RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive/slave, and loved it?

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/10/2013 1:54:05 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I too disagree.

I do not think it is hard to figure out what is or isn't rape.
Des said it well.

The courts would disagree with you.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/10/2013 3:10:12 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Sorry Jeff, I can't agree, The way you worded this as a rapist who backhands the victim when she's yelling for the police is just being dominant.
Consent is the dividing line. Not "she was asking for it by dressing like a slut." Or "she invited me in for coffee so she really did want sex and was just being coy".

Allow me to clarify. There are plenty of cases where consent is pretty clear-cut. All of the ones you listed are in that category. There are also plenty of cases where it is not. So I agree, if you've got a clear bead on "consent" then it's a quick shot to "rape" or "not rape". But getting that clear bead on consent is tricky since consent is an internal mental state with zero outward visible evidence.

So let me ask you a question. Woman goes home with man. Woman doesn't want to go home with man but feels "pressured" to. There was never any clear evidence of this but there were "warning signs". She just felt "pressured". Night of sex turns out not so good and the next morning she has great regrets. Is that rape?

You cannot seriously believe that topics like "consent" and "free will" are simple or easy. Philosophers have been struggling with them forever.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/10/2013 7:24:12 PM

Lisfor

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Because you used the quotation marks, I assume you mean "forced, but not really", like you are just fooling yourself to think you have no choice? Like being "forced" to stay with your wife because you don't want to pay for divorce and do your own cooking and laundry, or "forced" to stay with your parents because you don't want to get a job and support yourself?

It's all about how you think about it, at the end of the day!

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/12/2013 6:43:28 PM

obedientnwilling

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Hmm, the closest I've come to that is having some boundary issues early on with my master. Eventually, 1) he backed off and accepted my boundary, and 2) I eventually became so acclimated to being a sub that the boundary sort of eroded over time anyway. But no, I don't think that I've ever genuinely held against my will except by my parents.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/12/2013 7:07:59 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling
Hey, I see some people taking this a little too literally.

Why wouldn't I take things "literally"?? This is a text communication medium over which a ton of people are discussing some truly whacky things. I'd much prefer to just assume they meant what they said than try to interpret that whackiness which will almost certainly be wrong.

Truth is, that word "force" has a lot of depth to it. Based on the quotes around the word "force" I think we can assume the poster isn't talking about the illegal variants. So that pretty much leaves two alternatives. Force as in dominance->submission and force as in "fantasy scene". The OP specifically stated:

And by "forced" I mean against your will, but you couldn't find a way to escape your circumstance so you dealt with it and eventually grew to love it?

So I opted for "force" as in "D/s". Although in truth it was never "against Carol's will". It was simply an inescapable conclusion of us getting married. There have been times when I didn't want to own her but I don't think Carol could muster the will to "not want to be as perfect as possible for the guy she loves". The whole D/s thing though caught us both by surprise and in an odd sort of way the question of "consent" doesn't really matter at least at the level of our dynamic. "Consent" is formed by the very structure of the relationship itself. We are stuck with who we are. Love matters a whole lot though.

Carol did not like it in the beginning... enough to terrify the crap out of her... enough for me to make my first serious effort at releasing her. Because of the way I want to control her she was, quite reasonably, worried about losing her "self". I don't know that she ever came to like it exactly, but she became more comfortable with the demands the word "property" put on her and I know she won't consent to being released.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/12/2013 11:45:38 PM

crazyml

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FR...

There are some parallels between this thread and another - "Have you ever wanted your Dom to take you past your limit?" (apologies for the lack of an actual link - I'm inept).

Of course "consent" is the cornerstone, and "crossing limits" can be a far far cry from taking someone and enslaving them, but... there have been situations where a dom can cross a limit and the resultant "thang" turns out to be awesome for both parties. There have also been plenty of situations where a dom has crossed a limit and the result has been a whole bag of "unpleasant" for both parties.

To the OP... lots of people have "force" fantasies, indeed rape fantasies are not uncommon - But you want to cross these boundaries you've got to consider the potential consequences of your actions, one of which is jail time.

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Post #: 46

RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 5:45:38 AM

obedientnwilling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling
Hey, I see some people taking this a little too literally.

Why wouldn't I take things "literally"??

Because the writer of the OP was obviously just curious and inexperienced at BDSM.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 12:16:30 PM

Arturas

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quote:

And by "forced" I mean against your will,

You might think at first blush this is cut and dry. "Against your will". But we are talking to submissives here and so "Against your will" is what some experience and even look forward to when being launched into sub-space. Also, since you put quotes around "forced" in the OP title then I am not taking too much of a liberty, if at all, in interpreting this in the "forced" that happens in normal Dom/submissive playtime. Here's where it can get sticky, with the new pairing. I must admit, that I have "forced" a new girl to be "submissive" and I suspect other Doms have also in their long experience and it worked for both Dom and submissive because the Dom can read the submissive and the submissive was actually happy with the experience. I also must admit in looking back that if I had read them wrong then I would have ended up in some legal entanglement. But, knowing what I know and although I don't encourage just any man trying to Dom a woman to "force" her into submission, I would not change a thing and I do know they would not either.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 11/13/2013 12:21:16 PM >

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 12:36:30 PM

Arturas

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quote:

My answer to the OP is that the reason everything is done in BD/SM with consent is because to do anything else is basically a violation of the one basic right we all have, to decide what we want for ourselves, our freedom, and takes that away.

Inevitably yes. The safe word is a safety blanket to the Dom who is "forcing" a submissive to do anything since it's use will retain her rights. In retrospect, I do believe I gave every submissive I "forced" a safe word and their refusal to use it allowed them to be "forced". But even with a safe word a Dom must be able to read the submissive accurately as to if they are resisting for real or it is Memorex. I think that chance we are taking in those circumstances intensifies the Dom-space we enjoy and some of us like to be into the scene just as much as the submissive even if it is impromptu in a dark alley. Very dark, yes.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 11/13/2013 12:40:05 PM >

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 12:43:20 PM

servile2004

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As a slave, i consider my freedom to be forfeit.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 12:58:06 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling
Hey, I see some people taking this a little too literally.

Why wouldn't I take things "literally"??

Because the writer of the OP was obviously just curious and inexperienced at BDSM.

How do you know? You only know what a stranger has written on the internet.

There was a guy in LA that used our chatroom as a way to learn more about D/s and BDSM...because he had figured out that someone involved in kink was less likely to go to the police. He talked a lot about rape fantasies. Guess what? He was a rapist out on parole, raped 8 women in 6 months and was on his third strike. (And he was correct, most of the women had to be convinced to testify against him because they knew someone would hold their kink against them)

So, when someone starts talking about illegal acts like the OP did....we err on the side of caution because all we have to go on is ether and internet.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 1:27:23 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

So let me ask you a question. Woman goes home with man. Woman doesn't want to go home with man but feels "pressured" to. There was never any clear evidence of this but there were "warning signs". She just felt "pressured". Night of sex turns out not so good and the next morning she has great regrets. Is that rape?

Insufficient data. What do you mean by forced? More importantly, how did she feel about it? Did she feel she was unsafe with him if she did not stop objecting? What did he say and do to make her feel coerced?

Since the situation you posit is alien to my experience, I really cannot comment on as is.

The fact that she did or did not orgasm is immaterial. Despite what Republicans say, the presence of an orgasm does not mean the woman wanted it. Irritate a mucus membrane enough and it will spasm. If I throw pepper up your nose you will sneeze, but that doesn't mean you have an upper respiratory virus.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 1:29:18 PM

obedientnwilling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

How do you know?

His tone came across to me as that of a naive and curious teenager. He might have even been underage to even be on this site.

quote:

There was a guy in LA that used our chatroom as a way to learn more about D/s and BDSM...because he had figured out that someone involved in kink was less likely to go to the police. He talked a lot about rape fantasies. Guess what? He was a rapist out on parole, raped 8 women in 6 months and was on his third strike. (And he was correct, most of the women had to be convinced to testify against him because they knew someone would hold their kink against them)

So, when someone starts talking about illegal acts like the OP did....we err on the side of caution because all we have to go on is ether and internet.

He made two posts here, unless I missed some. One of them was a brief, naive question. The second was some whining about how people were reacting.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 1:38:56 PM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

How do you know?
His tone came across to me as that of a naive and curious teenager. He might have even been underage to even be on this site.

Amazing how you deduct all that from the two posts of him you've read.

Would you like a summary of everything we can deduct (in)correctly about you based on your posts, profile and pictures?

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 1:53:36 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: obedientnwilling

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

How do you know?
His tone came across to me as that of a naive and curious teenager. He might have even been underage to even be on this site.

Amazing how you deduct all that from the two posts of him you've read.

Not to mention deduct that from black words on a white screen.

quote:

Would you like a summary of everything we can deduct (in)correctly about you based on your posts, profile and pictures?

I doubt she'd like what I've deduced from her posts.

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 2:26:24 PM

obedientnwilling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Would you like a summary of everything we can deduct (in)correctly about you based on your posts, profile and pictures?

If you'd like to tell me I'm a mentally unbalanced freak, I already know. Emotionally immature? Still not telling me anything new: I have the mentality of a teenager. Let's hear all slurs you can think of against my character, and I'll give you a run-down of which ones are accurate and which ones are off-the-mark.

< Message edited by obedientnwilling -- 11/13/2013 2:30:48 PM >

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RE: Were you ever "forced" to be a submissive... - 11/13/2013 2:41:25 PM

obedientnwilling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Amazing how you deduct all that from the two posts of him you've read.

I seem to have miscommunicated. I didn't mean to disparage your views. I was simply sharing my own. Based on my experience with people, that is the impression that I get off of his posts. I acknowledge that your experiences are different, and I acknowledge that your perceptions are valid.