quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns.

Without even going through all gun threads I know you have extolled the low gun homicide rate in the UK attributing it to your gun laws while at the same time poking a stick at our homicide rates and gun laws. I wonder how I could have got that impression.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic

Ok, so we agree on that. Based on the information we have and his apparent criminal history, the shooter shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, knife or even a slingshot. I don't have a clue why the judge ruled the way he did.

I followed the entire thread and I don't know exactly why it drifted. It seemed to me, though on topic, and except what ever factual information Lucy posted, it turned into a whole lot of useless back and forth jibber jabber. I jumped in where it drifted to tyrants, Hitler, the holocoust and disarming Jews and arming Brits during the war. It was at least, a more interesting conversation. Isn't it funny how things go from here to there ?

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin
you don't want guns in your country FINE don't have guns, but I am about tired of you looking down your nose as us because we DO!

quote:

pretending because we don't wanna end up like the people of bloody sunday means we are cold calous blood thirsty lunatics

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

feel free to explan using whatever adjectives you feel are needed!

you can't have a homicide without a DEATH, how can you have more GUN homicides than TOTAL GUN deaths

yer right I am MISSING SOMETHING HERE!

1) I caught Gammas post about adjectives, so I wont be using any for now.

2) Yes, you are indeed missing something, suicide by gun is included in Gun Deaths but not in Homicides....It aint rocket science.

3) On your other point about terrorist related deaths, I havent pointed them out in any debate other than terrorism ones. Seems fair enough to me, but lets say I had, and all the soldiers had massacred civillians. If that were the case then you overlook most soldiers are usually armed and trained to kill. I would think you could have understood they are not affected by gun laws while in the Army, cause if that were so, you could add all the other deaths from every war since WW1.

So no, my post didnt include every death you mentioned, because they are not part of the debate.

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ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin
you don't want guns in your country FINE don't have guns, but I am about tired of you looking down your nose as us because we DO!

You don't actually know my view on gun control. I'm not in favour.

I was specifically responding to your (entirely false) claim that more people in Northern Ireland were killed by the British army then any other force.

quote:

pretending because we don't wanna end up like the people of bloody sunday means we are cold calous blood thirsty lunatics

Don't kid yourself. Your guns would not be enough to protect you against the large amounts of firepower the US police carry, let alone the army.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

yessss think REALLL HARD about what you said in point two, suicides not being counted as homocide, would mean you'd have a LARGER number of TOTAL gun deaths than gun homicides, not the other way around!

and look you made a broad general statement, now you wanna say welll THOSE kinds of massacres DO NOT COUNT, people here have been REALL ASSES to me about being SPECIFIC, I guess you get a PASS on that though!

BTW when you take into accont the context of the US CONSTITUTION, they are VERY VERY MUCH part of the debate, because that VERY THING is the reason we have the right to bear arms! so we could, if need be, defend ourselves from SOLDIERS!

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns.

Without even going through all gun threads I know you have extolled the low gun homicide rate in the UK attributing it to your gun laws while at the same time poking a stick at our homicide rates and gun laws. I wonder how I could have got that impression.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic

Ok, so we agree on that. Based on the information we have and his apparent criminal history, the shooter shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, knife or even a slingshot. I don't have a clue why the judge ruled the way he did.

I followed the entire thread and I don't know exactly why it drifted. It seemed to me, though on topic, and except what ever factual information Lucy posted, it turned into a whole lot of useless back and forth jibber jabber. I jumped in where it drifted to tyrants, Hitler, the holocoust and disarming Jews and arming Brits during the war. It was at least, a more interesting conversation. Isn't it funny how things go from here to there ?

1) Then you need to look at my posts again, I have never said all your gun laws are wrong, just those regarding some of the types of weapons that seem easily available.

2) Lucys facts were indeed facts those claiming they were not and bringing in the question of arming the Jews and supplying us with arms after the fall of France, were just muddying the waters. Something which happens everytime there is a debate on firearms.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Impossible to outline all aspects of a potential solution here but here's a few ideas about what could be done with little net cost to the community:

Immediately:
*Legalise drugs to remove the source of criminal wealth, power and official corruption.


In the short to medium term:
.............
*comprehensive strategies to counter gangs and gang culture ;
*initiatives to change prison culture from one of punishment to rehabilitation, especially for young offenders and gang members;

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ORIGINAL:
In the short to medium term:
*A series of measures aimed at taking guns out of the public domain entirely without compromising the rights of legitimate gun owners ;

Longer term: Re-evalution of the role of guns in US culture

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic.



I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you.
Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes, exactly that with semi automatics. I have often said I see the need for firearms in rural areas. It would be nice to think you dont need guns in Cities, but we seem to manage without just fine over here.

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces.

ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces.

ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first?

No gang association felony and yes, he has to commit a crime. Gang associations are compiled by law enforcement. With adequate resources they could probably do a whole lot more with them.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic.



I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you.
Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes, exactly that with semi automatics. I have often said I see the need for firearms in rural areas. It would be nice to think you dont need guns in Cities, but we seem to manage without just fine over here.

Ok, so you you guys manage fine which is fine. What are you suggesting then, in the US we shouldn't have any guns in the cities or we shouldn't have semi autos in the cities ? Is it ok to have semi autos in the more rural areas ?

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic.



I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you.
Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Of course they questioned him, they said this in one of the links, and he denied to have been part of the shooting, than confessed the day after.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic.



I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you.
Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Lmfao........ yes I meant the police didnt question him...... No way did I mean more questions to answer in the general sense of the phrase.

We didnt see the guy get killed either, care to suggest that didnt happen as well ?

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces.

ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first?

No gang association felony and yes, he has to commit a crime. Gang associations are compiled by law enforcement. With adequate resources they could probably do a whole lot more with them.

I was asking because in italy just being part of an association alike mafia (a criminal association that use intimidation or violence to control a territory) is worth from 3 to 5 years prison.