Respecting cultures within kink

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LadyPact -> Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 1:24:02 PM)
A little background for the story. Some have heard the preamble before....... I've been hanging around this website for coming up on seven years. I got brought here by My submissive at the time, whom I fondly called pet. To be honest, I outright laughed at first. The name "Collar Me" kind of had Me wondering if the joint had folks running around, begging folks to collar them via online methods. I rolled My eyes a bit, but pet so enthusiastically wanted Me to have access to his journals so I could read his writings here, and it was such a simple thing that made him happy, so I created an account. I was literally one of those folks who signed on and created a profile that said, "I'll fill this out later". Didn't think much of it. Certainly wasn't looking for anything at the time, and good God knows I had more dang email than I knew what to do with. Why bother? I already had everything that I wanted. Fast forward a bit. That dynamic ended. I flushed out the profile. Realized there were a bunch of people posting on the forums that I already knew. (I lived on the GA/SC border at the time, and was having My escapades from AIRS, to Atlanta, and in T3WD, so folks can figure that out without Me naming old posters.) I certainly wasn't the token leather chick back then. Made an ass of Myself at first, like most new folks do. Picked Myself up and dusted off a bit. Read a bit more. Then, one day, by chance, I was poking around these forums, and I found this certain thread. No, it wasn't the famous "tap, tap, tap" thread. (Though, I've enjoyed that thread many times since.) Instead, it was this thread about "building bridges". Written by somebody who, I thought, at the time, identified as a Gorean Man, and was sort of sticking out the olive branch between our two cultures. We really could respect other cultures within kink. Unfortunately, as it happens so often, and has frequently happened of late, we are still fighting between cultures. It seems to become this dick slamming contest and no bridge is built. So, without further ado, and without making a mess on other threads where this discussion is out of place, I would like to hear your thoughts on how all of the cultures can coincide?

DesFIP -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 1:35:20 PM)
Remove your own ego from the fight. What I see too often, especially with Goreans, is that they have a need to prove they're right. Not that what they do works for them but doesn't work for a lot of other people. I see the same kind of shit from young male dominants who really believe that if everyone doesn't subscribe to their definitions, then they're just players. The unwillingness of people to accept that someone else has different needs and that someone else not subscribing to your views is not a personal attack is not something that we can solve. It points to massive insecurity and the only cure for that is to address where it comes from within a professional setting.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 1:56:04 PM)
Hmmm... The build the bridges thang sounds suspiciously familiar to me. LP, it worked out initially because when you toss all this in a pot and boil it down, we're all after the same thing, our happy. Protocol and practice will very as drastically as a kiss, they're all different, but they do it that way because they like it. When the Goreans crossed Bifrost and came over here, they brought a hell of a lot of fun and very DEEP contributions to what it is that we do over here. It was pretty feckin awesome. It went the other way as well. The coolest shit was the Domme's skipping across Bifrost into counter earth. As difficult as it was for this side---> mainstream, to tolerate the people who lived a lifestyle based on crappy fiction, it was harder for the guys over there <--- in counter earth, to treat our girls and Women with the respect they deserved. We had some real classy people on each side of Bifrost, and that is what made it work. Once everyone really took a look at the fact that our journey was different, but our destination (happy) was the same, the cross exposure made these boards come alive with new perspective, counter perspective, and fricken awesome (healthy) debate. But the ego is a monstrous thang, and when people KNOW they're right, with their one true way, anything outside their KNOW, must be heckled and destroyed. You and I can look at Gor in a totally different way because we were here when Bifrost was built and we got to see the "people" behind Gor. Sadly, it will always take colossal bridge construction... And a bit of trickery, to get people to stop looking at THIS and see the "people" that are a part of THIS or THAT. Great topic YMMV Exiled

evesgrden -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 2:02:19 PM)
We live in an "as if" world. "As if" we owned someone. We don't. But there's an agreement to behave "as if" there was no choice. My dog has no choice in her ownership. She runs away .. I go after her and can call on resources to help me reclaim her. (She's a rescue dog and I should probably have called her Velcro because she sticks to me like crazy.. but that's not the point.) A human can leave even if tattooed, branded, pierced and so forth, ending the relationship is up to either person at any time. Prevent someone from doing that and you go to jail a la GMyourgod. It's "as if" everything else is window dressing with respect to how that manifests itself. Frankly, I think when people take themselves too seriously they forget the "as if" part. The cultures are chosen. They are not religions. They provide a context for a relationship.. that's all. Some are very rich with tradition but at the core the one thing we all have in common is the concept of hierarchy. How do we coincide? There's personal taste, and then there's ethics. There is no need for rancor over preferences, over window dressings. Drapes. Sheers. Shutters. Nada. Blinds --- variations on a theme. There is however a place ethical debate, and even action. The concepts of fundamental right and wrong need to be addressed on occasion butethics have nothing to do with culture. geeze.. after writing all that I thought I was on to something, but it all boils down to different cultures thinking "my way is better"; if it wasn't I'd obviously be doing it your way, and hand in hand with that if my way is better, then your way is implicitly less than, worse, or wrong (the horror). Ergo animosity. Kinda a social psych deal that gets into team/group behavior and competitiveness. But bring in a vanilla group and suddenly all those cultures disappear. What to do? Don't argue about stuff that doesn't matter. It's part of don't sweat the small stuff and in the bigger picture these d/s subcultures are small stuff.

Rawni -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 2:06:42 PM)
How can people build bridges when they lack respect for others? It cannot happen, not in my experience anyway. Even some that would like to get along, will say something that sounds like, or is offensive to someone. It happens all the time. You cannot please everyone and when you try... well... good luck with that. It is an individual thing and as individuals, you will get varying responses. We are print on cyber paper. Even those we think we know... we often times, don't. There are lots of secrets, lots of egos, lots of pride and on and on and on... and you might just be sitting next to one that you really think you know when you don't really know. lol Can you get the answer from everyone.. how many profiles do you have, how many do you use, are you always dom or submissive or a cat? You see, we can't build bridges until we are all exactly the same, so we just build with those willing and it will be pretty damn good. Even those that have met in person... do you really know that person? LOL Sometimes not.

orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 2:09:15 PM)
I don't have any problem with Gor. Back in 2001 when I first landed on msn chatrooms and rocked from one to another, exploring many different aspects of kink, I spent a few very enjoyable days pretending to be a slave in a Gor room (I got 'kidnapped' there, how cute!) A lot of the people from the Gor room used to hang out in other rooms too, if they fancied a change. Gor isn't my thing, and I don't have a lot of respect for the writer, but silk, bells on ankles, third person speech, slaveyness? Yeah, I can see why that's hot. And I don't really see much difference between the two groups. Perhaps the first step would be to recognise that not everyone adopts a 'them and us' mentality to Gor - including Goreans too. If it was so separate, there wouldn't be so much overlap. They are here on collarme, aren't they? They are on fetlife, and alt and any other bdsm site. It's not my thing, but I've never felt that they were particularly excluded either.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 2:19:24 PM)
I'd hate to answer for LP... There's the whole Geneva convention thang, but I don't think she intended this to be just Gor vs Mainstream. Over the years I've heard blah blah blah snigger Gor, old guard, leather, furry, and so on and so forth. Come on people. No one has burned down the Scientology temple, and if anything needed a good match, it's that. It takes a long time to come into the lifestyle and learn all the aspects of wiitwd, that you personally want to do. If your drawn to it, it calls to you, and you love it, how is it you can judge and/or condemn something you haven't taken the time to understand? orgasmdenial has experience with Gor, and that experience told her that it isn't her bag. But I've seen Goreans blasted by people that just know enough about them to know it's based on the books. Not much of a fair shake there. Exiled

LadyPact -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 2:24:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Remove your own ego from the fight. Easier said than done.

Missokyst -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 3:22:24 PM)
agreed. This is not a gor vs mainstream bdsm issue. It is an "my way is right and yours is not" issue. People cannot pull their vanity from an open topic, particularly if they have had any kind of success in their own relationships. Honestly I find it frustrating. So someone wants to eat shit, why should my distaste of that color a topic? I hate it when people ask a specific thing about a topic and it tracks out into a whole other world because people cannot let go of that bone of contention. I don't care if someone is on welfare, is homeless or is wildly good at life. If the topic is up and I have something to contribute I will, if not.. I PASS It by. Sadly most are unable to pass on a topic even if they have never ventured down that road. How do we stop it? It cannot be done. Vanity demands to be seen.

anniezz338 -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 3:36:25 PM)
If people want to respect others cultures, there are two things that can be done. One is to read, gain knowledge of their culture, how they think, how they believe. Two is to take the high road. When squabbles begin to get really disrespectful, both parties (or at least one party) need to step back and agree to disagree. Does that make either party better than the other if one takes the high road? No. It depends on the type of person each person is. Some people are low key and very diplomatic. Some are just nice and don't feel the need to be right everytime. Some people will fight to the death and argue with a tree if they think their way is the right way and others are just plain wrong. As adults, we have the freedom of speech. As kids(not teens), the only thing we fought about was getting our toy taken away from us. Plus being that we have the internet now, we can say things without the risk of getting our ass whipped. But knowing these things does not get us any closer to building a bridge to relate better with other kinks. Only reaching out from each side and doing our best to relate, staying away from hot topic items, it seems like we could find more and more in common than we thought we had.

DarkSteven -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 4:50:30 PM)
I don't respect nor disrespect Gor. It's not my thing and TBH I don't think it really fits within the BDSM world. Same with furries. I'm polite and always up to learning about other stuff but I don't need more than a superficial knowledge of it. There are some activities within the lifestyle that are hard limits for me. YKINMK. I don't see a need to respect as much as a need to not denigrate. That said, while I try to be open minded about practices, I am NOT open minded about character.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 5:59:18 PM)
I can admit I have trouble with Goreans. The philosophy of these cheesy sci fi novels is highly offensive to me. The belief that men are superior to women and that all females would be better off (read know their place) if they were raped by the right male is downright horrendous. I've talked to all kinds of Goreans who claim to not believe in male superiority for instance, yet when you try to discuss just exactly what it is they believe and why they consider themselves Gorean, they can't tell you. There was a thread about this very topic a few months back. So what can I say, I respect their right to believe whatever they want and to live their life as they wish. However, I cannot respect their underlying philosophy, and I won't pretend to. When it comes to things like let's say adults who want to wear diapers, that's been floating around lately. Not my thing in the least, and I don't claim to understand what they get out of it, but again, I respect their right to have all kinds of great fun with that if they wish. I don't think I have to understand or get how people are to respect their right to be.

MalcolmNathaniel -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 7:23:48 PM)
My take on it: The Gorean sub-sub-culture* is simply a high protocol version of BDSM. Much like the leather societies that the OP used to (still does?) belong to. One thing that could be very attractive is that you can know all the rules going in; there isn't a whole lot for the slave to learn (obey, be pleasing) or for the Master to learn (be very strict, be protective.) The rules are already set in stone and pretty damned easy to learn. On the other hand, that's a hell of a tall order to fill and there is virtually no leeway. It's also pure fantasy: all Gorean men are large, strong, forceful swordsmen and all Gorean females are small, beautiful and perfectly obedient. It's also not a very good starting point for someone who isn't even used to the idea of men controlling women. It also doesn't include same sex couples, transgendered, casual play, or any other parts of the spectrum that is BDSM. It's just one corner. Also, honor doesn't necessarily come at the point of a sword. * I say sub-sub-culture because it is a form of the BDSM sub-culture.

littlewonder -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 7:27:17 PM)
meh. I mainly just tolerate most people. There's no respect or anything else. Most people are not exactly the type of people I would normally hang out with so I just don't go where they are. I'm not a fan of Gor so I just leave them be. I feel the same way about a lot of cultures in and outside of bdsm. It has nothing to do with "my way is the right way". We just don't mesh as friends or much of anything else.

LadyPact -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 9:08:52 PM)
My fault. Entirely My fault....... This wasn't particularly a Leather vrs Gorean thread. It was more of a 'can we stop the "only males are Masters" bullshit' kind of thread? Let Me explain....... We've got a lot of threads lately where folks are slamming their dicks on the table because females answer. I know the site and I know the rules. I thought, maybe, this could be a platform for hashing that out. Edited because questions usually come with a question mark at the end.

Rawni -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 9:14:12 PM)
Oh I don't know... I kind of like the thought of some of them slamming their cocks on the tables. (Sorry LP... I had to.)

Missokyst -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 9:17:25 PM)
Hmm.. I never noticed much of that going on here. One ore two, certainly, but the majority recognize that if it is out there, it is open for anyone to answer. As for those few who get their panties wadded up, it is only a gnat I barely notice. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact My fault. Entirely My fault....... This wasn't particularly a Leather vrs Gorean thread. It was more of a 'can we stop the "only males are Masters" bullshit' kind of thread. Let Me explain....... We've got a lot of threads lately where folks are slamming their dicks on the table because females answer. I know the site and I know the rules. I thought, maybe, this could be a platform for hashing that out.

littlewonder -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/15/2014 9:25:28 PM)
I have to say I really haven't noticed it either except for the stray newbie every once in a great while. But they usually disappear after about a week or so. Maybe it just doesn't pop up on my radar.

Apocalypso -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/16/2014 5:45:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact My fault. Entirely My fault....... It was more of a 'can we stop the "only males are Masters" bullshit' kind of thread? That, for me, is a good example of why some opinions (and even people) don't deserve respect beside that which you'd give any human being. Some opinions are simply wrong and the people who hold them are prickfish.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Respecting cultures within kink (1/16/2014 5:59:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rawni Oh I don't know... I kind of like the thought of some of them slamming their cocks on the tables. (Sorry LP... I had to.) But can we nail their balls to it first? Please? That'd be fun. No, it would.

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