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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:16:18 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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Another detail from the Tampa Bay Times data on SYG:

Where the victim was killed, the dispostion of the cases broken down by race of the accused shows the following...

Black accused - 11 convicted, 24 justified, 9 pending
White accused - 25 convicted, 40 justified, 11 pending

Source

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/18/2013 6:19:37 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1941
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:45:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Has anyone else noticed that one of our regular posters now sports a photo of himself wearing a hoodie and holding Skittles?



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 1942
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:46:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		smirks.... you are surprised?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 1943
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:52:53 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

you are surprised?

I was a bit, actually. Hadn't realized he was quite that far gone.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1944
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 7:03:42 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		:l


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 1945
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 7:10:48 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hey, best of luck, Mike

(Isn't this amazing-an unmoderated P&R CM forum actually agreeing on something for once!)

< Message edited by Kana -- 7/18/2013 7:11:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 1946
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 7:18:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

you are surprised?

I was a bit, actually. Hadn't realized he was quite that far gone.


lol.... you are so cute... many of us have known that for some time.

The fact that a grown man (so he claims) would reduce himself to the level of teenagers by "Trayvoning" (yes, please look it up) is rather pathetic.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/18/2013 7:38:58 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 1947
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 7:52:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.

How about the people who sold them to the importers?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 1948
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 7:56:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.


I guess one of the implicit assumptions of that age-restriction is that adults have an instinct to protect those who are too young to carry firearms. I'm not sure this was much in evidence in Zimmerman's actions towards Martin that night, however.

Umpteenth time how could Zimmerman have possibly know Martin's age, not like he had time to card him,

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 1949
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:20:07 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.


I guess one of the implicit assumptions of that age-restriction is that adults have an instinct to protect those who are too young to carry firearms. I'm not sure this was much in evidence in Zimmerman's actions towards Martin that night, however.


Yeah, something about having someone bang one's head into concrete would seem to make him prioritize protecting himself over protecting the guy banging his head against the ground.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 1950
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:24:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Bet he thinks twice before going after someone in the dark again.. especially if people know he lives in their neighborhood.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 1951
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:41:11 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Bet he thinks twice before going after someone in the dark again.. especially if people know he lives in their neighborhood.

oh.. O'Mara says Zimmy wears disguises when he goes out...

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1952
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:46:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Chicken shit... lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 1953
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 9:54:49 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.

i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here.


It was actually the Portuguese first, based on the business model they first established with slave-based sugarcane plantations in the Canary Islands, only a few years before discovery of the "New World." Quite propitious. Easy translation of that model to the Bahamas, Cuba, Brazil, etc., which laid the groundwork for all subsequent Atlantic slave trade.

quote:

But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power.


To answer to the quote you were responding to ("the importers and owners of black slaves"): the importers and the owners were different parties, from different continents.

The slave owners were the "one-percenters" of the day in the South. The merchants of the US Northeast and Europe bought every bit of that slave-made cotton they could get their hands on with out any hesitation. The latter made for a significantly greater number than a comparatively few wealthy plantation owners. No market for slave-made cotton => eventual end of market for slaves. No windfall profits to Europeans capturing and transporting and selling the slaves => end of market for slaves.

The Europeans banned slavery within their borders, but banning the profits from the trade was out of the question, at least at the time (just as it was out of the question to even consider banning import of slave-made cotton to the North in the US). When slavery was finally abolished in the US, that made abolition of the now dead-duck slave trade in Euro countries politically feasible.

The point being that there are many more descendants of those who profited from the slave trade and the economic benefit of the product derived thereby in power now, both in the US and in Europe, than there are descendants of former slave owners in such current position.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/18/2013 10:12:29 PM >

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1954
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 10:34:48 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
quote:

In some fairness to the Dutch, the Spanish started the slave trade, called it the Asiento. The English and the Dutch, IIRC, won it or took it (I think it was given in treaty but I don't wanna make any claims I'm not sure of and I'm too lazy to google right now.Time is tight) from the Spanish after the armada.


Slave trade has been around for millennia, but assuming limitation in this instance to the Atlantic slave trade, the Portuguese were the 'venture capitalists' in the affair, so to speak. See previous post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
~FR

Sometimes I am still amazed that 1964 was only 49 years ago.

True. In our eagerness to consign racism to the distant past, we often forget that there are folks alive today who went to segregated schools and could not vote in some places.


No question.

There are people today who grew up in segregated schools more than 15 years after forced busing, and even today with only a scant few black people in their school.

When my family moved to Illinois (after I was on my own, so didn't join in the venture), they went from a school system that was ~28-32 % black to a school system that was 100% white. It was a shock for the older kids, the younger ones being 'still in play' and not yet having in mind what was 'normal' or not.

When they shovel all the black people into S Chicago and East Gary, not much left for elsewhere, is there?

The first black person in the HS they went to arrived in 1978. My youngest brother had two black people in his senior class in 1982. That's a 100% increase, in only 4 years! Those guys were cracking on it, no doubt.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/18/2013 10:51:04 PM >

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 1955
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 10:36:58 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

you are surprised?

I was a bit, actually. Hadn't realized he was quite that far gone.

lol.... you are so cute... many of us have known that for some time.

The fact that a grown man (so he claims) would reduce himself to the level of teenagers by "Trayvoning" (yes, please look it up) is rather pathetic.

my very first thought was.. its the UniBomber... until I saw the skittles..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 1956
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 10:40:53 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

I just wonder WTF planet people are from, sometimes, other than Wonder Bread Planet.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/18/2013 10:46:47 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 1957
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 10:42:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol.. I take someone "Trayvoning" as seriously as I take someone "Tebowing"

This guy says it best....



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 1958
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 11:42:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.

i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here.


It was actually the Portuguese first, based on the business model they first established with slave-based sugarcane plantations in the Canary Islands, only a few years before discovery of the "New World." Quite propitious. Easy translation of that model to the Bahamas, Cuba, Brazil, etc., which laid the groundwork for all subsequent Atlantic slave trade.

quote:

But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power.


To answer to the quote you were responding to ("the importers and owners of black slaves"): the importers and the owners were different parties, from different continents.

The slave owners were the "one-percenters" of the day in the South. The merchants of the US Northeast and Europe bought every bit of that slave-made cotton they could get their hands on with out any hesitation. The latter made for a significantly greater number than a comparatively few wealthy plantation owners. No market for slave-made cotton => eventual end of market for slaves. No windfall profits to Europeans capturing and transporting and selling the slaves => end of market for slaves.

The Europeans banned slavery within their borders, but banning the profits from the trade was out of the question, at least at the time (just as it was out of the question to even consider banning import of slave-made cotton to the North in the US). When slavery was finally abolished in the US, that made abolition of the now dead-duck slave trade in Euro countries politically feasible.

The point being that there are many more descendants of those who profited from the slave trade and the economic benefit of the product derived thereby in power now, both in the US and in Europe, than there are descendants of former slave owners in such current position.





You and virtually every person in this sub conversation are ignoring one important fact.
The slave trade did not begin with the Dutch.
It did not begin with the Spanish.
It did not even begin with the Portuguese.
Something like 95% of all slaves were originally captured and put into slavery by other Africans getting rid of undesirables, criminals or enemies.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/18/2013 11:44:46 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 1959
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 1:19:52 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
They could capture all the Africans they wanted, for whatever political or personal reasons, but if there were not Europeans hiring them to do it, or at least waiting at the shoreline with ships and money, then it wouldn't have been a viable operation.

How many Africans did the Africans capture before 1500 as opposed to after 1500?




















< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/19/2013 1:25:14 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 1960
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