 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still their responsibility


Nope, they didnt enter a contract with the company, Z did.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ais-security-sues-george-zimmerman-2012-12

he dont need em no more... he's gettin' his gun back!

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1264
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 1:08:07 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I believe the only reason the Feds are going to push a civil-rights case is to assuage the black community. Nothing more, nothing less, and irregardless of whether or not there really is a case. Like just about everything else about this, it's all smoke and mirrors to placate a population. While I am no fan of Obama, in this case I think he's made the correct call in pushing this. If a civil-rights case is found lacking by a black AG directed to do so by a black President, it will go far in keeping the chance of riots down.


Except that it sets the expectations for the next time and the next time and the time after that.

Obama pushing for ANything is a terrible precedent. It nationalizes what should be a local incident, and it says that we don't trust the people we elected / hired to do the peoples business. Just like the case with the cop and the boston professor obama jumped on the wrong side.



More importantly,it compromises what is supposed to be an unbiased independent legal system.One which exists not only to protect us from each other,but perhaps more importantly,to protect us the citizens from the government.
Undercutting that damages the very nature of democracy.
It's incredibly dangerous.

It doesn't matter as long as it gets more votes in the (D) column anywhere. Which is somewhat ironic to me.

You're kidding right?

Was Bush I trying to get votes when his DoJ prosecuted the Rodney King officers after they got acquitted?

Probably. I don't see much difference in either party, at least in how they go about solidifying their base. As well as in a bid to mollify the community there. That's why they're called politicians.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 1265
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 1:34:34 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Alan Dershowitz with some interesting comments re the prosecution and any potential Federal case

ETA-This is Kana, writing via Mousenet

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 7/15/2013 1:39:17 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1266
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 2:48:52 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still their responsibility


Nope, they didnt enter a contract with the company, Z did.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ais-security-sues-george-zimmerman-2012-12

he dont need em no more... he's gettin' his gun back!



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 1267
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 2:56:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		What gun does he got, now? I am gonna tell you those Kel Tecs are very long in trigger travel, jesus you gotta move some real estate to fire it, I never liked the fuckin things. It is OK for a cheapie I guess.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 1268
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:02:02 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Alan Dershowitz with some interesting comments re the prosecution and any potential Federal case

ETA-This is Kana, writing via Mousenet

Kana, I agree with pretty much everything Dershowitz says about the trial but I think he errs when he talks about disarming these vigilante community groups.

There is no evidence in this trial that such groups exist.

GZ was on his way to the store and not making his 'rounds' as several have imagined. So, his being armed at the time was only coincidental to his seeing Martin as a possible trouble maker. Martin could just as easily have had a gun. You don't have to apply for a permit to have a weapon. Somehow people just get them.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 1269
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:02:19 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		The withholding of evidence, and very much the attempt to knowingly file false charges of child neglect, went way across the line.
And there is every reason to suggest that the witnesses who radically changed their stories after meeting with the Martin family attorney and the prosecution, were influenced to an illegal degree.

I rarely agree with some of Dershowitz' grandstanding for the media, but he's saying what needs to be said. The judge and the jury averted a lynching.

This whole thing smells like Pink Slip Rick's vision of Florida as channeled through puppets. Those who tried to point to the US Constitution were yanked, and replaced by those willing to subvert the law.

And some posters here try to keep a straight face when they come down against Dershowitz, and support StormFront, and Skeletor.



.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Alan Dershowitz with some interesting comments re the prosecution and any potential Federal case

ETA-This is Kana, writing via Mousenet



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 1270
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:08:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Alan Dershowitz with some interesting comments re the prosecution and any potential Federal case

ETA-This is Kana, writing via Mousenet

Kana, I agree with pretty much everything Dershowitz says about the trial but I think he errs when he talks about disarming these vigilante community groups.

There is no evidence in this trial that such groups exist.

GZ was on his way to the store and not making his 'rounds' as several have imagined. So, his being armed at the time was only coincidental to his seeing Martin as a possible trouble maker. Martin could just as easily have had a gun. You don't have to apply for a permit to have a weapon. Somehow people just get them.


I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 1271
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:11:26 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		I never said otherwise.. as long as he has/gets a carry permit he is totally legally free to play wannabe cop again..
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still their responsibility


Nope, they didnt enter a contract with the company, Z did.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ais-security-sues-george-zimmerman-2012-12

he dont need em no more... he's gettin' his gun back!





_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 1272
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:16:09 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about.

Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, etc. And when he did that, he could have possibly been exposed to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. Not everyone with a CCW is a drooling, maniacal, rabid racist itching to cap a minority, you know.

< Message edited by MasterCaneman -- 7/15/2013 3:19:35 PM >

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 1273
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:20:11 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.




The effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with and know how to use.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 1274
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:20:26 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about.

Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, entertainment. And when you do that, you just may have to expose yourself to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon.

yabbut I thought the story was that Zimmy got it for the less-than desirable dogs in his subdivision.. not cuz of less-than desirable people..

eta- Zimmy said he was on his way to shop at Target.. I thought all the less-than desirable people shopped at Walmart!

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/15/2013 3:22:12 PM >

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1275
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:20:49 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		There is? Wow! What an awesome invention. Now can you explain how I can use it to block just their Personal attacks, off topic bullshit, and hijacks? Most of them have good content in posting, but if the shit to substance ratio gets any worse then it really is not worth trying to be involved in what should be intellectual discourse.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

To the poster who thinks moderation is needed- there is a block button.

- regards



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 1276
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:28:09 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.




The effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with and know how to use.

The effective handgun is the one you have with you at the time.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 1277
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:30:07 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Correct...


For once, I wasn't challenging... just adding extra information


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I never said otherwise.. as long as he has/gets a carry permit he is totally legally free to play wannabe cop again..
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still their responsibility


Nope, they didnt enter a contract with the company, Z did.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ais-security-sues-george-zimmerman-2012-12

he dont need em no more... he's gettin' his gun back!







_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 1278
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:31:56 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about.

Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, entertainment. And when you do that, you just may have to expose yourself to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon.

yabbut I thought the story was that Zimmy got it for the less-than desirable dogs in his subdivision.. not cuz of less-than desirable people..

eta- Zimmy said he was on his way to shop at Target.. I thought all the less-than desirable people shopped at Walmart!

IIRC, he originally wanted to use pepper spray for those, but was advised to use a firearm. And getting a CCW just for dogs is ludicrous, in my opinion. I only carry because I live amongst the most dangerous animal on Earth-my fellow man. But you may have a point about Walmart there...

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 1279
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/15/2013 3:36:07 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Well the advantage of the Kel Tec 's small size is that it is much easier to have with you more often.

I suspect that whatever Zimmerman bought on bail (I can't remember the brand or model, as I'm not a gun guy, but the store told Zimmerman it was his best choice.... powerful, higher capacity).

As far as 'the one you are comfortable with', practice should help with that in almost any model.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

He's had a much more effective pistol ever since his first time out on bail. There was never any question as to the right of an innocent man to own a weapon, the Kel Tec was just held as evidence.




The effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with and know how to use.

The effective handgun is the one you have with you at the time.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1280
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