RE: Real BDSM

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Real BDSM

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Real BDSM

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:42:24 AM

Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

But really - how does one gage someone's experience level? It's a serious (and not unimportant) question that did result from this thread topic (so all is not lost, hopefully).

-Susan

Agreed, we might as well salvage something.
But a question first. Your experience level, or another's?
If you don't have a lot of experience, then you may not catch the subtle things that a person with more time in grade (sorry, had to) would pick up on. But one clue is that if you go to a auto mechanic and he claims ten years experience, but has only a 12x8x6 inch toolbox, you can pretty safely assume he is being less than truthful. I've found the same in general applies to a Top, in that if he has two toys or tools, which had seen little wear, then. . Well.

Your own experience, much easier. Claim what you feel is reasonable, and then explain when asked.

As for the OP.... I'm not ever sure what the question was.

_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:43:00 AM

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
However, BDSM is a matter of sexuality. Sexuality is private.

actually, i'd beg to differ. there are aspects of bdsm (such as the, um, 24/7 d/s aspect) that for many don't JUST revolve around sexuality.

this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating).

ironbear, thank you for your post.

also, as la mentioned, you failed to define real and pseudo - my guess would be because that leaves you open to making up your definition as you go along so you can agree with what you want to agree with and disagree with what you don't.

_____________________________

i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:44:06 AM

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
Also most people are idiots, as we have previously experimentally established. Why should that deter anyone ?

Did I say it should? On the far end of the spectrum I admire people who are undaunted by the insurmountable...and at the very least I am entertained by them. Please, by all means, forge on in your exercise in futility.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:44:34 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

LOLOL,

It may be that time in service is easier to reckon than time in grade......

Been there, done that.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:44:57 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
The inability to clearly see this difference, often enough voluntary, due to the catfighting reflexively prompted by any suggestion that this or that is or is not "real BDSM", where "real" is of course seen as an ethical distinction, put the community in a very strange position, and in my oppinion generate most of the drama.

Well you talk a lot about there being a difference between "real" bdsm and "psuedo" bdsm- but you don't clearly define either term or what necessarily differentiates one from the other.

I get that you think there's a difference, but I have no idea what you consider that difference to be (other than one being "playing" and the other "real" which again really doesn't define anything).

Zenofellow, I would like you to address what LA stated above. At the very least I would like a basis from which to view this "intellectual" discourse that you started here. Anyone knows that you cannot debate something without first defining it.

On Edit: I read your definition after this and it still isn't a real definition in my mind, people have to agree on the definition and I very much doubt you could get us to.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/29/2006 6:48:36 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:46:11 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
However, BDSM is a matter of sexuality. Sexuality is private.

actually, i'd beg to differ. there are aspects of bdsm (such as the, um, 24/7 d/s aspect) that for many don't JUST revolve around sexuality.

this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating).

ironbear, thank you for your post.

also, as la mentioned, you failed to define real and pseudo - my guess would be because that leaves you open to making up your definition as you go along so you can agree with what you want to agree with and disagree with what you don't.

Salute'

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to fullofgrace)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:47:05 AM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Kennel - I was referring to theirs (mine is next to zero in most people's books, probably - a year w/a man we saw eachother a few times a week and did spanking, bondage, whipping, and cropping (and a few other things) - but by no means what some here have done. That is a very helpful answer - I really never did think of that, thank you.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/29/2006 6:50:45 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:50:30 AM

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline

since it apparently managed to get somehow overlooked, let me repeat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
albatross, erin, in fact i have a simple answer. when you do things that others control, or at least impact the outcome of, you're real. when you do things only when you alone control the outcome of, you're fake.

now grace, that's an excellent objection. on one hand, the crying mothers with babes and what not, on the other the people who don't want to play pretend about their relationship just because some others can't stomach it. no simple answers there, i don't think.

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:57:03 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller

since it apparently managed to get somehow overlooked, let me repeat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
albatross, erin, in fact i have a simple answer. when you do things that others control, or at least impact the outcome of, you're real. when you do things only when you alone control the outcome of, you're fake.

now grace, that's an excellent objection. on one hand, the crying mothers with babes and what not, on the other the people who don't want to play pretend about their relationship just because some others can't stomach it. no simple answers there, i don't think.

You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed.

Edited for a typo

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/29/2006 6:58:45 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:58:22 AM

Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline

to gauge experience level, watch them at play parties, Munches, read CM Posts. Ask questions of people You trust. Ask them questions.

Trust how YOU feel about anyones level of experience and go with what YOU believe AFTER using all the input.

_____________________________

Kink Forever
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Docents_of_Museum/

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 6:59:17 AM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating).

But your statement, is a judgement in itself - so you must be crass and rude as well.

There isnt anything wrong in making a judgement when based on personal truth. If you use your own defination and not follow the crowd or the moral code. Ethically, judgements are beautiful and personal.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to fullofgrace)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:01:17 AM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Sound of mind.....

Which is the crux of the issue.................

It is ALL psuedo BDSM until the rubber meets the ass.

Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby...........ain't nothin' like the real thing.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to artglfr)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:02:51 AM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense to me. Appreciate it.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to artglfr)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:02:53 AM

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed.

for the first time on this board, i have absolutely no idea what you're saying. please be kind and take me slowly.

i say that the outcomes are the result of human interaction, you're real, and if not, you're not.

i understand you to be saying that
1. i only talk about Doms or Masters (why ?)
2. being topped from the bottom is not a matter of control (i think it is)
3.power exchange or control isnt a pre-requisite for bdsm (i never said it was, not that i mean it isn't, but anyway)

now as you can see, virtually every phrase in your post reads to me as either false or unrelated, some of them both. i must be missing something.

<edited to explain 2>

< Message edited by zenofeller -- 6/29/2006 7:08:26 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:03:34 AM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed.

But within your request, there is still a power exchange.

I maybe wrong, but what I believe Zeno is getting at is that without the power exchange, BDSM isn't really BDSM.

If one works on the premise that BDSM is an acronym, which it is, then the power exchange is there in every item on the list... there no doubt in that. Even in a masturbatory relationship there is still an exchange of power.

Without the exchange of power, BDSM isnt BDSM.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:06:42 AM

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline

basically, if you just jack off, you just jack off. but if you have to ask permission first, persay, you are not just playing with yourself, and that interaction is what makes it bdsm.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:08:49 AM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

3.power exchange or control isnt a pre-requisite for bdsm (i never said it was)

Masturbation - isnt BDSM.

But you can masturbate and it can be an act of BDSM. Just because one is alone, does not make it unreal. I thought at first you were indicating that BDSM must have the PE. I find that interesting. But I think I am understanding it more now - although I am having a hard time verbalising it - I can see it visually, but the words are failing me.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:09:17 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
basically, if you just jack off, you just jack off. but if you have to ask permission first, persay, you are not just playing with yourself, and that interaction is what makes it bdsm.

Then how do your initial examples apply?

Obviously in the example of a girl being able to cut herself loose- the top ALLOWED that to happen. The top said "I'm setting this up so you can let yourself out if necessary" The top is still the one in the authority position.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:10:57 AM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

If you jack off alone though, but need to bind you ankles together first, you are submitting to the urge and exchanging that in doing it. Jacking off is like you say, jacking off... but getting off on the bondage and jacking off, the PE is there, even if it is just within an individual - so there isn't even a black and white way to say that all masturbation isnt BDSM.

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 6/29/2006 7:12:08 AM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to zenofeller)

RE: Real BDSM - 6/29/2006 7:13:25 AM

Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline

the entire "is is or is it not a power exchange" discussion i would rather leave untouched. i think it's just an artificial construct with absolutely no content.

one can happily take the extreme stand that breathing is a power exchange, because in the act of breathing we acknowledge our life depends on it, it's not a choice, it's a need. that absurdity couldn't be countered and so voila, everyone on earth, people and animals are into power exchange.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Real BDSM

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.139