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submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:03:45 AM

zushi

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/23/2013
Status: offline

In my normal life I'm a proud, intelligent, confident and strong-willed woman.

However, in private with my partner I am submissive and with patience he taught me to accept this role... I can be pretty stubborn.
I need to be reminded constantly of my position. I was taught to accept collar and leash so he can train me - I struggled a lot but finally accepted these tools for my obedience training. I'm doing more or less progress... Basic positions and commandos like: sit, heel, down, as well as walking on a leash is working fine.

The problem is, I need more (different?) training to deepen my submission. I was given the task to figure out new techniques that help me to find my way to obedience.

Does anyone have experience with strong-willed women and how to get rid of the last reluctance to completely submit?
Any help and ideas are appreciated...

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:11:56 AM

Posts: 208
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline

Do you want to submit? You do have a choice, you know ...

Spy

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:13:42 AM

LittleGirlHeart

Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

i take it as you either want to or you don't. do or do not. Kinda ironic since i want to have a dominant but i will fight tooth and nail till they show me they are a capable dominant.

_____________________________

We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to SpyUnderCover)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:14:33 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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Serious question: why do you want to submit to him? What is it about submitting that appeals to you? What makes it worthwhile? How does it make your life better?

I don't know of any techniques which will make you more willing to submit, other than good old fashioned 'talk about it' and 'give it time'.

There are folks that believe you either are submissive or you're not. I've struggled too in the past, and in my case it really was just a case of needing time to get used to who I was and what made me happy. I just wasn't mature enough to be comfortable with myself.

If you can answer my first set of questions, you're more than half way there. Beyond that, it really depends on exactly what the problems are that you are having.

Some things to consider (you can answer these here or keep them to yourself, but think about them):

- Is this something I actually want, or am I doing it just for him?
- If I am doing it just for him, am I getting enough of what I need to stay happy in the relationship?
- Are the things he's asking of me too restrictive or unrealistic for our lifestyle?
- Are we moving too fast?
- Have we really talked about this and understand each other's needs? Are we working as a team, 100%?
- What does 'deeper into submission' mean? How will that make our lives better?
- Why am I not obeying? Are there things I don't understand? Is something making me unhappy? Do I feel silly? Do I just need some help to remember things?

I can't suggest techniques because I don't know what submission means to the two of you, or what isn't working. In my relationship I've never once needed to know basic positions or walk on a leash, so it's not as simple as 'stage 2 of submission training, do X Y and Z'.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:40:09 AM

zushi

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/23/2013
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Thank you for the replies so far...

Yes, I enjoy this part of our life, because this is one area where I don't have to take the lead.
However, this doesn't mean, that I'm very good at it... That's why I have to search for techniques that help me.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:46:08 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
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Sure. But once again, what exactly are the problems you are having? Are you forgetting rules? Are you answering back to him? Are you struggling to find the time to do all of the tasks? Do you find it's easy to submit when you're horny and frustrating during the rest of your time?

In order to suggest things to try, we really need to know what type of thing you are trying to achieve, and what you have tried so far.

Tell us :

- What would things look like if it was going perfectly? How would your day work? Would he decide every tiny action, or give you broad rules? Would you spend your day naked in the kitchen, or would you look like a regular couple where the man has the final say? Are you hoping to learn some specific kinky skill?

- What is going wrong?

- What have the two of you tried so far to fix it?

I could tell you to recite an affirmation every morning about how good it feels to serve. But if the problem is that you can't remember his 47000 rules about which direction to point your toes when greeting him, it won't help.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 10:47:01 AM

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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When my relationship is otherwise fulfilling, submission and obedience come naturally to me. However, when I was new to BDSM, some of the non-fiction from the booklist helped me with other issues: http://www.collarchat.com/m_1726118/tm.htm

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 11:17:03 AM

Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

I don't consider positions and sitting on command to be submission. Those are usually things that come from fantasy or too much porn.

A few thoughts: I always say that submission is easy when it's the things you want to do. But real submission happens when you get to the things you don't like or don't want...and you do them anyway.

At times when I felt that I was about to rebel, I would excuse myself and take a few private moments to remind myself that this is the power structure I agreed to.

And until you figure out where this resistance is coming from and deal with it....you most likely won't succeed at submitting. (It's not because you're stubborn or proud)

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 11:27:40 AM

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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My hardest act of submission was weeding the sidewalk cracks at a yoga retreat center one August when I was a volunteer there. I was really struggling with hating the task until a guest leaned down, put her hand on my shoulder, and whispered, "Thank you," which transformed my relationship with the weeds.

OP, perhaps some volunteer work would be useful for your journey.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 11:31:46 AM

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

Yes I have experience with strong-willed women and it takes a paradigm shift on your part. If your Master is experienced and familiar with this, he can provide the education, but you are the one that has to learn to change your perspectives. This book should be helpful:

The Surrendered Wife : A Practical Guide to Finding Intimacy, Passion, and Peace with Your Man
by Laura Doyle
Surrendering is coming to terms with reality--that YOU are the only one YOU can change. Doyle gives practical tips and tools for replacing critical, controlling, or nagging behaviors with respect, trust and gratitude. A surrendered wife bravely and courageously commits to making a loving, nurturing marriage the most important goal of all -- and she will receive that and so much more. This book is easy to read, practical, and best of all it WORKS!

There are many other books about submission and sLavecraft that are also very good. Take a look at the -=BDSM Book List=- link in my sig.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 11:36:25 AM

Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

I can honestly say that it took time and proof for me.

I'm an alpha personality and for me to let go, I needed to know that he was someone that I could trust with all that responsibility. It wasn't an overnight thing. It was not a one sided thing. It was his constancy combined with my desire to change my drive to control everything, that finally worked.

(And honestly, it seemed like some of the smallest stuff was the hardest to let go)

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 1:04:09 PM

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

You've gotten some great answers so far!

I would add that youth can be an obstacle to full submission. If you are still learning to be independent: manage money, feeling fulfilled in a career and living on your own terms, then these growth experiences may be at odds with the ability to hand power over. I think too many people skip the steps to independence - and that goes both ways.

It is often said that submission is not the same as being a dependent person. Submission happens when an independent person chooses to become dependent upon the authority of another.

A dominant is not a person who seeks to control a lesser being - that's a control freak who has trust issues. A dominant chooses to accept responsibility for the welfare of another.

_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
sub - TwoHeartsBeatOne
Domme - Lady Q

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 1:18:18 PM

Posts: 128
Joined: 11/17/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zushi

In my normal life I'm a proud, intelligent, confident and strong-willed woman.

However, in private with my partner I am submissive and with patience he taught me to accept this role... I can be pretty stubborn.
I need to be reminded constantly of my position. I was taught to accept collar and leash so he can train me - I struggled a lot but finally accepted these tools for my obedience training. I'm doing more or less progress... Basic positions and commandos like: sit, heel, down, as well as walking on a leash is working fine.

The problem is, I need more (different?) training to deepen my submission. I was given the task to figure out new techniques that help me to find my way to obedience.

Does anyone have experience with strong-willed women and how to get rid of the last reluctance to completely submit?
Any help and ideas are appreciated...

you want to be something different than you are?

i am the same, strong-willed... but not at all argumentative. assertive.... in a calm way. and i never back down from something i believe is right... but completely open to suggestion on all other topics. this sort of middle ground came from what started as a rambunctious little creature that would sooner tear you limb from limb than take a knee. sure i was impulsive but older me admires that and when i see someone who wants to deny who they naturally are all i can think is... why?

it is possible to control someone like me... but no dom i've had has ever managed, and it took years of refusing against anything that that was my "natural place" as i had been raised to believe to come to realize that i would much rather be alone than belong to anyone but myself.

so i have this to say: you 'want' to be more submissive for someone else. you are asking a forum how you can be more submissive for someone else.... obviously you are already there. "the first step is acceptance".... you actually want to change yourself for someone else, i dont see how you could possibly do a better job at serving someone else than that.... doing things without speaking first, that comes with time, not questioning anything, time.... and if you want that.... than you are already on the path.

(in reply to zushi)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 1:55:45 PM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I required for him to show me that he merited my trust. That meant that he had to explain his reasoning enough for me to realize he did almost always make the best possible decision. He had to show me over time that he was a man of integrity and honor. He had to prove that he took my well being into account, and didn't just decide to do stuff that he wanted without caring how it impacted me.

Collar and leash are just fun stuff here. Allowing him to drag you to a doctor, kicking and screaming, takes more trust. As does him taking control of money matters.

Are you just talking about humiliation play? Because that works for some and doesn't for others. It doesn't mean I'm not a true sub because it leaves me cold.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to directiveerror)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 2:47:40 PM

Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Yes I have experience with strong-willed women and it takes a paradigm shift on your part. If your Master is experienced and familiar with this, he can provide the education, but you are the one that has to learn to change your perspectives. This book should be helpful:

The Surrendered Wife : A Practical Guide to Finding Intimacy, Passion, and Peace with Your Man
by Laura Doyle
Surrendering is coming to terms with reality--that YOU are the only one YOU can change. Doyle gives practical tips and tools for replacing critical, controlling, or nagging behaviors with respect, trust and gratitude. A surrendered wife bravely and courageously commits to making a loving, nurturing marriage the most important goal of all -- and she will receive that and so much more. This book is easy to read, practical, and best of all it WORKS!

There are many other books about submission and sLavecraft that are also very good. Take a look at the -=BDSM Book List=- link in my sig.

Seriously? We're recommending sexism now? I love submission, but I'd rather never submit again than follow the advice of anti-feminist claptrap like Ms Doyle. Just sayin'

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 2:49:00 PM

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Joined: 9/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I don't consider positions and sitting on command to be submission.

If she's doing them because her Dom tells her to, then they definitely ARE submission, whether you consider them to be or not.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 2:51:37 PM

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Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

OP - I see (from my point of view) that you have a common newbie mistake - and I have no idea how old you are or if you really are new to this stuff.

You equate submission with something that you can pick up with education or "training". There is no HR where you can get training. You either are or are not submissive.

I was in a 24/7 relationship, and while it took about 6 months for me to get used to "letting him have his way", it wasn't training that allowed me to submit, it was realizing that if I wanted this relationship to work, I had to do it his way, wheither I wanted to or not. He wasn't about to cave to me.
You know, submission isn't an act, its a state of mind. If you have that state of mind, then you'll do fine. As for deepening your submission, perhaps you need to step back and think about what that really means to you. I really don't think there are any techniques that can MAKE you more submissive. As for running around in a collar and leash, that doesn't make you submissive - it hopefully is something that you and your partner enjoy.

What is your desired endpoint? What do you want to be at the end of the day? I had no expectation - I just wanted him to be please with me. It was enough for me to follow his rules and be happy. What is it that you want or need?

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 2:53:03 PM

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Joined: 11/17/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Yes I have experience with strong-willed women and it takes a paradigm shift on your part. If your Master is experienced and familiar with this, he can provide the education, but you are the one that has to learn to change your perspectives. This book should be helpful:

The Surrendered Wife : A Practical Guide to Finding Intimacy, Passion, and Peace with Your Man
by Laura Doyle
Surrendering is coming to terms with reality--that YOU are the only one YOU can change. Doyle gives practical tips and tools for replacing critical, controlling, or nagging behaviors with respect, trust and gratitude. A surrendered wife bravely and courageously commits to making a loving, nurturing marriage the most important goal of all -- and she will receive that and so much more. This book is easy to read, practical, and best of all it WORKS!

There are many other books about submission and sLavecraft that are also very good. Take a look at the -=BDSM Book List=- link in my sig.

Seriously? We're recommending sexism now? I love submission, but I'd rather never submit again than follow the advice of anti-feminist claptrap like Ms Doyle. Just sayin'

that made me smile

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 4:35:24 PM

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Joined: 4/4/2013
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This question is like asking, how do I find out who I am?

In any relationship the single most defining factor is going to be communication with your Master. You cannot find submission on your own. We are social people and love brings happiness like no other psychological need. If you want to find submission then I think that the first question is why do I want love?

Like stabbing yourself in the hand on your own in a dark room is not submission that is just pain. Sucking cock is submission.

I think that every woman that I have been with in the bedroom thinks of herself as strong willed. To me it is a defence mechanism. I like that song 'Breaking the Girl' by Red Hot Chili Peppers because to me that is kind of what it is like.

(in reply to directiveerror)

RE: submission training for a proud woman - 11/23/2013 4:44:36 PM

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Joined: 11/17/2013
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quote:

To me it is a defence mechanism.

let me ask you this: if someone is going to kill someone are they more likely to do so if that person says "no fuck you i'm not doing what you ask" or if they smile and say "it's all right, theres no need for that i'm here for whatever you need"(of course there are more options than just those 2 responces but i will leave it there for the sake of example)

submission is the self defense mechanism if anything, assertiveness comes from a sense of safety and belief in yourself and your knowledge of your surroundings. no one ever got off easier for being head strong, that is a choice you make in spite of people not because of them.

(in reply to AaNiMaLl)

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