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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:50:12 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

This may be hard for you to process, seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath, but maybe, just maybe, he might have been in shock that he'd just shot and killed another human being? And maybe he wasn't just like "other people" who immediately leaped to aid. His reaction (or lack therof) was probably related to why he didn't pass the psych exam to be a cop. They do try to screen people who don't respond well under pressure and this looks to be the case here. Everyone reacts differently under stress.

I do think he is a manipulative psychopath cuz he lacks any feeling and emotion other than feeling sorry for himself.. but imo his reaction (pacing, etc) was more likely related to figuring out how to bolster his story so he could stay outta jail.. taking time to come up with gangsta phrases Martin didnt say like "you gonna die tonight, motherfucker" and Zimmy repeating how he "feared for his life", blah, blah, blah.. as someone that took criminal classes, ya know, he would know he would be taken in for questioning and he wanted to walk out without being charged.. he didnt give a dam about the kid he just shot and was dying on the ground..

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Profile   Post #: 1921
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:04:42 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

This may be hard for you to process, seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath, but maybe, just maybe, he might have been in shock that he'd just shot and killed another human being? And maybe he wasn't just like "other people" who immediately leaped to aid. His reaction (or lack therof) was probably related to why he didn't pass the psych exam to be a cop. They do try to screen people who don't respond well under pressure and this looks to be the case here. Everyone reacts differently under stress.

I do think he is a manipulative psychopath cuz he lacks any feeling and emotion other than feeling sorry for himself.. but imo his reaction (pacing, etc) was more likely related to figuring out how to bolster his story so he could stay outta jail.. taking time to come up with gangsta phrases Martin didnt say like "you gonna die tonight, motherfucker" and Zimmy repeating how he "feared for his life", blah, blah, blah.. as someone that took criminal classes, ya know, he would know he would be taken in for questioning and he wanted to walk out without being charged.. he didnt give a dam about the kid he just shot and was dying on the ground..

But ultimately, neither of us will ever know what precisely happened that night, will we? There are only two people on this planet who can, and neither of them are talking. The truth always seems to lie somewhere in the middle of a story like this.

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The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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Profile   Post #: 1922
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:08:02 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun?

Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence.

One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right.

After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings.

...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind.

The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders.

It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun....

Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.


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Profile   Post #: 1923
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:18:14 AM   
MasterCaneman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.

i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here.

But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power. And many have a (D) after their names. I reiterate my statement that the ones in power use incidents like this to keep the populace off-kilter so they can manipulate their reactions, which in this case appears to be a ploy to garner more votes for their party. They'll rail on about how SYG (which has been repeatedly determined not to be the case here) is inherently racist and reason to gut civil liberties in the name of 'safety'.

Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder. There are monsters walking our streets, of all colors, and they're probably looking forward to the day when they can practice their trade with impunity.

Conversely, the removal of a person's right to self-defense would justify creating an ever-larger number of police personnel, which begs the question: is this movement intended to be a stepping-stone to a de facto police state?

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 1924
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:25:36 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Whereas I would say (again) don't ascribe every decision to racism. Especially absent evidence.

The Zimmerman case has not led to any significant calls for gun control - imo mostly because we've already had efforts at gun control fail after a much more significant push due to New town. Most of the calls for reform around this case involved SYG or racism. And since there are is no serious momentum to change the florida SYG at the moment, there has been no reason for the NRA to inject itself into the debate.

It would be ineffective, and a waste of member's resources.




quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

FR ~

Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun?

Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence.

One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right.

After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings.

...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind.

The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders.

It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun....

Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.



(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 1925
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 8:39:19 AM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

FR ~

Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun?

Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence.

One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right.

After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings.

...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind.

The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders.

It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun....

Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.


I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler



(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 1926
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 10:09:05 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

FR ~

Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun?

Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence.

One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right.

After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings.

...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind.

The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders.

It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun....

Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.


I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.


Precisely. It's silly to criticize the NRA for not arguing for illegal gun ownership.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1927
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 2:37:34 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place?

My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves.

i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here.

But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power. And many have a (D) after their names. I reiterate my statement that the ones in power use incidents like this to keep the populace off-kilter so they can manipulate their reactions, which in this case appears to be a ploy to garner more votes for their party. They'll rail on about how SYG (which has been repeatedly determined not to be the case here) is inherently racist and reason to gut civil liberties in the name of 'safety'.

Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder. There are monsters walking our streets, of all colors, and they're probably looking forward to the day when they can practice their trade with impunity.

Conversely, the removal of a person's right to self-defense would justify creating an ever-larger number of police personnel, which begs the question: is this movement intended to be a stepping-stone to a de facto police state?

In some fairness to the Dutch, the Spanish started the slave trade, called it the Asiento. The English and the Dutch, IIRC, won it or took it (I think it was given in treaty but I don't wanna make any claims I'm not sure of and I'm too lazy to google right now.Time is tight) from the Spanish after the armada.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Sometimes I am still amazed that 1964 was only 49 years ago.

True. In our eagerness to consign racism to the distant past, we often forget that there are folks alive today who went to segregated schools and could not vote in some places.

Yeah, my Step-Dad grew up in panhandle Florida in the thirties, back in the separate but equal days. He tells some spooky stories.
We may have a long way to go, but Lawdie, we've come a damn long way.

_____________________________

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HST

(in reply to MasterCaneman)
Profile   Post #: 1928
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 4:45:29 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder.



This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive.

Tony Martin, a farmer who killed an intruder is a well known case. Martins problem is he shot the intruder in the back as the burglar was trying to flee. IE, it was claimed that when Martin fired the shot he (Martin) wasnt in danger.

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Profile   Post #: 1929
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 4:50:15 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:


I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.


I guess one of the implicit assumptions of that age-restriction is that adults have an instinct to protect those who are too young to carry firearms. I'm not sure this was much in evidence in Zimmerman's actions towards Martin that night, however.

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Profile   Post #: 1930
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 4:58:56 PM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

another procedure(back) scheduled for friday .

All the best, Mike! May your recovery be swift and sure and steady.

Thank You,it's a simple procedure...but it's also my spine.
So there's nothing "simple" about it,I enjoy walking without aid

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 1931
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:00:14 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Best wishes Mike my friend...... I hope all goes as smoothly as it can for you.

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Profile   Post #: 1932
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:02:34 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Thank You,it's a simple procedure...but it's also my spine.
So there's nothing "simple" about it,I enjoy walking without aid

I can relate.

I needed a cane for several months earlier this year, thanks to spinal stenosis in my neck. I was very glad to shed it.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 1933
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:11:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive.


You mean killing is not excessive enough? What would be excessive... maybe after killing them tying them up and spanking their dead butts?

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/18/2013 5:12:32 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 1934
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:16:38 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive.


You mean killing is not excessive enough? What would be excessive... maybe after killing them tying them up and spanking their dead butts?



FFS Butch put down the Southern Comfort and read my post again.


Excessive force is the issue..... death is possibly the consequence BUT the law here revolves around the force used. IE, was it reasonable.

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Profile   Post #: 1935
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:38:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thanks all...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 1936
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 5:58:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
Just for balance:

Race plays complex role in Florida's 'stand your ground' law

The Times analysis found no obvious bias in how black defendants have been treated:

• Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks.
• Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks.
• In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free.
• Overall, black defendants went free 66 percent of the time in fatal cases compared to 61 percent for white defendants...

The Times analysis does not prove that race caused the disparity between cases with black and white victims. Other factors may be at play.

The analysis, for example, found that black victims were more likely to be carrying a weapon when they were killed. They also were more likely than whites to be committing a crime, such as burglary, at the time.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 1937
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:00:10 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thanks all...


Too late for me to say 'Good luck!', Mike? Well, I'm damned well going to say it anyway. Good luck!

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 1938
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:02:08 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Mike add my wishes for good luck... I do not know the procedure you are getting but if all fails and you need the fusion surgery I am here to tell you it can work just fine.. I've had L3 thru 5 fused a few years ago and I walk 70 miles a week no problem today.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 1939
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/18/2013 6:10:19 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thanks all...


Too late for me to say 'Good luck!', Mike? Well, I'm damned well going to say it anyway. Good luck!

Me too Mike, was gonna write an email earlier, but my keyboard took a conniption, and well its been a weird day
Lots love hon, Ill talk to you soon(phone)

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 1940
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