RE: Iran (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:02:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I think we are all going to wake up one morning in the next year to the news that they have successfully tested a bomb in Israel.



Why would the Israeli's do that? Everybody already knows they have them, built on proven designs that are already tested by the US.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:04:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Why would the Israeli's do that? Everybody already knows they have them, built on proven designs that are already tested by the US.

I think he's talking about Iran.




truckinslave -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:06:14 AM)

Yes. Thanks.

A semi-humorous remark about the possibility of Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.




TheHeretic -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:08:37 AM)

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

And how are the Iranians going to deliver this hypothetical bomb? Federal Express?




truckinslave -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:14:27 AM)

Ship. Ship of the desert. Missile.

Why do you think Israel staunchly defends their right to search ships to Palestine?




RottenJohnny -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:14:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Yes. Thanks.

A semi-humorous remark about the possibility of Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.

YW. Sorry for jumping in. No disrespect intended. But to be honest, I also worry that's how we might find out they've actually got a bomb.




tj444 -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:24:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, I think they're negotiating for 2 reasons.

1. To buy time for their research efforts to come to fruition.

2. To attempt to drive a small wedge between us and Israel.

You don't suppose sanctions have had a devastating effect on their economy and the mullahs are in fear of internal discontent?

The sanctions have only made the Mullahs more powerful by showing how evil the west is to make the people suffer and then they have martyrs lined up.

Happy, well fed people don't make good martyrs.

My personal opinion is that the sanctions, especially regarding banking, has cut their income in about half (from what I have read).. and is a major reason why they are even bothering to "talk" to the "West".. and by "West", that means mostly the US.. which has shown itself to be untrustworthy (spying, history of meddling & illegal attacks, etc) so if the "West" doesn't trust Iran,.. then why would anyone expect Iran to trust the US?.. even US allies & neutral countries no longer trust the US.. and any "friendly" mid-east countries too.. and some are making moves/plans to reduce US influence in their country.. At this point, no country/govt can be "trusted".. jmo..

Also, if the US dollar is eventually eased out/ousted as the world's reserve currency, then that cuts US influence off at its knees.. and countries are working to do that (that's part of the reason for the euro)..

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248 Why the Dollar's Reign Is Near an End




truckinslave -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:24:54 AM)

quote:

No disrespect intended.


Seriously- thanks.
I don't see how anyone could have seen "disrespect" in your comment; certainly I didn't.




TheHeretic -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:30:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Ship. Ship of the desert. Missile.

Why do you think Israel staunchly defends their right to search ships to Palestine?



Exactly. And it's why they maintain air defenses like no place else on the planet.

It wouldn't be the risk of sparking a full out nuclear war that would keep Iran from launching their very first bomb in a sneak attack at Israel, but the high risk of failure.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 9:55:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

No disrespect intended.


Seriously- thanks.
I don't see how anyone could have seen "disrespect" in your comment; certainly I didn't.

Just being polite.




RottenJohnny -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 10:02:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Exactly. And it's why they maintain air defenses like no place else on the planet.

It could come into the West Bank or Gaza in pieces and get assembled later. Even if it exploded in some underground tunnel it would be bad enough.




kdsub -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 10:05:10 AM)

Myself I see nothing to lose... Right now it is too late to stop their atomic production and a bomb attack next year will be no less effective than one tomorrow. So... the talks in my opinion are not to stop bomb production but to show the world we tried to avoid a confrontation and reduce the political fallout when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell...And hope for the best .

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now.

Butch




truckinslave -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 11:06:14 AM)

quote:

when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell..


The first chance for that is 1/20/2017.




truckinslave -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 11:07:21 AM)

quote:

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now


No.
Our best chance was to deny them access to nuclear energy.




vincentML -> RE: Iran (11/10/2013 11:15:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Myself I see nothing to lose... Right now it is too late to stop their atomic production and a bomb attack next year will be no less effective than one tomorrow. So... the talks in my opinion are not to stop bomb production but to show the world we tried to avoid a confrontation and reduce the political fallout when we and Israel do our best to bomb their abilities to hell...And hope for the best .

Our best bet to stop this would have been to take their ability out 5 years ago... but too late now.

Butch

How quickly we forget the propaganda ground out during the run up to our attack on Iraq[:-]




Phydeaux -> RE: Iran (11/11/2013 6:45:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, I think they're negotiating for 2 reasons.

1. To buy time for their research efforts to come to fruition.

2. To attempt to drive a small wedge between us and Israel.

You don't suppose sanctions have had a devastating effect on their economy and the mullahs are in fear of internal discontent?

The sanctions have only made the Mullahs more powerful by showing how evil the west is to make the people suffer and then they have martyrs lined up.

Happy, well fed people don't make good martyrs.

My personal opinion is that the sanctions, especially regarding banking, has cut their income in about half (from what I have read).. and is a major reason why they are even bothering to "talk" to the "West".. and by "West", that means mostly the US.. which has shown itself to be untrustworthy (spying, history of meddling & illegal attacks, etc) so if the "West" doesn't trust Iran,.. then why would anyone expect Iran to trust the US?.. even US allies & neutral countries no longer trust the US.. and any "friendly" mid-east countries too.. and some are making moves/plans to reduce US influence in their country.. At this point, no country/govt can be "trusted".. jmo..

Also, if the US dollar is eventually eased out/ousted as the world's reserve currency, then that cuts US influence off at its knees.. and countries are working to do that (that's part of the reason for the euro)..

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248 Why the Dollar's Reign Is Near an End


Yeah. Which is why I was opposed to the US promoting the eurozone. I was opposed to the IMF bailing out the Eurozone.
I was opposed to US making good on $192 billion payout via AIG.

Why we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot is beyond me.





Zonie63 -> RE: Iran (11/11/2013 6:58:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What are your thoughts on the negotiations with Iran?

I think they are playing the West, and we are all going to wake up one morning in the next year to the news that they have successfully tested a bomb.


Iran has been playing the West since at least 1979. Heck, one can say the entire Middle East has been playing the West since long before then, mainly due to our insatiable thirst for oil and our irrational religious sentimentality regarding the so-called "Holy Land."

They have us pegged and they know how to play the West. They knew how to do that during the hostage crisis from 1979-81, and they knew even better when they persuaded our government to trade arms for hostages so they could get money to fight communists in Nicaragua. During the 1980s, our government was far more caught up in battling the "Evil Empire," which led to a lot of strange bedfellows in the Middle East - a very complicated mess which we're still dealing with today.

We wanted to keep the Soviets out, keep the oil flowing, and protect the Holy Land all at the same time - three objectives we've managed to maintain and balance, albeit shakily. Even though we don't have to worry about the Soviets anymore, the Russians are still potential major players in the region.

We put ourselves into this box, so we have no other viable choice other than to try to talk our way out. We had to talk to the Soviets when they got the bomb, as well as to the Chinese. We thought it would spell the end of the world - and it might still come to that someday. Even nations like India and Pakistan have nuclear capability. We might be able to delay Iranian nuclear development, but I don't think we can stop it in the long run.

Iran may be playing the West, but we've made it easy for them to do that. The West has been playing itself for far too long. However, I think that negotiating with Iran and trying to reach some diplomatic solution is, at the very least, the practical obligatory move at this point. We always have to try to negotiate first before we take it to the next level - if it even comes to that. Other than that, we can try to throw money at the opposition groups and try to destabilize the regime; a little less risky to ourselves than openly attacking them, but possibly more dangerous in the long run if we back the wrong faction - something we've done before in Iran and in other countries.

At this point, we don't trust them, and they don't trust us. Negotiations might seem like an exercise in futility, but we don't have many practical options right now. We're not in as strong a position as we once were in the world, so we may need to play it closer to the vest for a while.





vincentML -> RE: Iran (11/11/2013 1:10:13 PM)

quote:

Yeah. Which is why I was opposed to the US promoting the eurozone. I was opposed to the IMF bailing out the Eurozone.
I was opposed to US making good on $192 billion payout via AIG.

Why we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot is beyond me.

Maybe because the EU is a major destination for our exports. Would have continued the cascade of economic disaster late in '08.

Not too sympathetic to AIG so would agree with you except so many major banks were holding AIG insurance promises on Mortgage bundle debts letting them sink would have contributed to the cascade of disaster. Too big to fail. Doncha hate it?[:'(]




vincentML -> RE: Iran (11/11/2013 1:17:09 PM)

quote:

At this point, we don't trust them, and they don't trust us. Negotiations might seem like an exercise in futility, but we don't have many practical options right now. We're not in as strong a position as we once were in the world, so we may need to play it closer to the vest for a while.

Why should they trust us? We overthrew their democratic government and imposed a Shah and his terror police.

Additionally, one has to wonder how Americans would react if a group of nations demanded we cease building some part of our infrastructure and imposed financial and trade sanctions on us that caused us spiraling inflation. We would be freakin outraged and defiant I think!




TheHeretic -> RE: Iran (11/11/2013 1:55:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Additionally, one has to wonder how Americans would react if a group of nations demanded we cease building some part of our infrastructure and imposed financial and trade sanctions on us that caused us spiraling inflation. We would be freakin outraged and defiant I think!



Like say, a global warming treaty? [8|]

Maybe Tehran will get that big earthquake they say is coming, and give them something else to focus on for a while, but with or without talking, I think they are going to have their bomb soon enough.





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