RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:17:26 PM

EdBowie

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Notice also that the 'you shall surely die' also turned out to be an empty threat... (much like the "Attention all institutions and persons...' warning here on CM...

)

Did Adam and Even even know what 'die' meant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

Exactly. When you first tell a child not to touch a hot stove. They know you don't want them to touch it. But until they get burned by it they don't understand WHY you don't want them to touch it. That's what happened in the creation story. They didn't understand why until after they were burned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That is what god said (it is written) and that imparts knowledge, but not the knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil, however you want it.

They knew they disobeyed their creator. Just as a child knows they disobey their parents. And it would be large assumption to attribute the couple to adulthood, or to childhood. Now as it happened in the account, he said that to Adam before Eve was created. But later talking to the serpent she repeated god's admonition above ....

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:31:20 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
I am not telling you what I think. This is what the Bible says.

Genesis 3:6- "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was pleasant to the eye and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof."

The BIBLE (not me) says she thought it was a good thing.

Actually you are telling me what you think, you think because she said it was a good thing, it was a good thing, the
Bible does not say it was a good thing but only that she said it was a good thing.

Also you might ask yourself what did she think of it before Satan talked to her, what made her change her mind about it?

If a con man convinces you that you just bought a $1500 ring from him for $20, you may think it's a good thing too but you're not going to think that for long, when it starts to turn your finger green.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:32:55 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31
so was is it a sin or a fault to seek knowledge based on christanity

quote:

Instead, test everything. Hold on to what is good.
Thessalonians 5:21

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:35:15 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
But the first time we saw a stove someone had to teach us what it was and how dangerous it could be. If you met a full grown person today who had never seen a stove before he would have no knowledge of what it is or the dangers that it could present. That has to be taught. "Full grown" is a lot more than size. It is also the amount of knowledge and wisdom you have learned.

And that is why God taught them and that is another thing, do you really think God is incapable of teaching his children properly?

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:41:00 PM

mnottertail

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Also you might ask yourself what did she think of it before Satan talked to her, what made her change her mind about it?

*****************

There is no reason to read anything into it or ask motivations so far behind the curve, it will not profit. What ifs are what ifs, if we are to believe this as truth (I personally do not).

The serpent beguiled her, and she did eat. End of convo. And here we are accordingly.

God must be incapable of teaching his children properly, as so many fuck up.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:41:43 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie
Notice also that the 'you shall surely die' also turned out to be an empty threat... (much like the "Attention all institutions and persons...' warning here on CM... )

Empty threat? How is that? Have you talked to Adam and Eve lately?

quote:

Did Adam and Even even know what 'die' meant?

Although Mankind was meant to live forever, the animals around them died so yes they had seen death.

Also again God being God is a perfect teacher and thus would be able to perfectly teach Adam and Eve what die meant.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:48:17 PM

mnottertail

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I do not know that there is veracity in there seeing animals die, since it was not mentioned. It would have to be assumed, as their adulthood, as their so many things.

The real answer is that the ice giant Ymir had the blood eagle drawn on him and his skull the heavens and his guts the earth.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:50:13 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
There is no reason to read anything into it or ask motivations so far behind the curve, it will not profit. What ifs are what ifs, if we are to believe this as truth (I personally do not).

I never said it was the truth but I get tired of people like you who dismiss the whole thing out hand with even trying to understand the other side.

quote:

The serpent beguiled her, and she did eat. End of convo. And here we are accordingly.

Well, you got one right.

quote:

God must be incapable of teaching his children properly, as so many fuck up.

A father can teach his children properly but that does not mean that all of them will do what is right.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:52:51 PM

mnottertail

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Well I get tired of people like you that have an opinion on the matter so overfreely shared and pedantically so, treating it as if there is a morsel of truth in the whole thing. And you assume I am less conversant in the matter than you, which I assure you is not the case.

I can pronounce any number of vacuous jingos. This is Politics (and religion), afterall.

Small boats should stay close to shore.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/8/2014 4:56:37 PM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:57:27 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I do not know that there is veracity in there seeing animals die, since it was not mentioned. It would have to be assumed, as their adulthood, as their so many things.

Animals have all sorts of life spans, some long, some very short. It would be hard to live out doors for very long with having seen death.

quote:

The real answer is that the ice giant Ymir had the blood eagle drawn on him and his skull the heavens and his guts the earth.

Seeing as the OP asked "based on Christianity" your belief in "the ice giant Ymir" doesn't seem to go with that.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 4:59:46 PM

mnottertail

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Ah, but in those halcyon days of yore (and it is also mouthed that after the second coming) nobody or no thing had tasted death. The animals were not given until after the fruit. You can only with your earthly logic conceive that there were lifespans, and that is not the word of your god.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:01:50 PM

playfulotter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?is knowledge power? is knowledge something we seek? is knowledge something we strive to improve in everyday life? is knowledge the root of evil? why do people want to know more? how does knowledge relate to religion? does knowledge begin in religion? what does your religion say about knowledge?

of some one wants to chat i'd welcome comments i urge you to voice your opinion on the subject.

i got into the conversation with a friend the other day and we stayed up for two days talking about the subject and came up empty its a very confusing topic and i want serious responses only. how do you feel what are your opinions

I never thought that the main focus of any religion had anything to do with "knowledge"... Even though a lot of things written in various religious documents are intelligent.......I thought the main focus of religion was believing in that religion's beliefs or something bad would happen to you......Heck, wasn't a lot of knowledge stopped from getting to the masses the whole time religion was so strong in certain eras in history...I think but for religion people wouldn't have believed a lot of silly things like the earth being flat and such...but this is only my humble opinion. I think civilization would be better now but for religion...I know I have an incomplete history and as I said just my opinion.

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 1/8/2014 5:15:48 PM >

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:08:17 PM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
Seeing as the OP asked "based on Christianity" your belief in "the ice giant Ymir" doesn't seem to go with that.

Seeing as how that isn't what the OP said in the OP and later said:

lets base this disscusion on christanity if we can.

Since nothing you have said is actually based in christianity, I have no compelling reason to base anything I say on that particular fairy tale, so the short answer appears to be: We can't.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:10:41 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well I get tired of people like you that have an opinion on the matter so overfreely shared and pedantically so, treating it as if there is a morsel of truth in the whole thing.

If there is a Christian God, I have said nothing that is inconsistent with that premise.

As for "overfreely shared and pedantically", it is typical of small minds to engage in ad hominem attacks when they fail to make any coherent arguments.

quote:

And you assume I am less conversant in the matter than you, which I assure you is not the case.

Really? Please share, stop holding back.

I can pronounce any number of vacuous jingos. This is Politics (and religion), afterall.And you do it so well.

quote:

Small boats should stay close to shore.

Good counsel you should take to heart.

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:15:08 PM

mnottertail

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Well, since there is no christian god, and you have said that animals died before god commanded death, you would be horrifically inconsistent.

Other than that, you argue suppositions not in accordance with 'the word of god' (which should be perfect, n'est ce pas?)

So, yeah, but no. In fact do not go close to water.

What ad hominem was made that was not by you?

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:16:34 PM

mnottertail

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And as to your other dare, fine lets test your sinful knowledge.

Why did Jesus kill the fig tree?

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:17:12 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

which came first religion or knowledge?

I see religion as being invented to control people & their behavior, before there was the plethora of laws we have today.. I see religion and knowledge on opposite spectrums, since to me, religion is based on fiction, whereas knowledge is based on fact.. (btw, if someone does want to believe in whatever religion, I don't have a problem with that, just don't try to push it on me cuz that offends me)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:19:50 PM

Milesnmiles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Ah, but in those halcyon days of yore (and it is also mouthed that after the second coming) nobody or no thing had tasted death. The animals were not given until after the fruit. You can only with your earthly logic conceive that there were lifespans, and that is not the word of your god.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Seeing as how that isn't what the OP said in the OP and later said:

lets base this disscusion on christanity if we can.

Since nothing you have said is actually based in christianity, I have no compelling reason to base anything I say on that particular fairy tale, so the short answer appears to be: We can't.

Well you said; "you assume I am less conversant in the matter than you, which I assure you is not the case". If this is the best you can do in trying to prove you are more conversant in the matter than I am, thanks for the "conversation" and I'll bid you fair well. ;-)

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:25:03 PM

mnottertail

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Ja, expertman, why did Jesus kill the fig tree? I am demonstrating here...............

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RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge - 1/8/2014 5:59:47 PM

playfulotter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ja, expertman, why did Jesus kill the fig tree? I am demonstrating here...............

Why ask him a question anyone can look up on Google?

PS..I found this link that has a lot of info but since I am not religious don't know if any of it is truthful...

http://www.tektonics.org/uz/zapfigtree.html

Also, I have a problem with people believing the bible so much when history from WWI and WWII is messed up..how can they know that what they read is true?

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 1/8/2014 6:37:38 PM >

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