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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 9:10:47 PM

littlewonder

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rofl...forcing Master into anything is like trying to force an elephant into a tiny barn. You just know it isn't going to end well.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 11:29:14 PM

LittleGirlHeart

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No.

now , I am open to casually dating or open relationships or fuck buddies, or one or twice a time agreements. but that's not what you asked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Beyond the "it is the master's right..." Are you (or when you were looking) interested in only monogamous relationships or were you ok with someone who expresses a desire to be in a poly dynamic? I am talking about "serious" relationships not just dating more than one person or being "open"

I have always been adamant that I am strictly interested in one on one.. I don't share well and I have some very firm convictions on human nature. It is not my cup of tea; however, it seems to be something for which many dominants express a desire..

Sorry...I have been questioning whether I can stay in this lifestyle..Yes, I know it is all about finding the "right" match but sometimes it just seems that some things I am unwilling to compromise on are the exact things that the majority of others are also unwilling to compromise on but from the other end...

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 11:30:46 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness. There's plenty of that in people in poly too. People without those qualities are poly by default IMO. I strive to not have those qualities (while owning a slave lol).

I also believe that monogamy is very unnatural and has been forced on our culture by the church for the last few millennia. Understand that it originated in a time when women were little better than slaves in actuality. A rich harem girl lived a much better life than a year 105 farmer's wife, so the church had to force people to get out there and be monogamous or the wife/slaveless farmers would riot

I cant disagree more. Monogamy is a choice, just like poly is. I cant force a man to be monogamous. He could do as he pleases, even if I dont know about it. I have been in poly's... I have been monogamous. All depends on the relationship and what the individuals want out of it. Not everyone is designed to have multiple partners.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 1:36:22 AM

TieMeInKnottss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

No.

now , I am open to casually dating or open relationships or fuck buddies, or one or twice a time agreements. but that's not what you asked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Beyond the "it is the master's right..." Are you (or when you were looking) interested in only monogamous relationships or were you ok with someone who expresses a desire to be in a poly dynamic? I am talking about "serious" relationships not just dating more than one person or being "open"

I have always been adamant that I am strictly interested in one on one.. I don't share well and I have some very firm convictions on human nature. It is not my cup of tea; however, it seems to be something for which many dominants express a desire..

Sorry...I have been questioning whether I can stay in this lifestyle..Yes, I know it is all about finding the "right" match but sometimes it just seems that some things I am unwilling to compromise on are the exact things that the majority of others are also unwilling to compromise on but from the other end...

LGH - my last few comments were directed at specific postings not so much about my original question

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 10:07:30 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

Evolutionary point? I'm of the opinion that it wasn't evolution at all but something that was conditioned on humanity by religion over the past few millennia. Monogamy is unnatural. That's why so-called monogamous people constantly cheat on each other. Of course, natural is for the strongest male to kill, drive off or dominate the other males into submission, and that's not exactly healthy.

Completely disagree this is why people cheat. Cheating is generally due to a break in intimacy and not having the tools, strength, or ethics to fix it. There was a whole rather passionate thread about that recently in Off Topics, so lets not totally derail this thread with it. I know of cheaters who justify it by saying monogamy is unnatural though.

There is no universal "natural" orientation, in my opinion (poly, mono, straight, gay, dominant, submissive, etc.). You risk sliding down a very slippery slope when you go there. Recognize who and what YOU (general) are, and be true to that.

Yes, this is why I cheated. That and substance abuse at the time. Since then I made the choice to be ethical and have been in poly relationships, open relationships, and am now happily monogamous.

BTW, I am not wired to be jealous or possessive, which works out well, as I am currently sharing him with his elderly parents ;)

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 8/29/2013 10:08:32 AM >

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 11:34:39 AM

OrionTheWolf

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~FR~

My girl has been reading along on this topic and mentioned earlier that she might like a sister-slave if they were the right person. I told her not no but hell no. Too much going on right now and I would need to think it through for a long while. Mono or poly has nothing to do with it as much as looking our for my sanity.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 12:51:21 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

rofl...forcing Master into anything is like trying to force an elephant into a tiny barn. You just know it isn't going to end well.

I use the term 'stubborn as a rock.'

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 12:52:14 PM

chatterbox24

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness. There's plenty of that in people in poly too. People without those qualities are poly by default IMO. I strive to not have those qualities (while owning a slave lol).

I also believe that monogamy is very unnatural and has been forced on our culture by the church for the last few millennia. Understand that it originated in a time when women were little better than slaves in actuality. A rich harem girl lived a much better life than a year 105 farmer's wife, so the church had to force people to get out there and be monogamous or the wife/slaveless farmers would riot

I cant disagree more. Monogamy is a choice, just like poly is. I cant force a man to be monogamous. He could do as he pleases, even if I dont know about it. I have been in poly's... I have been monogamous. All depends on the relationship and what the individuals want out of it. Not everyone is designed to have multiple partners.

Quite ridiculous. Unnatural and forced by the church? Oh please. It is a choice and if your really good at it and have a good partner, you can work through anything, because you have committed. It has nothing to do with jealousy and possessiveness, although Im sure there are individuals who have those qualities anyway, as well as ones that do not.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 8/29/2013 12:53:05 PM >

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 1:37:32 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I cant disagree more. Monogamy is a choice, just like poly is.

... sort of...

For me at least saying "monogamy is a choice" is a lot like saying "dominance is a choice". Yeah, I have a strong native inclination. Yeah, I can choose within limits to work against my own grain. Yeah, I can even choose to change my grain. But for me at least, I never really "chose" monogamy and I'm not doing it now. I just plain don't have any interest. For me, saying "monogamy is a choice" is exactly like saying "gay is a choice".

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 2:08:16 PM

chatterbox24

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I cant disagree more. Monogamy is a choice, just like poly is.

... sort of...

For me at least saying "monogamy is a choice" is a lot like saying "dominance is a choice". Yeah, I have a strong native inclination. Yeah, I can choose within limits to work against my own grain. Yeah, I can even choose to change my grain. But for me at least, I never really "chose" monogamy and I'm not doing it now. I just plain don't have any interest. For me, saying "monogamy is a choice" is exactly like saying "gay is a choice".

I think this very interesting. Do you mind elaborating?

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 2:17:20 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I think this very interesting. Do you mind elaborating?

I can try but there isn't much to elaborate on. It's really very simple. For whatever reasons I tend to form a single pair bond and once that bond is formed there just isn't any interest or desire in another such one. I have no interest in fucking random women I don't love. I have no interest in loving anyone other than Carol. I'm just not interested. Once I am "mated" women other than my mate no longer look like "females" to me, they look like "people".

If you want to think of it this way, I prefer depth over breadth. Those are my "defaults".

Now... I've never been a huge believer i this whole "wired this way" gig that folks like to talk about. Sure, I think there are native proclivities and some of them are strong. But I also believe humans are highly adaptable if they choose to be. I think I could learn to like gay sex if I had some sort of strong motivation to do it. I think I could learn to like submission (at least in the relationship context) if I had some strong motivation to do it. So I think I can "rewire" myself in pretty much everything but to simply say "monogamy is a choice" is missing the entire point at least for me.

Monogamy would be more of a choice if I was one of those guys who liked getting as much pussy as possible. Then I'd need to make a conscious choice to remain monogamous. As it sits, I'm just doing what comes naturally.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 3:18:44 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

rofl...forcing Master into anything is like trying to force an elephant into a tiny barn. You just know it isn't going to end well.

My goodness! Subby think oozes from your pores.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

... Now that's not to say we might not play with someone from time to time if the opportunity presented itself but neither of us considers that poly. It's just fucking around.

The problem with this as I see it is that suppose the female you as a couple are "fucking around" with becomes pregnant? As an aspiring polygamist, in such a case taking her under my wing is something I should consider. It is also a reson why it is important to be selective even if the goal was to fuck around.

I agree with chatterbox24.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

... It is a choice and if your really good at it and have a good partner, you can work through anything, because you have committed. It has nothing to do with jealousy and possessiveness, although Im sure there are individuals who have those qualities anyway, as well as ones that do not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

Beyond the "it is the master's right..." Are you (or when you were looking) interested in only monogamous relationships or were you ok with someone who expresses a desire to be in a poly dynamic? I am talking about "serious" relationships not just dating more than one person or being "open"

I have always been adamant that I am strictly interested in one on one..

It is fun until the bill arrives and few are deep thinkers. In the latest revision of my profile text I wrote, "A person who is weak will betray you for they are not strong and a good female is impossible not to love."

As a female you realize instinctively what some of all of this means whereas men often do not. Unfortunately, willingness for a female to embrace polygamy could indicate their superority over other females or their inferiority with respect to other females. There is less risk to assuming the I'm against polygamy position; hence, it is the route usually taken.

If I were given a chance to sleep with a thousand super-models, no doubt a few would carry child. Bringing in another female means you have to work that much harder to keep it from falling apart. The females must work harder. For it to work, they must work very hard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I just don't have the energy for more than one person. It would exhaust me. Even when my daughter was still young and I was dating Master, I would get so very tired from giving attention to both of them. It's another reason why I only had one child. I knew I wouldn't have the patience or energy for more than one. Then again, I'm also the type who can only be around people for so long before I need to get away from everyone and just crash. My body and mind just start to hurt.

My mental abilities just don't extend that far.

It is about putting womanhood on a pestal, not a woman. If I were to put those super-models with child under my wing (those who carry my child), the result would be a polygamist relationship involving many females. How else does one show respect? When you walk away unfortunately it generally means I didn't really want you and you really don't have what it takes to be wanted. It's not nice. So despite the hardship I would insist that they get along with each other and learn to value each other as a sister. How many men would assume such a risk? A bird in hand is better than two in a bush. To take them all under your wing is to risk everything and being left with nothing since women were not created equal. Some are better than others.

I feel that what littlewonder wrote is ambiguous because it reminds me of the famous line from the film Dirty Harry, "A man's got to know his limitations." So too must a woman, but having said that it is possible to give a hundred and ten percent, more than you thought was possible. With more than one fully committed female, Master would require less attention for he too has limitations. The most important service a female can provide in a polygamous relationship is the ability to get along and be a team player.

The wives collectively form a single organism. Though no one female is a super woman fully capable of doing it all in truth, collectively they can be. Collectively they can serve him as a submissive Goddess may serve a God.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 5:13:01 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
It is about putting womanhood on a pestal, not a woman.

What a fascinating thing to say... thanks.

Immediately when I read that I saw an interesting difference. I don't bond to concepts I bond to people. For instance, while I have many times felt a great deal of loyalty to my immediate management chain I have never had any loyalty to my corporation. My opinions about the conceptual corporation are entirely tied to my opinions of my immediate manager. Ditto with women. The idea that I would put a concept like "womanhood" on a pedestal just doesn't connect with me at all. Putting CAROL on a pedestal, however... yeah that goes without saying.

quote:

If I were to put those super-models with child under my wing (those who carry my child), the result would be a polygamist relationship involving many females. How else does one show respect?

Not that I'm trying to say your way is wrong but you asked "how else?" The other obvious answer is to setup whatever financial and other arrangements which are required to care for my child through college without modifying my marriage.

quote:

How many men would assume such a risk?

If you think of this as some sort of seriously risky behavior then I don't know what to say. I would assume that risk without a moment's hesitation and I would not think of it as a risk. I already know Carol's mettle. I'd already know the mettle of anyone I was fucking. There'd be no risk. There'd be me building a 3-way family and two women helping out. Were that not true my dick never would have been in that pussy to start with... either of those pussies.

quote:

A bird in hand is better than two in a bush. To take them all under your wing is to risk everything and being left with nothing since women were not created equal. Some are better than others.

Sure... but ALL of the women I'd be fucking would be more than capable of this.

quote:

The wives collectively form a single organism. Though no one female is a super woman fully capable of doing it all in truth, collectively they can be. Collectively they can serve him as a submissive Goddess may serve a God.

Very poetic. I'd be more inclined to think, "They will both freakin obey because they must." In other words, this would be a purely dominance question to me. I have obligations to provide for and a plan for doing it and the parties involved will play along because I'm not planning on offering options."

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 5:13:22 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I cant disagree more. Monogamy is a choice, just like poly is.

... sort of...

For me at least saying "monogamy is a choice" is a lot like saying "dominance is a choice". Yeah, I have a strong native inclination. Yeah, I can choose within limits to work against my own grain. Yeah, I can even choose to change my grain. But for me at least, I never really "chose" monogamy and I'm not doing it now. I just plain don't have any interest. For me, saying "monogamy is a choice" is exactly like saying "gay is a choice".

Having a propensity to a certain orientation doesn't equate to one being active towards that orientation. Many a gay person has denied their orientation and made a different choice. Amazing what social pressures do on a person and their choices. I think it's easier to make choices to live a certain lifestyle that isn't perceived on the surf as different than the mainstream. You and carol can walk down many streets holding hands and no one will take note. The same can't be said for those of multiple person relationships or same sex couples. I believe that when one walks in mainstream and is visibly different than the norm there is a more conscious choice being made in the beginning. In time maybe less so.

I would also state if you never consider or entertained the idea of poly or a poly sexual experience then yeah. You just very nature took to monogamy like breathing. But even a momentary consideration of poly and rejection of it is in of it self choosing to remain monogamist. That is making a choice. Monogamist generally don't choose to be monogamist. They choose not to be poly and the default is to monogamist. I believe we often make choices that accept or reject one thing that results in opposite occurring. I am not aroused sexually by men and I will not choose to engage in the activity. And yes I even thought about it. Tried to see and look at men in a sexual way. Wondered is it nature or nurture. Besides... I think those fuckers that can go both ways have a hell of lot of fun... And I am greedy! Lol. But in the end. I know the am het and it will not change. I can do SM with a male no issues. I can grab his cock and beat the fuck out of it with a small cane. But nope nothing sexually... Just love to cause pain. To bad kyra... No man on man with me ;)

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 8:37:03 PM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
<snip>
I prefer depth over breadth....

From what I have observed (so anecdotal only), those who desire poly usually seek breadth in relationships, and those who desire monogamy seek depth of relationship. Perhaps that is why, in general, poly relationships are comparatively short-lived (except for Knight of Mists

). I am thinking this might be the real basis for my hard limit against poly, maybe for others too.

Edit typo.

< Message edited by Spiritedsub2 -- 8/29/2013 8:38:31 PM >

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 8:45:01 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

This:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

As near as I can tell accumulating slaves is how "dominants" count coup. For all intents and purposes I'm monogamous and have no desire to seek out anything else. In my opinion you shouldn't be willing to compromise on this particular point.. not because I think it's so sacrosanct that it's immune from compromise. Rather, I think most doms wanting multiple subs can't handle one girl much less two.

Please just toss out the 'it's the master's right' bullcrap. It's only his/her right if they are in a relationship with people who accept that, and if he/she is entirely honest and transparent about it. Forcing this issue at any point is manipulative in a way that means you should get out fast.

Absolutely! I am monogamous but he is even more so, I don't object to a little wild side adventure now and then on a trip to Vegas for example, but an emotional actual poly thing? Never.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 8:51:16 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I would also state if you never consider or entertained the idea of poly or a poly sexual experience then yeah. You just very nature took to monogamy like breathing. But even a momentary consideration of poly and rejection of it is in of it self choosing to remain monogamist. That is making a choice.

Yup. And quite literally not an hour ago I was pondering how cool it'd be to fly as I watched some crows. So I made a choice to be landbound, right? Much as I like you you are smoking crack here. Look, I ponder all sorts of things all the time. I even invested a full year's worth of effort re-wiring Carol to be poly-capable (and to some extent, myself also). Yet, oddly enough, I remain entirely uninterested in actually pursuing a poly relationship. The default stance is pretty strong and I have little incentive to change it. So the only way this statement becomes true is in the rather ridiculous expectation of near infinite self-control that I tend to have (and not always measure up to). But in a more pragmatic fashion it's just plain not so.

quote:

Monogamist generally don't choose to be monogamist. They choose not to be poly and the default is to monogamist. I believe we often make choices that accept or reject one thing that results in opposite occurring.

So to be clear, the poly guy is telling the monogamous guy what he's doing and why? You really, really want to hold to that line?

quote:

I know the am het and it will not change.

OK, bit of an interesting tangent but for me I would NEVER say that. It goes right back to "I'm in control of me." That statement would strike right to the heart of everything I see as "dominant" (and no, I'm not saying you're not dom, I'm saying I'm an odd duck with how I see this whole "wired" business).

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 9:30:57 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I would also state if you never consider or entertained the idea of poly or a poly sexual experience then yeah. You just very nature took to monogamy like breathing. But even a momentary consideration of poly and rejection of it is in of it self choosing to remain monogamist. That is making a choice.

Yup. And quite literally not an hour ago I was pondering how cool it'd be to fly as I watched some crows. So I made a choice to be landbound, right? Much as I like you you are smoking crack here. Look, I ponder all sorts of things all the time. I even invested a full year's worth of effort re-wiring Carol to be poly-capable (and to some extent, myself also). Yet, oddly enough, I remain entirely uninterested in actually pursuing a poly relationship. The default stance is pretty strong and I have little incentive to change it. So the only way this statement becomes true is in the rather ridiculous expectation of near infinite self-control that I tend to have (and not always measure up to). But in a more pragmatic fashion it's just plain not so.

Sorry Jeff I gotta jump in here and ask something because your reply confused me and I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting. Are you saying monogamy is NOT a choice for you? Since you ponder flying and can't fly, you ponder poly but can't poly? Am I connecting those dots correctly?

What I'm getting is, you don't believe people are wired a certain way, but you don't believe it's an active choice to be that way, yet you re-wired Carol to be that way even though she wasn't that way to begin with (but it wasn't a choice for her).

Besides the fact that your comparison of pondering poly (something that is physically possible) to flying like a bird (something that is fantasy and magical), I'm really not understanding what you're saying. Maybe it's in your wording, maybe it's in my comprehension, but...I'm not getting it.

quote:

quote:

I know the am het and it will not change.

OK, bit of an interesting tangent but for me I would NEVER say that. It goes right back to "I'm in control of me." That statement would strike right to the heart of everything I see as "dominant" (and no, I'm not saying you're not dom, I'm saying I'm an odd duck with how I see this whole "wired" business).

And if you're in control of you, then what you do or don't do is your choice, right? Except monogamy is not your choice? But you're not "wired" for it, either?

I get that you think monogamy is no more a choice than being gay. I don't get how you don't agree that people are "wired" a certain way.

And if Carol's monogamistic (?is that a word?) nature was not a choice, then how is it she is no longer monogamistic? If she wasn't wired a certain way, how did you re-wire her?

Seriously interested in what you're trying to describe here.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 9:47:56 PM

sexyred1

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Fast reply:

I think this thread proved somewhat useful if you want to hear arguments for or against mono or poly.

Nothing will change my mind about how I only desire to be with one partner when in a commited relationship or why the next person thinks poly is the bees knees.

There are no arguments here to win or lose. Neither side is going to be swayed, whether the argument is religious, brain wiring or you think it is a Dominant's right to be poly.

That last bit about a Dominant's right to be with multiple women? That is the one I call bullshit on.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 8/29/2013 9:49:24 PM >

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/29/2013 9:57:23 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

There are no arguments here to win or lose. Neither side is going to be swayed, whether the argument is religious, brain wiring or you think it is a Dominant's right to be poly.

I totally agree. Poly/mono conversations can elicit very strong reactions from people. Heck, I avoided going to one of my friend's private discussion group dinners because the topic was Poly/becoming Poly and I felt anger building up inside me at even the idea of going. She and her husband asked and re-asked and actually kinda bugged me to go because they wanted my perspective, and I got angrier.

To me all I could envision was a bunch of men sitting around trying to convince their women of why they should have it. Right or wrong, that's what went through my head, and I didn't want to be a part of it.

I don't become that reactive anymore, but I certainly understand that some folks can have pretty strong feelings about it, and that no amount of arguing on a discussion board is going to change someone's mind, even if people just need to talk or argue about it anyway, for whatever their reasons.

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