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This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 12:14:23 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
"So enough about me and my kinks. What do YOU think about me and my kinks."

It does not matter who initiated contact (first email or first date). There is some perception that the dominant woman (regardless if there is a power exchange in place. Hint: There ISN'T yet!) must control the conversation. NOT TRUE!

There is some perception that it is "rude" or "prying" or "inappropriate" for a submissive male to ask questions. NOT TRUE!"

There is some perception that a male submissive must not speak or ask questions unless spoken to. WTF! This is not your fantasy, no one owns you yet.

Submissives can be so eloquent and absolutely blossom when asked about their interests and hobbies, and about their background, and I have found in recent years they have improved, as a group, at not thinking with their dick or bringing up fetishes or being pushy or inappropriate. The problem is, they don't ask ANYTHING. It's still so, so, SO one-sided. This has been a problem for years and it's STILL a problem. I state in my profile that I see the early process as a 50/50 process where people communicate as equals and that means both people ask questions.

If by the third or fourth exchange a man has not asked me anything about my hobbies, or how was my day, or where have I traveled, or anything, he's useless. He's either socially challenged to the point of no return, or he absolutely sees me as a fetish fantasy and just does not CARE because all he sees is a caricature and the person behind that is not even RELEVANT. After some prodding when I have let this go sometime and found out SO much about a man and his life, history, family, etc. and he knows virtually NOTHING I have asked him how he thinks we're connecting and I swear he thinks we're like -- a match made in HEAVEN and he knows NOTHING about me - literally nothing.

Sub men love to be the center of attention, they love to be pursued. It's the dream for them. Because there's no pressure. This is a horrible situation for a femdom and you must realize this because if you point this out, it's too late to salvage it. By then, you can't undo it! Because if he says (and they always do) "Oh I didn't know I was ALLOWED" to ask questions (wtf?) or says, "I didn't want to be rude" (you couldn't think of a safe question - or, even just say, "I would really love to ask about you, is that appropriate?" - how can you go wrong?) -- you just don't know if he's asking because he feels like he has to, like he's been caught.

For a lot of subs, maybe this is the reason your conversations are dying out. Are you asking the same number of questions that you are being asked? Is a real conversation happening, or is just her asking you questions and you answering? Keep an eye on the tempo and make sure it is even. Learn about her as a whole person!

This past weekend I was conversing with a few potential partners and a few of them had great potential but they just would not ask me one single question despite me asking them dozens over the course of about 5-6 exchanges. Literally pages and pages of emails of me asking and asking and them responding and not asking me one thing, just them having the time of their life. And they did not find that to be awkward at all.

The one that actually engage in conversation with me I'm still talking to, and even though he's in a different country, there could be a meeting in our future!

Akasha


< Message edited by AAkasha -- 7/26/2013 12:15:06 AM >

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]
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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 1:46:50 AM   
Kaninchen


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/18/2013
Status: offline 		I have to day, that this can be a horrible habit of mine. Not necessarily zero returned questions, but I will often get shy and ask far fewer, finding it easier to just spill honesty in response to questions than actually have to try and formulate a question of my own through the shy-fog.

However, when initiating a conversation (Which is not very often) I will always ask a few questions because if I am initiating a conversation then I am interested to know the person. In the times I am confident and talking I feel that I do ask almost as many as I am asked. However, as a new submissive, there is sometimes this air of doubt, the un-knowing if there's some sort of unwritten protocol you should be referring to when talking to a dominant through a site like this, and that may be what's getting some people.

My thoughts at least.

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 1:54:53 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Excellent post AAkasha and all very true. Lets hope that lots of male submissives read your post and get what you're saying.

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 1:55:54 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Dunno you are pretty much all over the place with your rant. Anytime sweeping generalizations about made of any group of ppl there are wrong.

"Sub men love to be the center of attention, they love to be pursued. It's the dream for them."

Your writing style in this post for me was difficult to follow. Suffice to say when i see a rant such as yours maligning ppl whether it's men. subs, dommes you get the idea I always think to myself, it's not the group of ppl that are wrong. It's the person doing the complaining.

BadOne

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 2:58:07 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.




_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 3:03:45 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		The number one problem for sub males is the lack of compatible partners. Following from that is a lack of experience and confidence.

It never hurts to advise men to listen and ask questions.

The behavior of horny men on the Internet is generally given a low grade.

The first thing most sub guys have have to cope with is disappointment, followed by frustration. Emails don't get answered and the lifestyle dominants already have partners (as a rule.)

On the forums, the women advising sub men tend to be partnered already, which results in a lack of empathy in their posting. There is also forum burnout for posts by sub men asking how to meet someone? If the sub has any kind of off color kinky orientation, the forums tend to teach him he's really on his own. The central problem again being the lack of compatible partners.

As trite as it sounds, I think the key is maintaining a positive attitude while operating under trying circumstances. On the way be grateful for smaller experiences.Don't internalize the numbers game working against you. Don't rant at women or the world about the tough dating market. Ranting won't help you find a partner and can make a bad impression.

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 5:03:29 AM   
jola37


Posts: 433
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline 		Valid points made here by all the contributors and an interesting thread in general.

For any bloke obviously thinking of a woman as an object of any sort (i.e. just a kink giver) then he has much to discover on his own. If I was though of as just a cash provider or something, I'd soon rid myself of that partner. It's no different, it's just someone assuming you'll fulfill a task for them without any real reward.

Defo don't crave to be the center of attention btw as a sub, I just don't. It's nice to have a bit of attention spent on you but only seldomly but not a daily or weekly thing. But if your partner finds it a struggle to give you any attention on any level (i'm talking about if they can't even manage once every 3 months), then get rid of them quickly, be they a domme, sub, switch or whatever. They are wasting you precious time.

Mainly though, as a bloke, I cringe at the way many other blokes carry on with they way they talk to women and can fully understand why this post was created. I have a sister and 4 nieces and the thought of anyone talking to them like that make me feel quite angry.


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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 5:05:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 5:33:03 AM   
orgasmdenial12


Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline 		I personally don't like the Q&A format, I find it artificial and it makes me feel like I'm obliged to provide information that I may not wish to discuss at that time. If Doms contact me with a load of questions, they receive one word, or very short answers.

My preferred conversational format is a free exchange of ideas and information. I enjoy it when people respond to the information volunteered in my profile and journal. if I find their comments interesting and worth pursuing, I will respond to them, and if there is real chemistry and compatability between us, the conversation will flow along. All relevant information will arise in this way. There may be occasional questions but they will occur naturally, as a result of curiosity and not as part of a checklist of information in some business style format.

Perhaps the reason they don't know anything about you, is because you haven't told them anything about yourself.

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 6:48:55 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.



You want a sweeping generalization? I never seem to draw the same type of person when they are vanilla. Because vanilla men aren't like that. Bam.

The harder question to look at is this. Are submissive men often socially unsophisticated because they are submissive, or did they become socially unsophisticated after being submissive for some period of time?

And I always must add, for clarification, I am talking about "the other side of CM,"; the men on this side, the ones that interact on the forums, have a much better sense of how the real world works. It just seems that the men who visit personals sites, and my previous experiences with munches and play parties when I went to them.

Mostly, this was a nudge to any lurking subs to please, ask questions. It's ok, the worst that could happen is a woman would indicate to you that asking questions was not appropriate. Then - seriously - do you want to continue to know that woman?

Akasha

_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 8:24:08 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.



You want a sweeping generalization? I never seem to draw the same type of person when they are vanilla. Because vanilla men aren't like that. Bam.

The harder question to look at is this. Are submissive men often socially unsophisticated because they are submissive, or did they become socially unsophisticated after being submissive for some period of time?


I can't speak for all sub men, but I would confess that I'm probably not seen as a great conversationalist, except by a few select people, with whom I have common interests and developed a comfort level where I can be myself. I'll admit that I'm somewhat of an introvert, although I don't know if that translates into "socially unsophisticated." However, at work or other non-social situations, I'm probably no more or less sophisticated than any of my peers. Social situations tend to be different, though.

To answer your question, I've had submissive tendencies for as long as I can remember, at least going back to kindergarten or first grade, before my social skills had really developed. I can see that it's possible that my early submissiveness could have been a stumbling block in developing my social skills later in life, and this may be perceived as "socially awkward" or "unsophisticated" from a certain point of view. I'm not sure if one has anything to do with the other, but it's a possibility.

Of course, that side of me is not something I generally share with others. I think we learn to play it close to the vest and try to keep that side somewhat submerged, as there's a certain "stigma" about it that puts some people off. So, that might even make it more awkward and uncomfortable.

quote:


And I always must add, for clarification, I am talking about "the other side of CM,"; the men on this side, the ones that interact on the forums, have a much better sense of how the real world works. It just seems that the men who visit personals sites, and my previous experiences with munches and play parties when I went to them.

Mostly, this was a nudge to any lurking subs to please, ask questions. It's ok, the worst that could happen is a woman would indicate to you that asking questions was not appropriate. Then - seriously - do you want to continue to know that woman?

Akasha


I don't know that I've ever had any difficulty asking questions, although it would largely depend on the general tone and direction a given conversation takes. Sometimes, if someone is telling me about herself, her description may be so thorough and complete, anticipating any possible question I might have, that I may not be able to think of any questions. I also try to be somewhat receptive and allow the other person to volunteer as much information as they wish before I start asking questions.

But there may be times when I'm genuinely not interested in a topic of conversation. If someone's hobby was ice skating, I probably wouldn't ask many questions, because I don't really know much about ice skating and am not really interested in that. But if their hobby was studying World War II, then that would be different. I'd be asking questions and enjoying a thoughtful and stimulating repartee.



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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 10:05:51 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
And I always must add, for clarification, I am talking about "the other side of CM,"; the men on this side, the ones that interact on the forums, have a much better sense of how the real world works. It just seems that the men who visit personals sites, and my previous experiences with munches and play parties when I went to them.

Mostly, this was a nudge to any lurking subs to please, ask questions. It's ok, the worst that could happen is a woman would indicate to you that asking questions was not appropriate. Then - seriously - do you want to continue to know that woman?

Akasha

Threads that are, for the majority, directed towards those on the "other side" aren't really hitting their target audience here. It's the same for folks who write up rants about rude emails or venting frustration about how everybody is fake. Any subject that is mostly meant in reference to those on the personals side, typically isn't as valid of an issue for those who frequent the forums. It's something like trying to put a PSA out on radio for those who primarily watch tv.

Granted, when it comes to submissive males, the personals side has a terrible signal to noise ratio. That's because you have an enormous amount of guys who stumble on websites like this due to sexually and/or porn driven fantasy. Cut to the chase, lots of guys thinking this joint is about getting a quick easy lay. One that they pretty much expect to fall into their lap at that.

Forum participants, for the most part, tend to be better communicators. It's a written medium, so those who are better than average in that area are more likely to join in on a variety of topics and conversations flow. It's a strength that is consistent whether public discussion or private exchanges. Same thing for munches and parties because those who are more social types, or even those who realize the importance of getting out to events to make connections who may be having to deal with issues such as being shy do better in two way communication. Sure, you still get a small percentage of wall-flowers and lurkers but the majority of males in the kink community learn quickly that they have to be an active participant in the social aspect to achieve what brought them out to events in the first place. Two or three munches or play parties is a fast lesson that being passive isn't how to gain the attention of the female tops, so they see that an active role is more likely to bring results.

This isn't to say that the original is a bad piece but I would think it would be finding it's target audience in a different format. Maybe better suited for an area where most of the males are more readers than participators. It's good advice for those who aren't strong in interacting with others or are more the type who aren't already making the investment to put some effort into getting away from the computer to get their kink. More of a 'reading only' type forum.



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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 10:27:14 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.



You want a sweeping generalization? I never seem to draw the same type of person when they are vanilla. Because vanilla men aren't like that. Bam.

The harder question to look at is this. Are submissive men often socially unsophisticated because they are submissive, or did they become socially unsophisticated after being submissive for some period of time?




In my first post I offered this generalization from the OP post. "Sub men love to be the center of attention, they love to be pursued. It's the dream for them."

So in the spirit of making a point I am going to offer one of my own.

Based upon this thread all dommes do is rant and blame others for their personal issues. Furthermore they can't seem to be able to put 2 coherent sentences together.

Now I could go on ad nauseam about how lame dommes are but I won't bore you.

Hopefully some of you can see how ignorant this appears.

BadOne



_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 10:33:19 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.



You want a sweeping generalization? I never seem to draw the same type of person when they are vanilla. Because vanilla men aren't like that. Bam.

The harder question to look at is this. Are submissive men often socially unsophisticated because they are submissive, or did they become socially unsophisticated after being submissive for some period of time?




In my first post I offered this generalization from the OP post. "Sub men love to be the center of attention, they love to be pursued. It's the dream for them."

So in the spirit of making a point I am going to offer one of my own.

Based upon this thread all dommes do is rant and blame others for their personal issues. Furthermore they can't seem to be able to put 2 coherent sentences together.

Now I could go on ad nauseam about how lame dommes are but I won't bore you.

Hopefully some of you can see how ignorant this appears.

BadOne





In my 15+ years of writing femdom erotica on the web and professionally in my career, I've never been accused of being incoherent.

I will make another "sweeping generalization" though about how dominant men like to come into threads started by dominant women and stir up shit hoping to get a reaction. (yawn). How's that working out for you? Hope I have made your day by giving you attention, but this will be the last of it. If you would like someone else to help you with my posts because they are too complicated for you to understand, I'm sure someone can break it down for you. I will not be.

Akasha

_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 10:48:37 AM   
Rawni


Posts: 1175
Status: offline 		When you run a web site that caters to the kink and training of sluts and all their kinky interests... how can you expect them to be interested in who you are? You can't see the connection these men may be making to you on your web site, benefiting from their kinky interests and how it might be effecting other areas?

They have learned that at least some dominant women will take a real interest in their kink and there is no other expectation other than paying and you want a different type to take an interest in you? His interest ended when he may have seen what you were into and the others with the kinky site and you using a tool to give his tool what it wanted and you want him to talk too?

If you are part of the problem, how can you expect a solution?

< Message edited by Rawni -- 7/26/2013 11:49:43 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 11:11:46 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Here you go.

Subs don't ask questions when getting to know someone.






Was this supposed to be an example of a sweeping generalization, because if it is, it's a pretty good one. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you seem to always draw the same type of person instead of trying to paint them all the same.



You want a sweeping generalization? I never seem to draw the same type of person when they are vanilla. Because vanilla men aren't like that. Bam.

The harder question to look at is this. Are submissive men often socially unsophisticated because they are submissive, or did they become socially unsophisticated after being submissive for some period of time?




In my first post I offered this generalization from the OP post. "Sub men love to be the center of attention, they love to be pursued. It's the dream for them."

So in the spirit of making a point I am going to offer one of my own.

Based upon this thread all dommes do is rant and blame others for their personal issues. Furthermore they can't seem to be able to put 2 coherent sentences together.

Now I could go on ad nauseam about how lame dommes are but I won't bore you.

Hopefully some of you can see how ignorant this appears.

BadOne





In my 15+ years of writing femdom erotica on the web and professionally in my career, I've never been accused of being incoherent.

I will make another "sweeping generalization" though about how dominant men like to come into threads started by dominant women and stir up shit hoping to get a reaction. (yawn). How's that working out for you? Hope I have made your day by giving you attention, but this will be the last of it. If you would like someone else to help you with my posts because they are too complicated for you to understand, I'm sure someone can break it down for you. I will not be.

Akasha


You maybe can write erotica, dunno. FYI this is not erotica. What I do know is that you are doing a pretty poor job of expressing your thoughts here.

It really doesn't surprise me that you can't seem to find/keep a sub. Given your "glowing" attitude toward submissive men. Which is the topic that you are whining about.

It seem readily apparent that you missed the sarcasm in my post regarding generalizations. Somehow you managed to entirely miss my point. So you rock on with your bad self and continue to think that you are right and the entire sub world is wrong.

I'm out. BadOne




_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 11:53:13 AM   
theshytype


Posts: 1600
Status: offline 		I'm going to assume its not just sub men.  And it's not just subs.  And it's not simply because they only have a one-tracked mind.  They could have misconceptions, be shy, not great conversationalists, or not really interested in the person but are bored and online communication of any sorts passes the time. 

If, after several exchanges, a person is still not showing any interest in you, and it bothers you, move on.  Seems to me like it would be a good method to weed out undesirables.  
If they're shy, do you want to spend time coddling and coaxing them?
If they lack conversation skills, will that ever really change?
If they're just interested in a fetish delivery system, would giving them knowledge of how to properly communicate really ever change the fact that they simply don't care who you are as a person?

I suppose it would be nice to teach the ones that have misconceptions but, really, if they cared to learn wouldn't they have taken the initiative to do so already?  I have seen a few comments on these threads of similar complaints.  If they were at all interested in conversation, I would think they would have popped on over to this side at least once and learned a little.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 1:22:55 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		One way to look at it though, is that you already know guys like this are fantasists, who want a fetish delivery system. And that you should be grateful they show their inability to create and maintain a healthy relationship immediately so you don't need to waste more time on them.

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 1:42:43 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		As a submissive, even though i'm not a submissive male, it feels wrong to me to ask a bunch of questions. Perhaps you need to give them permission to ask questions. It works for me.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: This is most submissive men during courtship process - 7/26/2013 2:05:38 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

One way to look at it though, is that you already know guys like this are fantasists, who want a fetish delivery system. And that you should be grateful they show their inability to create and maintain a healthy relationship immediately so you don't need to waste more time on them.



I think this is true, and what theshytype said is true, too. But I also think it's important to just put it out there that sub men who may be lurking here need to know - it is OK TO ASK QUESTIONS! And femdoms should state this, too. Put it in your profiles. Say it up front. Whenever I tell subs after the exchanges fizzle that it was because they really didn't seem interested and never asked questions, they say it was because they did not think they were allowed to. So at least they know the next time and they are getting educated - so keep educating them.

Someone else in this thread indicated that if they don't have common interests it's hard to know what questions to ask. The point here is - well, if you don't have common interests and there's nothing to talk about, that's an indication that you aren't a good match. That's the point of courtship, to find these things out. Too many kinky people try to push a round peg in a square hole and try to force compatibility for the sake of making a kinky relationship work at all costs because they are so rare. If you have nothing in common and nothing to talk about, it won't work in the long run.

Akasha

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(in reply to DesFIP)
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