RE: Re: An update on posting style

Post #: 101

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:21:23 AM

mnottertail

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Yeah, hate to be English, but that is not what irony is.

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Post #: 102

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:22:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminRho

We are willing to have another unmoderated thread, if we get enough interest.

Can we have one that is called "This is why I think you are a dick"? Not you dear lady but thread title.

Lol, I was thinking an unmoderated thread for 2nd amendment debates...

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 103

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:28:38 AM

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How can you know who is putting tickets in? I thought only the mods knew? If that is the case, then you are stating assumption as if it is fact. Being one of the long time regs here, people are going to believe your assumption as fact, which is disingenuous and playing the same political game you claim others are doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I left this one for a while and now I'm back.

First, I don't necessarily see the Mods being partisan as much as I see them being used by a couple of passive aggressive little whiners who use them to get threads locked and deleted. (Sanity was an expert at that. He'd slam the board with a bunch of posts calling people names and then file a score or more of tickets to anything that was posted so instead of zapping him, the mods would just sigh, shake their heads and lock the thread)

I'm not naming names here but if the shoe fits then lace that motherfucker up and wear it.

Maybe if the main whiners were sent on a little vacation then more peaceful discourse would reign.

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Post #: 104

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:40:05 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

How can you know who is putting tickets in? I thought only the mods knew? If that is the case, then you are stating assumption as if it is fact. Being one of the long time regs here, people are going to believe your assumption as fact, which is disingenuous and playing the same political game you claim others are doing.

I have, over the decades, found out things that I wasn't supposed to know because there are those who haven't a clue what internet security is.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 9/24/2013 11:42:49 AM >

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Post #: 105

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:46:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

This has been investigated more than once, and in fact Alpha made a posting on this matter, as have (iirc) rho and chi.

Alpha repeatedly said that haytch house and the various and sundry alters were not Arpig even as she was banning others for saying it was so.

So, that is weak tea for a cold.

I've run a board for a long time now and the only tools she likely has to verify identity are ip address and email address and it is trivial to get new ones of each.

1. Our mod tools show no connection between the posters in question.
2. Leaving aside the question of whether or not our mod tools are effective, the other poster in question is not permabanned so the point is moot. You may have more than one nick but they cannot both post in the same thread.
3. If posters suspect someone is a sock of a banned poster, they should bring it to moderator attention.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 106

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:47:47 AM

mnottertail

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Nobody knows or cares who is banned.

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Post #: 107

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:51:42 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

FR,

Complaints are starting to come in for this thread. I would prefer to not moderate a thread on moderation, and won't be moderating this one myself, but the reporters do have a point about allowing a debate about the rules that breaks the rules.

Please knock off the nasty digs about each other.

If y'all are interested in having another unmoderated thread as Rho described above, let us know and we will discuss.

Yes, I'd like to have an open discussion on this subject including which tool made 46 reports in 24 hours.

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

Post #: 108

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 11:56:47 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I don't think I've made 46 reports in 5 years.

I have. Necros, personal ads, wrong forum, spam, and I don't even remember what else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Just include those items in a drop box... that would limit abuse... After all these are modern computers... there is no reason reports can't be structured before they come to the attention of a moderator. I still believe however that all accepted complaints should be made public with the name of those filing the complaints.

I personally have not ever clicked the report button but if I did I would stand by my complaint publicly.

Butch

Oh, it's not that I have an issue with speaking up publicly. It's that I think the system works as "fill in the blank" and drop down isn't necessary. Even if it was, asking the Mods to do it isn't going to cut it. Aren't those decisions made by the owner?

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(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 109

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 12:21:01 PM

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Even the government has exceptions to Free Speech.

A site is going to handle things as they see fit, based upon their knowledge of how things are. Their knowledge would include emails and the reports.

A site will then make a decision, and often it is based on popular support because they are a business first. If people cannot accept that then there are forums that are not run by any business that people can post on.

It seems many people are saying "this is not fair". I learned a long time ago as an adult that life is not fair.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Yeah, I do have to agree this is a pretty egregious abuse of moderator discretion.

Mods are here to enforce the rules. People can show bruises, beatings, whips, chains - but political speach where you dressed as trayvon martin is not allowed?

We have rules about free speech in society exactly to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn't need protection.

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Post #: 110

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 12:31:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I don't think I've made 46 reports in 5 years.

I have. Necros, personal ads, wrong forum, spam, and I don't even remember what else.

Reports we sustain, like yours, are quite helpful. The problem is reports for non-issues. For example, many people report something as being a personal attack when it was not. We spend a lot of time working with people trying to explain what is and is not a PA, as well as time spent reading the thread to get the context in which the post occurred.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 111

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 12:33:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well since we are just talking freely…I would propose that the report feature be limited to only direct threats of violence and child porn.

Disagree. It has been shown throughout the life of the internet, that where politics, religion or philosophy are discussed, you must have rules against flaming and such or you will not actually have discussions. It will just be flamefests.

quote:

I am all for the moderators stepping in as they review threads and if they see TOS being violated then disciplining as needed. But too many people use the report feature as a weapon when they are unable to keep up and defend their position intellectually.

The mods have said before that just because a report is filed, does not mean they actually take action. They have said it just alerts them to a possible problem. They have asked for it to be used, rather than members try and handle things that ultimately become worse.

quote:

The experiment of low moderation awhile back worked just fine and the thread was one of the most interesting we have had. We should have more of that and less squabbling over what is attacking a poster and what is defending a position

One topic is not a thorough experiment, and that topic was actually about 10 topics. 10 topics in 1 make it horrible for someone to try and follow the discussion unless they have hours a day to do so.

quote:

I believe the report button should be removed from the post box and all complaints should be posted publicly in a moderator thread at the top of the room. I think it only fair that who ever makes a complaint should be willing to stand by their complaint and it should be posted for all to see...even the one the complaint is against.

Butch

There is that fair word again. Life is not fair. Making things public just begs for the mob to harass someone that is trying to follow the rules. I have no issue telling something to someone's face, but to believe that everyone will do this is ludicrous. All it will do is silence some that have complaints.

We are adults here. We all agree to follow the rules. Those that don't should just be booted. The broke their word and are causing problems by breaking the rules.

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Post #: 112

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 12:35:12 PM

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I thought there had already been an experiment of P&R being unmoderated and it led to issues overflowing into other sections and P&R becoming less about discussion and more of just a place to have flame wars.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The experiment of low moderation awhile back worked just fine and the thread was one of the most interesting we have had. We should have more of that and less squabbling over what is attacking a poster and what defending a position

Butch

Many have asked for P&R to be completely unmoderatedbut that would require a slight abdication of control and that's just not going to happen.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Post #: 113

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 12:41:58 PM

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1) People are again having to take you at your word about "secret knowledge".

2) If you have in fact broken into areas that admins have access to, you realize you admit to a felony and or likely to get banned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

How can you know who is putting tickets in? I thought only the mods knew? If that is the case, then you are stating assumption as if it is fact. Being one of the long time regs here, people are going to believe your assumption as fact, which is disingenuous and playing the same political game you claim others are doing.

I have, over the decades, found out things that I wasn't supposed to know because there are those who haven't a clue what internet security is.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 114

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 2:20:31 PM

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FR,

The purpose of this thread is not to sling insults at each other and posts are going to be evaluated by moderators less tolerant than I.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 115

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 3:01:15 PM

Kana

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46 reports in a day?
Daaaayyyyuuuumm.
Sounds like there's a big chunk of the problem right there.

For the record, Kana's total is reports 0, blocked posters 0, haven't gotten a gold letter in memory (And the last one I received the Mod personally agreed with me but was sticking to a fine line on TOS...one in which they've kinda come around to my argument).
Cripes, it ain't too hard.I mean shit, talk like you'd like to be talked to, take the high road when people sling shit, stick with the point at hand and not the poster.

Meanwhile:

quote:

The experiment of low moderation awhile back worked just fine and the thread was one of the most interesting we have had. We should have more of that and less squabbling over what is attacking a poster and what is defending a position

I agree. I found it fascinating that there was a lot less name calling,flaming, trolling and BS in that thread than in most moderated threads, that there was a large effort put forth by a number of the posters to self moderate the thread. The result was an actual debate on, as mentioned back in the thread a bit back, a wide variety of topics encapsulated within a primary discussion.
That people actually sought moderation on what was titled an unmoderated thread cracks me up.
That shit's funny.
This fucking place. Apparently it's just packed full of dominants who can dish it out but not take it. Worse, when their lil teeny tiny feelings get all hurt, they go crying to Mama, which ain't exactly the most take charge thing to do.

(And yes, I know that a lot of folks from the other side of the kneel post here, but there's a lot of "dominants" too)

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Post #: 116

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 3:21:50 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Yes, I'd like to have an open discussion on this subject including which tool made 46 reports in 24 hours.

Despite assumption: not I.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 9/24/2013 3:22:28 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 117

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 3:27:22 PM

Gauge

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This is a fast reply to no one in particular and everyone all inclusive or any differing belief system:

The moderators do not owe you shit for an explanation of their actions.

I stay out of this forum most of the time, and if I do, I pop in, make a point, participate a little bit, and then leave. I have to tell you that you are all lucky that I am not a moderator because you all would wet your pants because the very second that the discussion degenerated into anything other than a level headed discussion, everyone would get a time out because most of you are acting like fucking children. It is fine to disagree, it is fine to debate, hell, it is even OK to get angry, but if I was a mod, I would visit a thread and tell everyone to play nicely with each other or I will pull the plug and I wouldn't care what you called me for doing so or what bias you thought I may have. Simply put, grow up or that would be the end of the discussion no matter what the topic.

I have moderated message boards since I first found my way onto the Internet. I have been accused of everything from being a Nazi to working for the covert shadow government that doesn't want truth to spread. Keeping a level head while wanting to choke the life out of someone for their rank stupidity was amazingly difficult to do, but I did it. One of the message boards was a sports message board. When it was an Olympic year, that board was filled with some of the most vile racism I have ever been witness to. After locking hundreds of threads because they were not worth cleaning up because of the fact that it was overrun with stupidity, I got a full inbox of both thanks and cursing me out. Thankless job? Yep, it is... and that is why if I got thanked or cussed out I wouldn't respond to either. My favorite were the "Free Speech" brigade, the ones that spouted claims of censorship and conspiratorial malarkey while forgetting that privately owned websites are not covered by the laws of Free Speech, but by the site owners adapted Terms of Service where they basically tell you they can pull your posts and ban you for no reason whatsoever and there isn't a thing you can do about it because they won't let you on their site until you agree it is OK for them to do just that.

Funny thing was when I was a mod, after awhile, people debated without engaging in personalities. People actually exchanged ideas without bashing heads. And everyone agreed that the other could have an opposing view without slinging mud around. People could discuss politics without it degenerating into a kindergarten recess session. People actually had a good time.

I have got to say that the moderators here on this particular forum have been more than lenient and allowed discussions go far beyond what I would tolerate... I suspect they did so in the hopes that a thread would right itself back on topic, and sometimes they are right, often times they are wrong. This is not a moderator problem, this is a participant problem. I forget what thread it was that I recently posted on under politics, but I came to discuss something that interested me, and I got a little friction, but I asked questions because I earnestly was trying to understand something. When it finally was explained to me, I was fine and went on with discussing the topic. And then someone came in and chewed me apart... for what? For my desire to discuss something? I left the thread... and I don't care about whatever it was that was discussed afterward.

Instead of always trying to be right, how about trying to listen to each other for a change? How about trying to meet each other half-way and try to understand a point while not compromising your own. How about trying to understand that it is OK to disagree? How about looking at this dynamic and realize that politically all we are doing anymore are looking at the differences and not the similarities? How about thinking about the fact that as long as the divide in this country continues to beat the shit out of each other, the politicians get away with murder while fueling this fire of dissent? How about conducting yourself like the adults you claim to be? How about keeping your head and not feeding those that would sling around insults because that is all they have in their tank... eventually they starve.

How about I shut the hell up now?

I am off the soapbox. The moderators will never keep people happy, so there is no point in trying to do so. If people cannot get along, there is a block button that is oh, so useful. And if people would start behaving, there would be no need for a report button. Hell, you actually all might find something you can actually agree on.

/rant

< Message edited by Gauge -- 9/24/2013 3:42:35 PM >

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Post #: 118

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 3:29:09 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Might I suggest that certain posters who do nothing but post personal attacks and then report any responses be banned. Most of us are grown ups and do not report posts even when disagreements get heated. However it is clear that certain posters are using the mods to lock/delete threads they are losing.

I notice that you went on at some length about this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I have started reporting posts because the poster in question attacks freely and then reports all responses and I'm sick of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Or certain posters could stop throwing insults and then reporting responses.

The question that arises is, what exactly are you complaining about?

If someone posts a personal attack against you, and then reports your response, wouldn't that be shooting themselves in the foot? When the Mods review the exchange, they're going to yank his post not yours. And isn't that as it should be? Unless, of course, yours was a personal attack too, in which case both posts would be yanked. But there too, isn't that as it should be?

I don't see how what you're describing could give cause for complaint unless in reality the post you responded to wasn't a personal attack, but yours was, earning you a gold-bordered cmail because the poster you attacked declined to roll over for your shit and chose to report your post rather than escalate the exchange.

Is that what you're complaining about?

K.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 119

RE: Re: An update on posting style - 9/24/2013 3:36:24 PM

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Joined: 8/6/2012
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quote:

Yes, I'd like to have an open discussion on this subject including which tool made 46 reports in 24 hours.

That poster is not on this thread, and was not an active P&R participant.

Note: posters should not think that the standard for abusing the ticketing system is 46 reports in 24 hours - that just happened to be how many we woke up to.

(in reply to DomKen)