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RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:26:17 AM

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I think that someone mentioning how they would want people to respond doesn't make them rude or insulting. Someone posts, then they request exactly what they want. Of course, not everyones going to listen or respond in the way requested - posts evolve and move off topic all the time - but the OP can just run past those and concentrate on what was required.

That's my thought anyway.

As for real BDSM? Bondage/Discipline/Sadism/Masochism - yup and slip in the old D/s if you want. That's all it is. If the masturbation involves binding your own ankles together before you jack yourself off - to me, thats BDSM. Masturbation on its own is masturbation. If the sex includes getting off on the pain inflicted on the simple swipes of a cane - to me, thats BDSM. Sex on its own is just sex.

Wearing a choker doesn't make it BDSM, unless your wearing it to feel and experience the choke. Wearing a collar doesn't make it BDSM - just like wearing a ring doesn't make it marriage.

BDSM isn't a lifestyle or a community or anything else. Its an acronym. And if any of those words aren't in that acronym, it isnt BDSM.

Plain and simple.

Peace and Rapture

edit* - and for the record - I think zenos posts rock, )and I am so not a masochist, before I get that thrown at me.) He's obviously having an effect - Ya gotta love that power Zeno

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 6/29/2006 5:31:09 AM >

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.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:31:31 AM

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

<brat>Just your stereotypical control freak Dom-type trying to tell people what to do </brat> *runs away quick*

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I have no idea why you are being so crass, insulting and rude by attempting to tell people how to respond when in many cases their enecdotes are based on experience and situations they have encountered, which for most is a perfectlt excelent in which to gather information.

Love you too darlin bratsky....

Those knowing me would have of course understood that i will not allow another to dictate to me how to respond to any given circumstance be it a pot in a forum, an email or a face to face situation. In my culture and according to my beliefs that is certainly rude and most probably crass. If however the OP had couched his desires in such a way as to become a request, I would have seen that as perfectly reasonable and had some interest in joining in....(Exzmple: "I would prefer if all people respoding do not post their anecdotes but answer in (such and such) manner.) Probably sound pick to some but that is the way I was brough up nd trained as being a correct manner to elicit information unless it is part of an official busiess or Governmental survey which tends to not have the nicities of polite conversation.. So I guess I'm old fashion and shall remain so.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/29/2006 5:39:20 AM >

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(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:39:03 AM

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Joined: 9/26/2004
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To define "real" BDSM IMHO is like trying to define "real religion"---percpetion is reality and reality is an important concept.

Who cares if your practice follows the precepts set forth in the "Histoire of O" and Mine do not, but we both have happy fulfilled lives?

As for "experience" that too is a subjective concept--all based on the standards of another.

_____________________________

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(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:40:46 AM

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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Well that's the trick, isn't it? Giving someone the feeling of an experience being real without the inherent danger and emotional consequenses of REALLY being tied up and left in the woods, REALLY gang raped, REALLY given away or prostituted, REALLY being beaten, abused, humiliated, degraded etc.... But if you cross the line from pretend to real, you better be willing to pay the REAL consequenses, such as permanent injury, incarceration or even death.

Not my cup of tea. REAL life has plenty of REAL stress, fear, trauma, pain, frustration etc.... I don't need it to enjoy myself.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:50:43 AM

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Joined: 6/10/2006
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I think there's a gem in your post dark, namely the notion that the best defense to mainstream agression might be infinite division. saying that BDSM is just that, an acronym. It's not a structure of power threatening to take over, it's not a secret society nor a cult nor a commune, it's not in agreement and it's not organised. Moreover, it's a loose confederacy of "what, me ? what did i do ?".

from my meager understanding, the BDSM community (such as it is) is more or less trying to resist to said mainstream agression the same way the gays did, which is to say by becoming organised and fighting the battle. hence ideas like "what we need is a Stonewall".

however, it may be a matter of numbers. fact of the matter is, many people are not and will never be interested in BDSM. whether no matter how well organised the community will ever reach critical mass needed to enact social change is then dubious. this simple fact is attested by a very common experience here, many people complain about geographical isolation, to a degree the gay community never felt it.

then again, it may not be a matter of numbers, and maybe every citizen of planet earth would enjoy some sort of play in their bedroom. the way this question is eventually settled will certainly impact the outlook of sexual civilisation for a while.

another important difference is the obvious fragmentarity. being gay is relatively simple a matter to ascertain. being into BDSM might mean many things to many people, and there's no guarantee that any two practitioners have even vaguely covered the same ground (which makes competence such an issue)

now, it may be that politically, the best defense right now is inexistence. BDSM ? I just like ropes/leather/x/y/whatever. Not giving the mainstream a definite something to snicker at may well be all that's needed.

in which case, discussing real and pseudo BDSM is a great way to go about things.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:53:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
i will not allow another to dictate to me how to respond to any given circumstance be it a pot in a forum, an email or a face to face situation

oh would you just stuff it already. you've proven what a great&by the book dom you are, now go away. do you have a flogger surgically attached to your palm or something ?

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:56:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Wearing a collar doesn't make it BDSM - just like wearing a ring doesn't make it marriage.

Hey dark....I like that.

feastie...don't look now but I think you just became a notch....

now zen....placing your head at the base of a guillotine might be much less painful and far more effective......

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 5:57:36 AM

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Joined: 7/7/2005
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Except that it's really NOT the best way. Why should we be "nice" and not upset the mainstream? We are, who we are. I'm not going to hide that, just to avoid upsetting people.

And your whole question about "real" BDSM and pseudo-BDSM is just a useless mental exercise. Can you make those distinctions? Sure, YOU can. But that's an arbitrary distinction you are making. Others may have a different view on what is or isn't. In the end, BDSM is BDSM. Perhaps some don't fit into what YOU would call "real", but they are still members, even if temperoary, of our group.

Just my two cents.

< Message edited by Finagle -- 6/29/2006 5:59:03 AM >

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:00:32 AM

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From: UK
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There are people in BDSM who want to draw the wagons into the circle so that they can defend themselves better.

But if we can't agree and everyone is that 'personalised' - if we have difficulty organising that circle - then no amount of wagons - be it 50 or 500 - is going to be able to defend.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:02:25 AM

Posts: 58
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

IronBear.. I am in Total Accord with you. I won't add what I am Thinking in Regard

to this...

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:04:26 AM

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Finagle, some good points.

However, BDSM is a matter of sexuality. Sexuality is private. Being "nice" and not upsetting the mainstream also means, for instance, not having plain old vanilla sex on a table in starbucks. And you shouldn't to that because, well... I don't know why you shouldn't. Other than I would prefer you didn't.

Not wanting to be personal, but I'm sure there must be something you keep private? After all, honesty can't be demanding of us to build bathrooms with glass walls, can it ?

(in reply to Finagle)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:04:53 AM

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Joined: 6/2/2004
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quote:

In the end, BDSM is BDSM.

But - what IS BDSM? It isn't just 'BDSM' - it is something - so what is it? A hand is four digits and thumb with a palm and bones and muscles and god knows what else... its a hand... but it is still definable.

So tell us, please, what is BDSM?

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Finagle)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:07:14 AM

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Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
now zen....placing your head at the base of a guillotine might be much less painful and far more effective......

now that bit of advice, on CollarMe forums, is simply priceless. you figure i'm into avoiding protraction and pain ?

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:07:54 AM

Posts: 185
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Why don't we all just roll our eyes and walk away quietly. Maybe it will go away.

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RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:13:24 AM

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Joined: 12/31/2005
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not sure why this OP engendered such a bunch of hostility but anyway...

My take on it is that BDSM is whatever the two or three :) people involved define it to be.

However, bondage is only bondage when the victim can't get away.

Therefore there is no fake BDSM, but there IS fake bondage.

Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
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(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:18:19 AM

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Joined: 7/7/2005
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There are things I keep private, that's true. And you're correct, I'm not in a habit of having sex at Starbucks. :)

But what are you pushing for? No more leather parades because they offend mainstream people? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, I'm honestly unsure what it is you are saying on this point.

darkinshadows->
That's not the first time I've been called out for defining something by itself :) This is, of course, my view only. Agree, or not. BDSM, to me, is just a collection of things. Activities. Lifestyles. Mentalities. They all share certain traits, or ideas. Whipping. spanking. roleplaying. femdom. maledom. ponyboys. goreans.

I guess, in the end, I just want us to be one big happy family, really. ;)

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:21:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
The inability to clearly see this difference, often enough voluntary, due to the catfighting reflexively prompted by any suggestion that this or that is or is not "real BDSM", where "real" is of course seen as an ethical distinction, put the community in a very strange position, and in my oppinion generate most of the drama.

Well you talk a lot about there being a difference between "real" bdsm and "psuedo" bdsm- but you don't clearly define either term or what necessarily differentiates one from the other.

I get that you think there's a difference, but I have no idea what you consider that difference to be (other than one being "playing" and the other "real" which again really doesn't define anything).

_____________________________

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(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:22:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
now that bit of advice, on CollarMe forums, is simply priceless. you figure i'm into avoiding protraction and pain ?

Nope...I"m simply responding from the perspective of someone who has walked the road you're walking....

Most people here don't want anything to be well defined......
Most people here want all definitions to be solely in the mind of the definer...
Most people want BDSM to be defined as "whatever works for me"....

....and furthermore, most people here want their definitions to be recognized and respected by everyone else.

You can continue on your quest to find a definition that will be accepted....but I think that you will most likely get farther trying to fit a round peg in a square hole...

This emoticon is available under "more smileys"....you will be needing it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:30:29 AM

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Finagle
But what are you pushing for? No more leather parades because they offend mainstream people? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, I'm honestly unsure what it is you are saying on this point.

No, actually, what I'm pushing against is trying to get everything under one single political umbrella. Parades all over bearing the same symbol, in the void hope that it will "attract mainstream attention and further understanding". the only thing that is liable to accomplish is give all the idiots, from christian women of america to militant feminists to probably bin laden & the taliban one single thing to shoot at.

albatross, erin, in fact i have a simple answer. when you do things that others control, or at least impact the outcome of, you're real. when you do things only when you alone control the outcome of, you're fake.

quote:

Most people here don't want anything to be well defined......
Most people here want all definitions to be solely in the mind of the definer...
Most people want BDSM to be defined as "whatever works for me"....

Also most people are idiots, as we have previously experimentally established. Why should that deter anyone ?

(in reply to Finagle)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:36:45 AM

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I do think sexuality is private. It might be considered by some the "coward's way out" of the issue, but I personally avoid it by never answering questions about that part of my life from people I think don't have any right asking the question (which includes most people). I just smile sweetly and say: "Gosh I don't know how to answer that. I don't think I've been asked that before. Please excuse me while I get my smelling salts", hehe.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 6:40:21 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to zenofeller)

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