RE: What good is morality anyway?

RE: What good is morality anyway? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 8:57:40 PM)
Since you chatterbox24 has indicated an interest to meditate on God and you are not the first to do so it may be profitable to read up on those who have done the same. It is likely that I should read up on Saint Augustine since it has been called to my attention that some of my observations are similar to his. So let us begin there chatterbox24. You have expressed willingness to perform home work assignments. Let's do it again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo I have a book here in my library "On Free Choice of the Will" by Saint Augustine. It appears to be one of his lesser known works though and I doubt everyone has a copy.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 9:22:11 PM)
On Free Choice of the Will by Saint Augustine Translated by Anna S. Benjamin ISBN 0-672-60368-3 The first page is page 3. Is God the cause of evil? Evodius. Tell me, please, whether God is not the cause of evil. Augustine. I shall, if you explain what kind of evil you mean. For we usually speak of evil in two senses: one when we mean that someone has done evil; the other, when we mean that someone has suffered evil. E. I want to know about both kinds. A. But if you know or believe that God is good (and it is not right to believe otherwise), God does not do evil. Also, if we admit that God is just (and it is sacrilege to deny this), He assigns rewards to the righteous and punishments to the wicked--punishments that are indeed evil for those who suffer them. Therefore, if no one suffers punishment unjustly (this too we must believe, since we believe that the universe is governed by divine Providence), God is the cause of the second kind of evil, but not of the first.

Kirata -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 9:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Thats fine. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Life is good. And there it is again, no ability to engage intellectually. That's not what a average IQ should look like the choices you've made come with noticeable negative consequences. You are confusing a lack of interest with a lack of ability. And personally, at least, I can't see any negative consequences arising from declining to engage any further with you. The reality would seem to be that she's smarter than you thought. K.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 9:30:40 PM)
I can relate to this. quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo#Influence Jean Bethke Elshtain in Augustine and the Limits of Politics finds likeness between Augustine and Arendt in their concepts of evil: "Augustine did not see evil as glamorously demonic but rather as absence of good, something which paradoxically is really nothing. The Church celebrates goodness and is the true substance of being.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 9:50:44 PM)
How I see what Saint Augustine is saying (see post 562) is that it is incumbent upon us to forgive God because mysteriously it will all work out. Making a reference to the film IQ, God is smarter than Einstein.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/29/2014 9:54:25 PM)
What I wrote in post 173 bears repeating here. quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Hey you with the supercomputer. Give me a hand here.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 1:07:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Feel free to believe whatever you want. chatterbox24 I am reproducing something freedomdwarf1 posted in Pagan/Wiccan/Druidism Discussion http://www.collarchat.com/m_4670514/mpage_1/tm.htm Post 5 chiefly for your benefit since you accused him of being an atheist. Unfortunately, you goofed on this one. It reminds me of my early days when I asked girls to dance, I wouldn't always remember who I had already asked. I got better with experience. quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 My brother is a Wiccan high priest. That side of the family have a recognised coven. I sent him your opening post and the one thing he absolutely exploded about was the tarot cards. Basically he said, no proper and decent Wiccan would indulge in tarot because it belongs in the Black Arts, not Wiccan. I myself, loosely follow the ways of Pagan and more druid than neo. No doubt you'll get the bible bashers on here too. So you'll probably need a thick skin to be tolerant of them as they can be quite vociferous. Oh please, give me a break.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 1:47:47 AM)
Kirata had something interesting to say in Pagan/Wiccan/Druidism Discussion http://www.collarchat.com/m_4670514/mpage_1/tm.htm Post 20 quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: TNDommeK I've recently become very interested in candle magic and tarot. My wife labels me as a witch. She knows more about this stuff than me. I asked how I can be such and follow the Christian or Christ like faith. She explains magic isn't a religion. The Crowley Tarot (The Book of Thoth) is based on the Tree of Life (as some would argue all versions are), about which the following: In Christian Cabala, Tiphereth is especially associated with Jesus Christ, 'God the Son' (as opposed to Kether, which is God the father, and Yesod, the Holy Spirit). This is because this is the Sephirah in which the divine force 'sacrifices' itself, transmutating into the forces of energy and matter, in order that creation might come to be. It is the sephirah in which 'God becomes a mortal man'. Illustrative of the process of Tipharet is Jesus' teaching in the Book of John, "No one comes to the Father except through me". Kether is raw energy as the Godhead and is as such unknowable by the conscious mind; Tiphareth (the son) balances the force and form of Kether and Yesod respectively allowing Kether to assume a knowable form. A Christian mystic, in relating to Jesus, repeats the process in the other direction, by transmutating that which is lower, in order to achieve the divine. In terms of the Kabbalah, Tipharet encompasses not only "God the Son" but also the related myths of Osiris and other sacrificial gods. ~Source K. In response to TNDommeK his wife "explains magic isn't a religion." Tell that to the atheists. Kirata brought up some interesting things. As I pointed out the Church is orthodox. As such it concerns itself with figuring out who is right and who is wrong and it is willing to spend centuries to do it. My best friend for a time was into the ancient Egyptian religion so I know a little about Osiris and that sort of thing. There are Christian like elements to the ancient Egyptian religion and if your soul is not as light as a feather. There is an incentive for moral hygiene. Since a belief in the one true God can be inadvertent, one would expect these sorts of things. I have no doubt there were many upstanding ancient Egyptian citizens who understood the importance of moral hygiene.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 2:08:08 AM)
One of the central questions is, Is your understanding of the Divine corrupt?

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 2:20:42 AM)
Much as one's belief in the one true God can be inadvertent so can atheism. Excessive flexibility indicates a lack of belief because at some point such flexibility can only be achieved via the existential fallacy.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:15:22 AM)
The Protestants advocate that all men were created equal. If all men were created equal, then the title of Saint given to some men and women becomes a mere honorary title. As I see it the Saints make it possible for lesser men and women to achieve Salvation. They assist mankind in achieving Salvation even after death. The existence of a puritanical spectrum makes it all a lot more plausible. Since God is just those who have done more will have a greater standing in Heaven than those who have done little. If it is just, what compliant will you have? The God is the man with the supercomputer analogy suggests that those who assist in working out the solution will be rewarded.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:16:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Not for me. Psalms 5 chapter 1 KJV give ear to my words, O Lord, consider my meditation . Psalms 104 vs. 34 my meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the Lord. meditation can include God. Does this sound like what a witch would talk about? Ha your silly! I am only pressing you to consider the possibility. It is easy to find passages in the Bible to argue one's point. Meditation can include God. Wrestling with chatterbox24. chatterbox24 is slippery! Surely, she is a witch! ha ha I use what I believe in as argument, these words hold much more power then any I can recite. My words have not been in existence for centuries. My words are not published and distributed to the masses. Empowering Words. Now Good Sir, if I am a witch, a slippery one at that, am I the Good witch or the Bad witch? Shall I ride a broom and cackle? Or should I wave a wand and smile?[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:19:56 AM)
So for goodness sake, be a solution, not a problem.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:31:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Now Good Sir, if I am a witch, a slippery one at that, am I the Good witch or the Bad witch? Shall I ride a broom and cackle? Or should I wave a wand and smile? I suppose it depends on whether you are like Samantha in the television series Bewitched. quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I use what I believe in as argument, these words hold much more power then any I can recite. My words have not been in existence for centuries. My words are not published and distributed to the masses. Empowering Words. Unfortunately, self-expression can breed a belief that you can make the rules, that you can play God.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Feel free to believe whatever you want. chatterbox24 I am reproducing something freedomdwarf1 posted in Pagan/Wiccan/Druidism Discussion http://www.collarchat.com/m_4670514/mpage_1/tm.htm Post 5 chiefly for your benefit since you accused him of being an atheist. Unfortunately, you goofed on this one. It reminds me of my early days when I asked girls to dance, I wouldn't always remember who I had already asked. I got better with experience. quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 My brother is a Wiccan high priest. That side of the family have a recognised coven. I sent him your opening post and the one thing he absolutely exploded about was the tarot cards. Basically he said, no proper and decent Wiccan would indulge in tarot because it belongs in the Black Arts, not Wiccan. I myself, loosely follow the ways of Pagan and more druid than neo. No doubt you'll get the bible bashers on here too. So you'll probably need a thick skin to be tolerant of them as they can be quite vociferous. Oh please, give me a break. Well my apologies to him for assuming he was a atheist. Tarot reading is not Godly. I once long ago had one, and indeed it was accurate. But as you have said Ben, the devil speaks in half truths, the other half leaves the door open for lies and well other things......... One of my best friends is a Master gardener along with being an herbalist. She studies under the founder of studies, the first school located in California. She is quite good, excellent I would say and teaches me what she knows. We are true lovers and respecters of Mother Earth, but we do not worship or use herbs in either wiccan or black magic. I suppose we could try if we wanted ( absolutely no desire), but we are Christians and it is just for fun and knowledge of basic medicinal purposes, cooking, and natural pesticides etc.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:47:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM On Free Choice of the Will by Saint Augustine Translated by Anna S. Benjamin ISBN 0-672-60368-3 The first page is page 3. Is God the cause of evil? Evodius. Tell me, please, whether God is not the cause of evil. Augustine. I shall, if you explain what kind of evil you mean. For we usually speak of evil in two senses: one when we mean that someone has done evil; the other, when we mean that someone has suffered evil. E. I want to know about both kinds. A. But if you know or believe that God is good (and it is not right to believe otherwise), God does not do evil. Also, if we admit that God is just (and it is sacrilege to deny this), He assigns rewards to the righteous and punishments to the wicked--punishments that are indeed evil for those who suffer them. Therefore, if no one suffers punishment unjustly (this too we must believe, since we believe that the universe is governed by divine Providence), God is the cause of the second kind of evil, but not of the first. I read about this man. St Augustine as you requested. Boom, just like that, I felt he was sad. Sad for his past decisions. I was suppose to be reading his knowledge correct? One thing did stand out of the reading, but remember I am a simpleton and my interpretation comes from somewhere else. WAY OUT THERE. Self unity with God. I liked that part. That was the good part. I am sure there was more, but that was the jest of it. That is all, other then, he was a mama's boy and left his partner and child of many years, to pursue a BETTER SOCIAL STANDING. He tore his heart out, and injured and abandoned his family to what pursue a better worldly greedy knowledge based position? Me thinks he reasoned to much. Which leads me to believe it effected him adversely his entire life. But of course, he was a brilliant man of study, a great mind, his work is basically what he had? I do hope this doesn't insult you Ben, my take on St Augustine. ITs not personal.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 4:59:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM One of the central questions is, Is your understanding of the Divine corrupt? I certainly will pray it isn't corrupt. If it is corrupt I will be disciplined. Lead. I ask God to direct my decisions, but deciphering my will and Gods is sometimes a difficult task, especially when you are relatively new to it. I believe God is all goodness, the representation of all goodness. He is never evil. Huge on discipline though. He is also a jealous God. To speak matter of fact, we didn't stand a chance until Jesus came. Now we stand a chance. Follow the law, live a full rewarding life. Concentrate on the good, work toward the good, rewards come. If one is off track, but have good intent a reminder will be blessed to you, to straighten the path again. God is not evil, but he will correct things in bigger and bigger ways if the law is not respected. Even to the extent of death, pain, cruelty, natural disasters etc. I have a HUGE respect for GOD.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 5:07:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 Thats fine. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Life is good. And there it is again, no ability to engage intellectually. That's not what a average IQ should look like the choices you've made come with noticeable negative consequences. You are confusing a lack of interest with a lack of ability. And personally, at least, I can't see any negative consequences arising from declining to engage any further with you. The reality would seem to be that she's smarter than you thought. K. Thank you K. Sharp as a tack you are, and well balanced. I might be a bit prejudice though, you seem to want to protect me. SO I toss a flower at you Gallant Knight.[:D] I have no interest in one who wants to insult not debate. He accuses me of being blind, and others might think this also, but I am firm in my beliefs, but I hope not so stubborn, I cant see the light.

BenevolentM -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 5:20:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chatterbox24 I read about this man. St Augustine as you requested. Boom, just like that, I felt he was sad. Sad for his past decisions. I was suppose to be reading his knowledge correct? One thing did stand out of the reading, but remember I am a simpleton and my interpretation comes from somewhere else. WAY OUT THERE. Self unity with God. I liked that part. That was the good part. I am sure there was more, but that was the jest of it. That is all, other then, he was a mama's boy and left his partner and child of many years, to pursue a BETTER SOCIAL STANDING. He tore his heart out, and injured and abandoned his family to what pursue a better worldly greedy knowledge based position? Me thinks he reasoned to much. Which leads me to believe it effected him adversely his entire life. But of course, he was a brilliant man of study, a great mind, his work is basically what he had? I do hope this doesn't insult you Ben, my take on St Augustine. ITs not personal. Such is the plight of many intellectuals. Based on what I know of his work, he got some things wrong. I take it that you have declined my offer?

chatterbox24 -> RE: What good is morality anyway? (3/30/2014 5:23:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM The Protestants advocate that all men were created equal. If all men were created equal, then the title of Saint given to some men and women becomes a mere honorary title. As I see it the Saints make it possible for lesser men and women to achieve Salvation. They assist mankind in achieving Salvation even after death. The existence of a puritanical spectrum makes it all a lot more plausible. Since God is just those who have done more will have a greater standing in Heaven than those who have done little. If it is just, what compliant will you have? The God is the man with the supercomputer analogy suggests that those who assist in working out the solution will be rewarded. I for one do believe all men are created equal. (can be). I do not believe I am better then anyone. Doesn't matter your position in life, as long as you do it well with excellence, whether your a trash man or a man of wealth. If one isn't in a position, they feel they should be, still keep a good attitude toward your present condition, but ask for it to change, and then pursue it. Believing in God has nothing to do with being stupid about knowledge, its about being responsible with knowledge. I am a scientist of nothing, and never made that claim. I am more educated then also suggested, but I am not speaking about college education anyway. What I talk about is for anyone no matter their status in life. I have experienced money, I have experienced middle class, I have experienced ghetto, I have experienced life. I am very thankful for that, it allows me to understand different situations. Every one of those situations has problems, the problems just change in nature.

Page: << < prev 27 28 [29] 30 31 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875