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RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 5:47:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The combat radius of an F-16 is 340 miles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16

Also your cite is for the ferry range of an F-16A which haven't flown in at least a decade and is a simple assertion, the chart the poster included is for an F-14.

And combat radius has nothing to do with the question at hand. Combat radius presumes an outbound leg, time on station, and a return leg. The only thing that matters in this case is combat range. Regarding cite -
Read to the end of the article instead of looking at the pretty pictures.

You think a combat strike would involve no loiter? Are you truly that uninformed. Flying a fighter jet to a small engagement across a large body of water is not as simple as driving to the 7-11. The fighters would come in at altitude (the higher they fly the less fuel they use and the safer it is) once they locate the city, even a very small navigation error can lead to being off target by miles, they then have to circle while getting some information from the ground about the targets general location, whether it will be laser painted, direction and distance of friendlies etc.. Then they have to maneuver for their attack run, make the run. loiter again while waiting for confirmation of whether they hit the target and whether another strike is necessary.

That is why combat radius is always relevant when fighters are attacking a target. No F-16 could have hit a target in Benghazi without tanker support which would have taken several hours to get in position.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 5:56:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh - and for the record. Around 1986 the US bombed Libya after the berlin incident. The f-111's took off from ENGLAND and bombed benghazi.
The plane which replaced the F-111 (the F-15E) has *greater* range.

The idea that we ha no assets in range - idiotic.

Those F-111's had a huge range. Much longer range than an F-15.

Since you're so obsessed with ferry range F-111 4200 miles, F-15 3450 miles

And the fact is those F-111's still had to refuel over the Med before their strike.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 6:48:24 AM

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My money is on that F16s have NEVER done a strafing run in support of special forces.

To compare the preplanned Libya strike under reagan where assers were put in place LONG before and a thrown,together desperate strike is BS.

Who was going to provide ground control, some foriegn service guy talking by phone to a ground controller in England?

So, you want to believe they A. knew the,attack would last hours, B. want to claime we knew Libya was unsafe, But C. want to have US pilots land state of the art F16 at Bhengazi and sit around all defenseless?

As for 4 deaths, how many died under Bush and Reagan?

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 7:48:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My money is on that F16s have NEVER done a strafing run in support of special forces.

To compare the preplanned Libya strike under reagan where assers were put in place LONG before and a thrown,together desperate strike is BS.

Who was going to provide ground control, some foriegn service guy talking by phone to a ground controller in England?

So, you want to believe they A. knew the,attack would last hours, B. want to claime we knew Libya was unsafe, But C. want to have US pilots land state of the art F16 at Bhengazi and sit around all defenseless?

As for 4 deaths, how many died under Bush and Reagan?

There we go. Typical liberal response. Blame Bush. News flash. That number is irrelevant.
IF the Obama administration wanted to admit they made a mistake because they didn't think the attack would last for hours - thats fine. That, while idiotic, is a mistake - but it might be honest.

To make the ridiculous claim that there were no assets in range is an insult to your intelligence. And the Obama administration is doing it just to avoid saying "hey, we made a series of mistakes."

As for being pre-warned - we were. Sean Smith played eve - and he made several comments that said:
a). The militia that was protecting them received threats to them and to their families not to show up because there was going to be an attack. They passed those allegations on to the team.
b). A militia member was caught taking pictures of the layout of the compound. The team knew this was for an attack.
c). There had been more than 5 attacks on western institutions- such as the red cross - such that the US compound was the last remaining western institution. There had also been numerous tests of the compounds security.

But, forget the facts. You're in a country with hostile militias. Its the anniversary of 911. And you think we should have more marines guarding the french embassy than the benghazi compound? Really?

The lack of security before the mission is an incompetent scandal.
Letting people die for political reasons is a horrendous scandal.
Covering it up by telling a lie that it was a mob - is a scandal.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 8:00:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh - and for the record. Around 1986 the US bombed Libya after the berlin incident. The f-111's took off from ENGLAND and bombed benghazi.
The plane which replaced the F-111 (the F-15E) has *greater* range.

The idea that we ha no assets in range - idiotic.

Those F-111's had a huge range. Much longer range than an F-15.

Since you're so obsessed with ferry range F-111 4200 miles, F-15 3450 miles

And the fact is those F-111's still had to refuel over the Med before their strike.

Coming from England, which is what 6 times as far away? DUH.
But the point remains that f-15's could have hit benghazi from Avianno landing in sigonella or benghazi. Which you are more or less conceding.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 8:38:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The last Benghazi item in the NYT online dated back to May.

File under, "my bad." I read the story off a feed, not the paper's website - The Washington Times did the FOIA request, not the NYT.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/25/crisis-in-kabul-security-at-us-embassy-in-disarray/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

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(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 9:49:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As for 4 deaths, how many died under Bush and Reagan?

Not nearly as many as under LBJ...

Why are you so afraid to have this President looked at on his own "merits?"

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 10:55:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Oh - and for the record. Around 1986 the US bombed Libya after the berlin incident. The f-111's took off from ENGLAND and bombed benghazi.
The plane which replaced the F-111 (the F-15E) has *greater* range.

The idea that we ha no assets in range - idiotic.

Those F-111's had a huge range. Much longer range than an F-15.

Since you're so obsessed with ferry range F-111 4200 miles, F-15 3450 miles

And the fact is those F-111's still had to refuel over the Med before their strike.

Coming from England, which is what 6 times as far away? DUH.
But the point remains that f-15's could have hit benghazi from Avianno landing in sigonella or benghazi. Which you are more or less conceding.

From Aviano they would still need mid air refueling. And that is assuming there are F-15's at Aviano which there doesn't appear to be.

Aviano is the base for the 31st fighter wing which is 2 F-16 squadrons plus supporting units.
http://www.aviano.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4350

(in reply to Phydeaux)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 1:18:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As for 4 deaths, how many died under Bush and Reagan?

Not nearly as many as under LBJ...

Why are you so afraid to have this President looked at on his own "merits?"

Please define merit in terms relating to this terrible blunder, then state which presidents met or failed to have merit.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 2:19:49 PM

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Please tell me what merit you find in the (continued) imprisonment of a movie producer, in response to an attack on our overseas facilties.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 3:21:51 PM

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Only if you tell me what my girlfriend ate last night.

I am no fan of obama but I have the typical liberal preference for reality. People want to make a big deal out of Behngazi they are going to have to explain why. So far, some think f16 can fly without fuel, magically carry weapons that won't fit if they are carrying drop tanks, where they are going to find GBUs on interceptor bases, explain away the planning and loading times, forget about loading times, ignore the fact that f16s are useless against ground targets in the open desert, let alone in a built up city. Explain who the fuck is going to play ground controller, then WHILE COMPLAINING EVERYONE KNEW HOW UNSAFE BEHNGAZI WAS HAVE THE FUCKING PLANES LAND AT THE LOCAL AIRPORT.

I could go on but nobody has answered any of those.

So yeah, I get pissy when I look back on threads from 2007 where these same people bitching about obama unable to rescue people in a shithole on the spur of the moment cheer on bush who can't plan a decent fucking occupation.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:01:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Only if you tell me what my girlfriend ate last night.

My wife's ass. Good times for all.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:12:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The unsupported combat radius of an F-16 is 340 miles. The straight line distance between Sigonella and Benghazi is 470 miles.

Combat range (air-to-ground with 2 Mk.84 class bombs) 1,370 km (740 nm) ~Source

The F-16 can fly more than 500 miles (860 kilometers), deliver its weapons with superior accuracy, defend itself against enemy aircraft, and return to its starting point. ~Source

Note "more than" (unspecified) at second source. Capabilities vary with different versions.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/28/2013 4:23:40 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:16:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Only if you tell me what my girlfriend ate last night.

So yeah, I get pissy when I look back on threads from 2007 where these same people bitching about obama unable to rescue people in a shithole on the spur of the moment cheer on bush who can't plan a decent fucking occupation.

Which same people are those? Most of the participants on the ancient thread that was necroed are long gone. Personally, I weighed in on it with one post, supporting the notion that Saddam might have been led to believe we wouldn't give a shit if he invaded Kuwait.

I'm remembering quickly why I don't bother trying to converse with you, SimplyMichael. Same old crap.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:27:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The unsupported combat radius of an F-16 is 340 miles. The straight line distance between Sigonella and Benghazi is 470 miles.

Combat range (air-to-ground with 2 Mk.84 class bombs) 1,370 km (740 nm)

Source

K.

Does the base HAVE any Mk 84s? And I am not sure that is radius, look down two configurations, the 2 hour flight time, plus 10 minutes loiter, gives a 200 mile radius and that is a fairly clean confuguration. Who is going to do the laser designating for the bombs to work?

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:31:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I am not sure that is radius...

It is the combat radius for the F-16C. See here.

Capabilities vary with different models.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/28/2013 4:50:29 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:31:33 PM

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It's pretty funny, Kirata, when people pretend they don't know what a radius is, but just stupid when they assume nobody else will.

Hypothetically, air support could have reached the target, provided a show of force, along with a big boom or three, and then gone in whatever direction required, to meet up with a tanker.

Again, if that capability did not exist in the Med, or in range of it, then we have another set of questions regarding strategic resources

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:35:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

As for 4 deaths, how many died under Bush and Reagan?

Not nearly as many as under LBJ...

Why are you so afraid to have this President looked at on his own "merits?"

Why are the people that cheered our going into Iraq now aghast at the death of 4 Americans.
They were quite happy to lose thousands as long as we got mean old Saddam(who was no threat to this Republic)

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(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:41:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The unsupported combat radius of an F-16 is 340 miles. The straight line distance between Sigonella and Benghazi is 470 miles.

Combat range (air-to-ground with 2 Mk.84 class bombs) 1,370 km (740 nm)

Source

I am not sure that is radius, look down two configurations, the 2 hour flight time, plus 10 minutes loiter, gives a 200 mile radius

See second link (added after your reply).

Capabilities vary depending on model. No single statement of range or radius can be applied to all F-16s.

K.

Air force is only flying block 50s, so you can quote your source.

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: Benghazi - 7/28/2013 4:57:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Air force is only flying block 50s, so you can quote your source.

Sorry, I was editing my post as you were replying. I checked on your question, and the figures are indeed the combat radius for the F-16C. I don't understand your comment about linking my sources.

K.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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