njlauren
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ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
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ORIGINAL: WebWanderer
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ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
No, no, I was meaning seeing the straight guys in there with their wives or girlfriends. Lol
The same logic applies. Do women freak out or squirm in car dealerships, hunting gear stores or other male-dominated places?
Actually many women have difficulties dealing with mechanics. And car salesmen. Mechanics are well known to lie to women about what's needed and car salesmen frequently tell us to come back with our husband/father. So yes, it's stressful as hell.
The stepdaughter took her car in to get a flat fixed and was told it was unsafe to drive and required $800 in repairs immediately. She drove down here where her father checked out the brakes and there was nothing wrong at all.
A friend of my daughter was told she needed a flux capacitator, the item that allowed the DeLorean in Back to the Future to fly. Luckily she recognized the reference and didn't hand over a thousand plus for nothing.
As a former used-car salesman, I'm hurt. And a little angry, too. It is true in the industry that there are salesman and mechanics who do what you say, but no more than any other business dealing with a complex product. I've had customers come in with vehicles that were unsafe for the road, but because of what their "daddy", "uncle", or "boyfriend" says, we're trying to cheat them when the mechanic says their car needs something.
Maybe twenty-thirty years ago you could get away with an under hundred dollar fix, but with all the new safety and emissions standards we HAVE to follow, what used to be accomplished with fifty bucks in parts in your driveway has become a five hundred dollar fix using a six thousand dollar scan tool. And trying to explain to someone who hasn't taken four years in college to learn how to fix cars (yes, both the wrenches in my old shop have the equivalent of Bachelor's degrees) for the tenth time gets old. That's why they'll ask for a male family member or friend, in the hopes that they might be able to understand what they're talking about.
Re: the step-daughter incident. Did she drive the car in on a flat, or was it changed? How long did she drive on the flat? Was she able to get off the road and stopped in a timely manner? How did the tire go flat? Slow leak, puncture, slash, or did she hit a curb? Steel wheels or mags? Was it a drive wheel or trail wheel? Believe it or not, all of those questions have to be answered to determine what kind of repairs might be needed to that particular wheel unit. Modern cars have umpteen safety and design features that make them highly fault-tolerant, but ultimately they're put to the test by the weakest part of the car-the nut behind the wheel.
Are there scammers out there? Sure there are, I used to play chicken with them when one of our customers took their car in to them and they called out a bullshit repair (e.g. 'flux capacitor'). Or when you have that damn 'check engine light' that keeps coming on and you get pissed that the mechanics can't find out why, not knowing that there are literally hundred of different conditions that can cause it to go on. And then we find out the reason why is they gas up with the engine running or they're using a locking gas cap that doesn't let the tank pressurize to flip the evap monitors.
I worked for that place for six years (and technically still do-I'm on disability furlough now), and we'd get people in who don't even know how to check their oil or air pressure, or even the basics of how a car engine works, yet all of a sudden they know we're "cheating" them when we call out a repair that costs a couple hundred or thousand dollars. You want a simple example? Brakes. Right off the top of my head, the average cost of a pair of pads is around forty bucks (wholesale). Add in rotors, because usually when the pads are gone, people drive them until they've chewed those up too. Another forty-fifty bucks. Once the wheel is off and the wrench can take a look at the hub, you might need a hose kit, another forty-fifty bucks, depending on make and model.
And, depending on the state/province you're in, if that mechanic sees something that falls outside safety specs, he HAS to tell the customer about it and the need to fix it. You have a bad hub and bearing on a front-driver, it can actually make the car uncontrollable in certain conditions. Has to be replaced. That's another fifty to two hundred, and we can't use one off a wreck, either. Oh, and for the above numbers, multiply by two. In NYS, we can't fix just one brake assembly. Unsafe. A bad wheel assembly (hub, bearing, pintle, and ass't hardware) on one side means the other one is probably going to go next, and it's actually cheaper in the long run to do both. That's how a 'fifty dollar brake job' becomes a five to eight hundred dollar repair.
ETA: Oh, and don't forget the fact that we have to apply at least a 20% markup on the parts so we can get paid and keep the lights and phone on. And labor. Most labor runs (depending on type, make, and model) anywhere from 85 to 140 dollars per hour. And is the mechanic working flat rate or by the job? That can add or subtract from the bills as well. And then we have to figure in taxes, disposal fees, other little odds and ends that end up in the costs of doing business. There are some makes that require us to take them to a franchised dealer to finish a repair and reset things in their systems. Fuel, oil, fluids, etc. are another thing that adds up. Drop your car off with an empty tank? We have to fill it up for a road test-at five bucks a gallon no matter what the spot price is, because either me, the lot man, or the mechanic has to take time out to do that.
That was just ONE type of car repair, albeit the most common one. And it pisses people off that it's never covered under warranty (on a used car anyway), so all of a sudden we're the bad guys because the driver didn't take proper care of their expensive item. And they lie...oh, how they lie...when you ask them how they drive their cars (we need to know this). "Did you hit something?" isn't a dig at women and how they drive, it's needed to determine how to write up the order so the mechanic knows what to look for. When I go out and ask this, and can see the dented wheel and cracked or missing cover, and they say "No, it just started up all by itself," I get more than little pissed.
In short, yes, there are scammers in the biz. Same as any other industry. But don't lump us all in with them. You want to save some money and not get burned? Learn about your car, after your house it's the biggest expense most people have. There are classes through AAA, community schools. I'd like to say online, but most of the shit you see there is just that. It's like this place, only with cars instead of whips & chains. You want a cheap and easy start? Read the owner's manual. It's in there for a reason, and a lot of grief on both sides of the counter can be avoided by doing that. If it doesn't answer the question, get a repair manual. At the very last, go online to the manufacturer's websites or reputable sites like Haynes or AllData.
Okay, I'm done hyperventilating. Weren't we talking about men buying lingerie or something like that?
Unfortunately there are a lot of scam artists out there. Yeah, modern cars are a weird bitch, in so many ways they are a lot more reliable then older generations of cars were, I run cars into the ground usually and it is unreal what doesn't go wrong.....I haven't had an alternator go on a car in over 20 years, and I tend to drive cars 150,000 miles or more before they finally give it up. Spark plugs are 100,000 mile items, brakes last 50k or more, modern cars are amazing..but when stuff goes, it is expensive as hell. Check engine light often means it is the O2 sensor, that is a couple of hundred bucks..weird error causing check engine light can take several hours on a machine. Parts that used to be simple, that go now, are part of major assemblies. Engine control Unit goes, talking 900 bucks.....catalytic converter pipe rusts out, guess what, have to get a whole new assembly......
Repairs are expensive and it isn't surprising, and yeah, I have seen the customers you are talking about, and they are a pain in the ass. And yeah, dealers do try to pull things, like telling me to change the brake fluid and flush the system. Yes, brake fluid is hydrophilic and can rust out the system, but generally you do that when you do a brake job, and with modern brake lines they don't corrode as easily. Dealers also make money with dubious treatments, like a liquid fuel injector cleaner that according to a buddy of mine who is an automotive engineer, doesn't really do much more than using gumout regularly would do...it has always been stock and trade to try and sell things of dubious value,but they do..
On the other hand, quite honestly, a lot of places still try to take advantage of women, assuming they don't know about cars, and being a semi literate when it comes to cars, I know shit from shinola. If a mechanic tells someone they need to replace the CV boots on a car and need to replace the half shaft with the bearing on it, they probably aren't lying, by the time those go usually the grease has been gone a while, and if the car is older, easier to replace the shaft and bearing, it is prob shot. On the other hand, when I hear them selling on a car with 40,000 miles some sort of 'super tune up', my bullshit meter goes off (there is no such thing, and tuneups basically happen at 100k, and is primarily the plugs, which on my honda is a 250 buck job). I have heard mechanics telling a girl friend of mine that she needed a totally new set of ball joints and bushings on the front end of her car, to the tune of 1500 bucks, when all she needed was a new motor mount (I know, I checked). Another woman's check engine light was on, and the guy told her all this stuff she needed, including one of the control units on the transmission, when the culprit was a water temperature sensor (I know, because I sent her to another friend of mine, and I saw what the diagnostic machine showed), and put it this way, even though the machine codes can be a confusing mess, he was so totally full of shit my friend couldn't believe it, he was disgusted.
Likewise, car dealerships with women routinely quote higher prices than for a man, they will try and give them financing at a ridiculously high rate, assuming she won't know better, and they also tend to push a lot of aftermarket stuff, claiming crap like 'this is required by law' or 'this will save you big bucks with the insurance', the basic glass etching stuff that is not a lot at most dealerships, guy wanted to clip her X, or selling her something as 'aftermarket' that was part of the standard equipment! And yeah, I experienced it myself when I was pretty much living full time as a woman, at least I got a chuckle out of it letting the poor SOB drive himself into the ground with a bunch of bullshit, until he realized that I was basically laughing at him.
I will say that the scam crap has diminished a lot, and most shops really try and give you only what you need. I still wouldn't touch a sears automotive with a 10 foot pole, I ended up being pretty good evidence many years ago of what came out to be massive fraud (recommending parts you didn't need, the infamous 'lifetime warranty' struts that when they needed doing, suddenly required new springs, new tires, before they would honor it), and even with women they are a lot better. Some chains, like STS are decent IME, but best bet is talk to a friend and find someone you know is honorable. Angie's and similar sites aren't bad either....
I will add one thing, despite how expensive they are to buy, modern cars are amazingly reliable, the cost of maintenance is a lot less comparatively than the car you could repair with a screwdriver and a pair of pliars...
Okay, back to lingerie, where were we, ah yes, Victoria's secret:)
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