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RE: Are WE racists? - 7/18/2006 9:17:30 AM

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racism is based on our fear and ignorance.. people think that people that look differernt than them and have different ideas are scary and or inferior.. its NOT true.. people are people.. sure people grow up differently based on the culture in which they were raised... but basically we are ALL the same.. as for black history month and all those other holidays people rant about.. realize that the history were were taught in school was based on white anglo saxon males and their accomplishments.. the achievements of blacks, women, native americans et al.. were just sidebars in the history books.. as were the white males exploitation of them. so basically these people who were overlooked as being less important...are finally getting the credit due to them

and yes in case anyone is wondering.. i am white...but im not proud of that.. i had nothing to do with that...its an accident of birth as far as i can see

kat

(in reply to Kidsphoenixx)

RE: Are WE racists? - 7/18/2006 9:48:05 AM

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I agree entirely with badkats point about not being proud of being one particular colour since none of us have the luxury of choice over it.

I think otherwise this thread went off track a little. Everyone is agreed racism is an abhorrence and needs addressing but the OP was making the point that it's possible to be white and suffer racism from a non-white, even if it was enormously overstated in the way it was posted.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 7/18/2006 10:00:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

I agree entirely with badkats point about not being proud of being one particular colour since none of us have the luxury of choice over it.

I think otherwise this thread went off track a little. Everyone is agreed racism is an abhorrence and needs addressing but the OP was making the point that it's possible to be white and suffer racism from a non-white, even if it was enormously overstated in the way it was posted.

I agree to, I don't really care about my color. I'm not proud of it. Why, would I. There are just as many whites I dislike than like. Some useless whites, some brilliant. There is no consistant quality among whites not present in other races. Pride in your color is pretty useless, as it's only color. Nothing I value is present therein.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 7/18/2006 11:50:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: badkat
racism is based on our fear and ignorance.. people think that people that look differernt than them and have different ideas are scary and or inferior.. its NOT true.. people are people.. sure people grow up differently based on the culture in which they were raised... but basically we are ALL the same.. as for black history month and all those other holidays people rant about.. realize that the history were were taught in school was based on white anglo saxon males and their accomplishments.. the achievements of blacks, women, native americans et al.. were just sidebars in the history books.. as were the white males exploitation of them. so basically these people who were overlooked as being less important...are finally getting the credit due to them

Right on BadKat.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 7/19/2006 4:56:14 AM

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 7:10:45 AM

seekchastebutler

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Kudos on the original letter here. I wholeheartedly agree.

Personally, I think racism against "whites" is the most prevalent type today...

Bizarrely, the claim that "whites' as a whole are unfair to "blacks" obviously does not take into account the many multimillionaire and billionaire music artists, business moguls, "professional" children's game players, etc. who have dark skin...

It grossly reeks of propaganda to say "poor me my skin is dark, give me some money, attention and special favors".... Something quality people with darker skin would never stoop to.

Its downright criminal that some are even witchhunting "whites" just for saying the word "nigger"...destroying whole careers by doing so. Dog Chapman likely wouldn't even balk at being called white trash...but he is not allowed to use a historically equal term in a private phone call or in conversations at home? Yet black children and adults say the "n-word" to each other all the time.

Frankly, I think anyone who persecutes "white" skinned people for using the term nigger...is being a Nigger. Capital N. As Dog Chapman clearly explained the term describes quality of lifestyle choices and other adult chosen behaviors, and is not a term of mere skin tone reference. It is no better or worse, but simply equal to the term "white trash"...   And I don't see anyone having a problem with that term.

The fact is, blacks ARE a minority though...not prince and princesses to be given special treatment for their skin color. How absurd to think otherwise. And another fact is that if all blacks and all whites are one...their own people are the ones who originally sold them into slavery long ago. So why aren't they persecuting and going after the decendants of those who started the whole problem?

Being a minority does not mean anything good or bad...it just means that there are less people with your color of skin. Big deal. As a redhead, I have no problem acknowledging that I am even MORE of a minority....because alot less people have my pure ivory skin and blazing red hair color than have pure coffee dark skin.

I was all for the many consessions given to decendants of slaves over the decades, because I don't believe in forced slavery of any kind...but enough is enough...

But there is no one alive today who owned black people as slaves and you cannot blame innocent people for something that people did more than a hundred years ago...its just insane, manipulative and...illegal DISCRIMINATION to do so.

If they keep it up, they wil have no one to blame but themselves if the tide turns back.

I greatly admire people like Oprah Winfrey and Shirley Johnson (BET), Tiger Woods, etc. I don't even have a problem with the vast majority of black "pro" ball players making millions...even though I smirk that people are so silly (and so desperate to be entertained) as to call grown adults playing children's games "professional".   But I smirk regardless whether they have dark, light or flourescent skin tones. Plus, I believe the money raised by such "professional sports" is largely given by white fans, if statistics and logical conclusions are true... where is the discrimination and hatred for blacks in that?

As a color blind white person raised with only positive curiosity for other races and traditions, (raised to be so by equally white and innocent parents and grandparents, etc), I'm frankly tired of people who constantly pull the race card.    No one decent cares anymore about color...

Only the quality of a person and their own life choices count.      That is the American way...

We can never change all people... So likely there will always be genuine white trash, niggers, spics, etc. who constantly bad mouth each other and try to make themselves feel bigger by doing so. But those who fit these labels do so by adult free will choice of behavior and lifestyle...not by the color of their skin.

Its simply an historical fact that terms meaning basically the same thing were created for each "group".   Again, big deal!

I suppose someone ignorant or jealous might even call me white trash... I actually had a fairly wealthy but apparently still extremely insecure and racist "black" guy do so when I refused to date him (no differently than I had countless white guys before him). But as a quality person, I simply ignore or laugh at such people. As do quality people who have darker skin than I, when someone calls them "nigger". I certainly wouldn't make a federal case of it, start a witchhunt or sign up for food stamps or any special program because someone "made" me feel inferior.

Because no one can make me feel inferior.

Even if my parents had done so....by breeding irresponsibly or not raising me well or healthily...then I would only hold them responsible...and build my own life from there.

No one needs to have children if they cannot afford them...and they shouldn't.

Nearly 40 years of quota and special programs for slave decendants are enough... Its time we help and protect each other simply as a result of true injustices...not color issues...ever.

Because frankly....EVERY race under the sun has been enslaved, persecuted and taken advantage of....at one time or another thorughout history.

Not just "blacks", jews, hispanics, or asians...but EVERY race...including "whites"... have been slaves and downtrodden for generations at a time. Often by people of their own skin color...just as africans were first sold into slavery by other africans.

Oprah Winfrey, Tiger Woods and even Tiger Woods father never played the race card...and look where it got them... And if they want to help only black people with the money they accumulated, fine...or mostly black people...it is their money.

But lets stop pandering to those still crying wolf about inequality... It's getting so tiresome...

Life is no more difficult for black people today than it is for white people... At every level.

To further elaborate...I personally don't think LeBron James actually "earned" $90 million just because he played a children's game better than every other teenager...   But at the same time, I don't mind if endorsers and people who are weakminded need someone to "endorse" sneakers and other products for them to want to buy them... want to give him all that money either.   And I don't mind if LeBron enjoys it...or who he chooses to help with it...or whether he chooses to help anyone. More power to him. Its his money now.

I don't see anyone launching a witchhunt that Lebron or Oprah played the race card to get where they are.... And for God's sake, he only dribbles a ball and runs around in shorts and sneakers.... Its not like he's saved the world.   Now Oprah, God love her...is genuinely helping to save the world... I think she earns and truly deserves every penny.

But lets stop the absurd and criminal reverse discrimination finally, shall we?

After all...and again...every white person who owned slaves is now likely dead.    Any who aren't...prosecute them if you can. I only know that my family never owned slaves.

Every black african tribal leader who originated the slave trade and sold their fellow black men, women and children into slavery is now likely dead also.

So there's nothing more to be done about it...

Other people and peoples have endured just as much tragedy in their lives...and deserve help equally...even if they have pearly white skin.

Our country has made specific measures for 4 decades to give opportunity to the decendants of black skinned slaves.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall such concessions being given to white skinned slaves or their decendants...

I don't even see white people raising a stink over the current racist award shows and television monopolies and blatantly exclude whites based solely on skin color... And being the "majority" we could raise quite a stink if we truly wanted to.

I'm sure there are far more white people who are poor and underpriveleged today than there are black people...simply because there are far more white people on the earth.

Where on earth does it say you deserve special favors based on the color of your skin?

The whole point of the civil rights movement was to do away with such ignorance....to not give special treatment, regardless of color....(except for a period of time in government quotas, etc.) ...it was not meant to be a movement to turn the tables and give favoritism for darker skin.

Its absurd that people get away with lumping all "white" people together as if we all know each other and are all just one race too...

Skin color is based purely on generational proximity to the equator...nothing else.   The earth just so happens to have far more land away from the equator than near it....so there are more people with light skin. Duh!

Can we let the skin color issue rest now finally...???

(in reply to Kidsphoenixx)

RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 8:12:05 AM

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Don't worry about it ...
Soon we will all be "brown". Then we can bitch about what we are mixed with.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 8:43:35 AM

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General point. We are all racist because that is how we are socialized. We need to overcome the socialization and just accept eachother as human beings. Then we might be able to sort all the other problems out without blaming each other.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 9:51:33 AM

kdsub

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It seems to me that the majority of so-called white people celebrate a heritage like German…or Irish…maybe Italian or French. What if as a person you had no idea where you came from and the only hint was the color of your skin. Then you would celebrate your race as a heritage because you have no history. I am very proud of my German heritage and I can trace my family back 300 years. I know how I would feel if the link to the past was taken from me by force.

Many black people had to start a new history In America…lets join in and help them celebrate. I know in my area all black heritage celebrations are open to all black white or purple.

There is racism in America among all races and groups and it is a part human nature…Built in to us over the ages as a survival instinct. It is something that must be fought by each generation until our nature changes.
Butch

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 9:55:32 AM

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Happy Kwanzaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 11:28:21 AM

ItalianSMistress

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"We the people means everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, sexual identity, or social class."

I firmly believe this. The other thing that I firmly believe is that white people talking about being disliked for their race is bullshit. I am not saying that people of other races sometimes don’t disrespect us, but it is far worse on the other end of things.
Have you ever been in a store and had the clerk not want to touch your hand when she is giving you back change cuz of the color of your skin?
Have you ever had someone just randomly yell racist remarks at you in public?
Have you ever been told you are not good enough to be friends or date someone you liked bc of your skin color?
Have you ever tried to look up your family tree, only to find out it stops when your great great grandmother was sold off from the rest of her family?

I don’t care if slavery has been over for 150 years, it was carrying on much longer than that. In the history of time, that is really not all that long, only a few generations. Black tribe leader did NOT start the slave trade. What do you think, they called over to the states and said they had some people for sale? WTF? The first few years slaves were of places like Italy, but those people could drop the accent after some time, escape and blend in, so the slave traders decided blacks would be better as they could not hide that way. It may have been blacks that sold their own people, but not only does that not make it right for the white to take them, but don’t you know that those blacks were ensuring their own safety by doing that? Just like the Jewish that had to burn and bury their own to save themselves. Does not mean that they liked it or agreed with it. Perhaps those of you that think that could benefit from some black history lessons.

Not only that but even tho it has been over for that many years, the other things faced have not. The forced segregation and discrimination that has been with them all those years and to a degree, still now. And look at all the stupid celebrities making dumb comments. And I most certainly think that should cause an abrupt end to a career, afterall, I don’t want My children thinking that person is a role model, do you? It does not matter where or how they used the term, bottom line is, I don’t want the future generation growing up thinking its ok to use anywhere, at anytime for any reason. I don’t care what else that person has done or accomplished in their life, that just blackballs all of it.

And FYI, black people that do choose to use that word (and not all do) it started as a way to take the power out of the word, the same way I use the word dyke (yes I am one). Now it has become more of a term of endearment, and there is a big difference between “Nigger” and “Nigga”.

There is a black history month, because blacks have a history in this area that not only needs to be told, but needs to make sure it is never forgotten. That is an important part of their background, just like it is important to have Easter to remember that event in history. I often have this conversation with straight friends also, about why gays people have a parade and straight people don’t. Because straight people were not forced to be hidden and risk even death if not. To this day there are places like that in the world, just as there are places that are worse for racism than others.

In the United States, anti-Black bias was the most frequently reported hate crime motivation. According to statistics released by the FBI, 8,380 offenses were reported in 2005 as a result of bias toward a particular race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity/national origin, or physical or mental disability. 54.7 percent were motivated by a racial bias. Of the 6,804 known offenders reported in 2005, 60.5 percent were white. What does that tell you? That is why, not only do we need to keep black history alive but when you have someone like Dog or Michael Richards or any other person stupid enough to think that is ok, we as society need to let them know it is not.

I saw this topic and could not stay away. I opened it and was disgusted at the first post, but then the more I read on and as I thought it could not get any worse, each time it did.
Anyway I will end this here for now, I could go on forever, but will leave it be for the time being. As you can tell this is a very strong issue for Me, more so than any of you even know and it just makes My blood boil to see such ignorance in 2007. How utterly sad for the Human Race.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 11:36:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me that the majority of so-called white people celebrate a heritage like German…or Irish…maybe Italian or French. What if as a person you had no idea where you came from and the only hint was the color of your skin. Then you would celebrate your race as a heritage because you have no history.

You get a cookie! I wish I knew what my heriage is.
I only know I am black because that is what people tell me. I could never tell you when my family came to the new world. I could never tell you what part of the world my great great great whatever lived.

But oh well
I know who I am now. Just not my history.

If I had to guess anything I would say I am German because of my last name.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 11:41:45 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpielMitMir

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me that the majority of so-called white people celebrate a heritage like German…or Irish…maybe Italian or French. What if as a person you had no idea where you came from and the only hint was the color of your skin. Then you would celebrate your race as a heritage because you have no history.

You get a cookie! I wish I knew what my heriage is.
I only know I am black because that is what people tell me. I could never tell you when my family came to the new world. I could never tell you what part of the world my great great great whatever lived.

But oh well
I know who I am now. Just not my history.

If I had to guess anything I would say I am German because of my last name.

We Germans should stick together

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 11:42:09 AM

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Frankly, I think anyone who persecutes "white" skinned people for using the term nigger...is being a Nigger. Capital N. As Dog Chapman clearly explained the term describes quality of lifestyle choices and other adult chosen behaviors, and is not a term of mere skin tone reference. It is no better or worse, but simply equal to the term "white trash"... And I don't see anyone having a problem with that term.

This is simply nonsense, it is not equivalant to white trash. Dog's (who seems very white trash to me) clearly articulate grasp of the English language not withstanding. It is not a word used exclusively for adults. It is a term of skin tone reference. There are no uses of that word except to piss people off or to broadcast that the speaker is a racist. Perhaps there is a literary use of the word also, but that is different.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 12:07:46 PM

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I agree luckydog. I've always felt that using the term "white trash" indicated that other whites were not trash, implying that as the subjects were exceptional, all other races were de facto trash.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 12:08:44 PM

ItalianSMistress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekchastebutler

Frankly, I think anyone who persecutes "white" skinned people for using the term nigger...is being a Nigger. Capital N. As Dog Chapman clearly explained the term describes quality of lifestyle choices and other adult chosen behaviors, and is not a term of mere skin tone reference.

Frankly, this just shows that you are in fact, a racist. First off, why in Gods name, would any normal white skinned person WANT to use the word nigger? The only ones that do, are clearly racists. And as far as Dog is concerned, he was not even smart enough to accept that he got caught being an asshole and just say sorry. He tried to lie his way out of it and anyone with half a brain can see that. For him to try and imply that this was used to describe her lifestyle choice is a cowards way out of admitting the truth. What lifestyle choice is nigger exactly? And if there is one, why is it called that? And why would anyone with an even pea sized brain ever use it? And no, not until people like Dog, Don Imus, Micheal Richards, and you, the person I quoted, all get educated and open your eyes, can this skin color issue be put to rest.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 1:22:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

People seem to confuse race and culture quite a bit anyway.

I agree with this statement. I could care less what color a person is.
FOR ME, it's how a person thinks and what they do that's important.

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 1:30:38 PM

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edited for non-racist content

< Message edited by SoHott -- 11/14/2007 1:31:25 PM >

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RE: Are WE racists? - 11/14/2007 2:31:41 PM

sambamanslilgirl

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applause - thank you for such an eloquent post

agree with every point made 100%

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RE: Are WE racists? - 3/3/2008 4:20:04 PM

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As a black man my opinion is....

I do know that there is a double standard placed in our society, and I don't think it is going away anytime soon. Because of the globalized oppression that "whites" have had, for centuries, over literally every other ethnic group in the world, anything further would be considered racist. I am not trying to offend anyone but that is the truth.

Had history played out differently we wouldn't be having this conversation, but because of all of the past hate, it has put every other ethnic group on the defense. I don't watch BET I think that the stereotypes that it perpetuates is sickening and demeaning to black people. Oh, and BET is owned by a white guy. It doesn't even have a news show anymore. But the reason there is a BET is because 98% of the other channels are predominantly white. Had the media played things fairly maybe we wouldn't have to have BET, TV1, and all of the other channels.

So in conclusion, are you a racist? Well that's for you to figure out, I know that I am not. Although I know many people that are, but it is mainly out of self defense. Our points of view are going to be different because we don't walk the same road no matter how much we try. Due to stigma & stereotypes I have so many things that I have to unnecessarily deal with on a DAILY BASIS. And not even all of the bad things like being pulled over, or that time a neighbor called the police on me and said I was breaking into a house (the first day I moved into that house in a white neighborhood), I'm and Ivy League graduate and I found it offensive that most people assumed I was there on an athletic scholarship....and everyone swore it was basketball.

You may not be a racist, but society is....whether they want to admit it or not.

(in reply to Kidsphoenixx)

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