UllrsIshtar
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Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
quote:
ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:
I've know several of those women to deliberately provoke punishments in order to reaffirm their owner's strength and control, and get their rocks off.
But Laura has given absolutely no indication that she is doing this. She's questioning him because she wants the ritual to change, not in order to get slapped/whipped/abandoned for golf.
I think they do have a communication problem and it's going to get worse because he doesn't listen. Unless you are 100% in sync (and truly, which couple is? Doesn't matter what their orientation is) it's always good to have the occasional "time out" where you step out of character and just talk to each other without the whole cloak and dagger stuff, person to person and "this works - this doesn't work" kinda stuff, not playing games, just communicating. If that throws you so off balance that it's a danger to the relationship, is the relationship really worth anything?
That's exactly where the problem lays (and also why I don't take offense at Goreans being regularly accused of living in a fantasy land, because lots of them indeed are).
A lot of people who identify as Gorean -and from what she said I'm including laura in this group- set their relationship up in such a way that it becomes impossible to take a time out and talk about the stuff going on on equal footing.
The relationship and consent structure tends to be set up in a way that, as long as she's a slave, she has no rights. Period.
As such, she doesn't have a right to ask for a time out, of a discussion, or a talk person to person, because within the confounds of their relationship and consent structure, she isn't even recognized as being a person.
Legalities and reality being what they are, she of course always has an out, but that out involved no longer consenting to slavery. Most Goreans don't tend to accept 'time outs' as a valid option, because they fundamentally do not acknowledge slaves as fellow human beings. To request a time out equals to propose yourself no longer a slave, which in a lot of cases would instantaneously end the relationship.
Now I agree with you that not having the option for conversation outside of the M/s dynamic isn't healthy long term. It's one of the foremost reasons I'll never be owned by a Gorean man again. But at the same time considering the relationship structure as is means that she needs to accept that as long as she doesn't reestablish different parameters in which she's again allowed to approach him as an equal, he's going to keep treating her as the slave she portrays herself to still be, including denying her the right to complain about him. Complaining about him within their relationship structure does not establish to him that she want to talk, it establishes to him that she's in need of discipline.
It simple doesn't tell him: 'I want to talk to you as equals' because within the way their relationship is set up, that doesn't happen. As a slave, she cannot request to talk to him as equals. In fact, asking to talk as equals with him as a slave would be a direct insult to him, because it borderlines implies he's no better than a slave. In order to talk to him as equals, she needs to ask to talk as being not-a-slave. If she wants to talk to him as equals, she needs to go and tell him: 'I want to drop the M/s for a moment and talk to you as equals'. Doing so may very well mean the permanent end of their M/s, if he's a stickler about such things. That's what would have happened to me if I had made such a suggestion to my former Gorean Master.
Her merely saying 'Master I wish to talk to you about not wanting to do X' will NOT accomplish that. The only thing it'll do is establish her as a unruly slave in need of punishment. Therefor him not paying attention to her request to talk is not, him ignoring her, it's him following the dynamic rules they have. For him to ignore her request to talk he's have to ignore her request to talk not as his slave, but as equals. And as far as she said here, she hasn't made such a request.
I'm amazed at how many cultural differences between Goreans and BDSMers can be hit in one single thread. 
< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 2/27/2014 3:17:10 PM >
_____________________________
I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for
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RE: How often does a Master usually put his slave into ... - 
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