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"Religion will become as unacceptable as racism&q... - 3/9/2014 8:40:51 AM

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"Actor Chris O'Dowd thinks following a religion will eventually become as offensive and unacceptable as racism.
The Irish star of films such as The Sapphires and Bridesmaids says he grew up respecting people of faith despite his atheist views, but has become "less liberal" as he ages.
Now he says religious doctrine is halting human progress and brands it "a weird cult".
He also thinks US president Barack Obama had to overstate his Christian faith in order to get to the White House.
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O'Dowd has told Britain's GQ magazine: "For most of my life, I've been, 'Hey, I'm not into it, but I respect your right to believe whatever you want'. But as time goes on, weirdly, I'm growing less liberal. I'm more like, 'No, religion is ruining the world, you need to stop!'

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity/actor-chris-odowd-says-religion-is-unacceptable-20140308-34ded.html#ixzz2vTqG8pY9

Does O'Dowd have a point? Will religons' insistence upon preaching against sexual minorities and clinging to redundant dogmas result in it reaching its use-by date? Will organised religions have to change with the times in order to survive?

Your thoughts .......

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/9/2014 8:41:39 AM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:53:32 AM

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Amen Brother.. "Imagine there's no heaven.. It's easy if you try !
No hell below us.. Above us only sky.. You may say I'm Dreamer..
But I'm not the only one.. Maybe someday you'll join us.. And the
World will live as One !!!"

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 10:11:35 AM

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My thought is everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's a stupid one. It's also not the first time I have heard someone suggest that Obama wasn't really a christian and just lied about it to get elected. It is the first time I have ever heard religion equated to racism. Maybe you can explain what one has to do with the other.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 10:22:04 AM

kdsub

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I don't think it will be some mainstream religions views on homosexuals that will be their possible eventual demise. I believe there is just as much discrimination among atheists against gays as there is among the religious.

I believe organized religion's problem lie in their inability to change as fast as society is changing. Science and world communication makes it harder to isolate societies and stifle the free exchange of ideas.

I think the only way religion can survive is to embrace the core values of their teachings and scrap the words of inspired men living in ancient societies. Those words no longer translate directly to today's world and its problems.

Butch

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 10:46:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe there is just as much discrimination among atheists against gays as there is among the religious.

Would love to see how you reached that belief. Atheists and gays are essentially demonized by the right wing, I yet to meet a rational atheist who hates gays the same way people among the right wing does. With atheism usually comes logic and reasoning, and an understanding of other groups who are also discriminated against by the right. Of course thats not to say there aren't homophobic atheists, but they're in the smallest minority to the point of nonexistence.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 3/9/2014 10:48:46 AM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 3:46:44 PM

kdsub

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Oh bull...reasoning and logic...damn... don't you read the posts on this site?

Butch

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 4:41:38 PM

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The problem with religion is not the principles. The problem is that the generations who followed Moses, Jesus Christ, and Mohammed have turned a few simple ideas and philosophies into enormous monoliths with infallibility as part of the core belief system. The discrimination against gays, transgenders, and even the "wrong" skin color that is rife within the various religion sects comes from the distorted idea that worshiping a particular godhead somehow makes the individual superior to someone who worships a different godhead. Short and to the point, it's "my god is better than your god so I have the right to kill you." I would love to see the absurdity of religion abandoned in favor or a more rational outlook, but I don't think the human race will last long enough to become that enlightened.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 5:12:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Does O'Dowd have a point? Will religons' insistence upon preaching against sexual minorities and clinging to redundant dogmas result in it reaching its use-by date? Will organised religions have to change with the times in order to survive?

Keep in mind that the problems christianity has caused Ireland in recent history and it's ongoing religious problems are much worse than what your mentioning.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 6:18:48 PM

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I cannot agree with O'Dowd, whoever he is. Religion will always be a dominant cultural feature because there will always be multitudes of people who need religion; more so than do not. Not offering derogatory assessments here but there will always be people who find solace in religion, who are true believers in a supernatural god, who fear death, who require authority and tradition, ritual and community, and whatever other reasons you may think of to yearn for mystical experience. The secular world cannot fulfill those needs.

Nor will religions become more liberal as modernity demands. We are witnessing a backlash against secular modernism that grows in proportion. The more "personal freedom" that evolves from modernity the stronger the conservative backlash we witness amongst the Islamist, Evangelical, and Charismatic churches. Modernity and the illusion of personal freedom has weakened the liberal congregations and strengthened the orthodox congregations.

O'Dowd is a mistaken prophet, imo.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 7:38:53 PM

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As a gay atheist (and a registered Republican - go figure) I "go with" Dr. Ellis's statements that (paraphrashing, now, mind you) that "the more religious you are, the more mentally ill." BTW, he's the "founder" of the fastest growing psychological school of thought which is Rational Emotive Therapy. But I drift.....

Star Trek writers (the 2nd and most famous being Gene Roddenberry) had NO religion in their series, and certainly not any reference to Chistianity. My thought is that the Pharonic Era religions - Egyptian Ra, Roman Saturn, Greek Zeus, etc. show what will eventually happen to the "religions of the book," namely Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. Already there is Ba' Hai (which at www.Bahai.com, we see, "The Bahá'í Faith is the newest of the world's independent religions,. a faith focused on building a just, peaceful and sustainable world.")

As half of the magic act Penn and Teller, Penn Jillette spoke on NPR - Nov 21, 2005 . His essay starts, (again paraprashing) "Atheism is not believing in God. I am beyond that. I assert there is no god." He proceeds to speak as to the joy of life on earth and how we must leave a legacy for our children and the generations to come.

BRB - lost link.

www.npr.org/2005/11/21/5015557/there-is-no-god

Hey! I was SURE that the Berlin Wall would NOT fall in my life time. OOPS! There it goes.....

I see small "cracks" in Roman Catholicism. The Egyptian religion centered on Ra and had about 5,000 years. Judiaism is about 4,000 years "old," Christianity 2,000, etc. Not to worry, the human race WILL outlast religion. Yeppers, Darwin WILL win...... wait, that's a drift.... BUT that's why he was so reviled. He, like Galileo, moved the "centricity" of the Universe away from humanity and therfore, away from "the image of God." If God is the center of the Universe, and He made humans in his image and sent his "only begotten Son, that who so believe, believe-ith in Him, should not perish, should not perish, but have everlasting Life,"* Well.... that kinda tears the whole thing, now, doesn'it?

*Lance sang in an Episcoplian choir for many ears. (Errr.... Years, not "ears." LOL!)

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 3/9/2014 8:30:54 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 7:47:00 PM

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quote:

I "go with" Dr. Ellis's statements that (paraphrashing, no, mind you) that "the more religious you are, the more mentally ill."

Handy to know where one stands in your worldview.

ETA: Nothing exemplifies tolerance and open-mindedness quite like branding those who disagree with you as "mentally ill."

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 3/9/2014 8:47:37 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:00:18 PM

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quote:

It's also not the first time I have heard someone suggest that Obama wasn't really a christian and just lied about it to get elected.

Perhaps you heard that on snopes right before it was debunked?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Claim: Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.

As noted above, Barack Obama describes himself as "a Christian," says that he is "rooted in the Christian tradition," and his association with the United Church of Christ began over twenty years ago, long before he contemplated a political career. (Obama was first elected to the Illinois state senate in 1996, but he has been involved with the United Church of Christ since the mid-1980s.)

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:04:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I don't think it will be some mainstream religions views on homosexuals that will be their possible eventual demise. I believe there is just as much discrimination among atheists against gays as there is among the religious.

And this is a good example of the problem with wishful thinking.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:19:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I "go with" Dr. Ellis's statements that (paraphrashing, no, mind you) that "the more religious you are, the more mentally ill."

Handy to know where one stands in your worldview.

Do you believe in hallucinations, miracles, and actual, physical transubstantation?
More at his Wiki entry, where we read:
=============
Ellis and religion

In his original version of his book Sex Without Guilt, Ellis expressed the opinion that religious restrictions on sexual expression are often needless and harmful to emotional health. He also famously debated religious psychologists, including Orval Hobart Mowrer and Allen Bergin, over the proposition that religion often contributed to psychological distress. Because of his forthright espousal of a nontheistic humanism, he was recognized in 1971 as Humanist of the Year by the American Humanist Association. By 2003, he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto.[14] Ellis most recently described himself as a probabilistic atheist, meaning that while he acknowledged that he could not be completely certain there is no god, he believed the probability a god exists was so small that it was not worth his or anyone else's attention.

While Ellis’ personal atheism and humanism remained consistent, his views about the role of religion in mental health changed over time. In early comments delivered at conventions and at his institute in New York City, Ellis overtly and often with characteristically acerbic delivery stated that devout religious beliefs and practices were harmful to mental health. In The Case Against Religiosity, a 1980 pamphlet published by his New York institute, he offered an idiosyncratic definition of religiosity as any devout, dogmatic and demanding belief. He noted that religious codes and religious individuals often manifest religiosity, but added that devout, demanding religiosity is also obvious among many orthodox psychotherapists and psychoanalysts, devout political believers and aggressive atheists.

Ellis was careful to state that REBT was independent of his atheism, noting that many skilled REBT practitioners are religious, including some who are ordained ministers. In his later days, he significantly toned down his opposition to religion.

While Ellis maintained his firm atheistic stance, proposing that thoughtful, probabilistic atheism was likely the most emotionally healthy approach to life, he acknowledged and agreed with survey evidence suggesting that belief in a loving God can also be psychologically healthy.[16] Based on this later approach to religion, he reformulated his professional and personal view in one of his last books The Road to Tolerance, and he also co-authored a book, Counseling and Psychotherapy with Religious Persons: A Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy Approach, with two religious psychologists, Stevan Lars Nielsen and W. Brad Johnson, describing principles for integrating religious material and beliefs with REBT during treatment of religious clients.

Ellis was a lifelong advocate for peace and opponent of militarism.
=============
Thanks, dc, for making me go look.

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:19:54 PM

kdsub

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In times of prosperity it seems people of different religions, or no religion, get along with few problems. I don't believe feeling superior is the motivation for strife. If that were the case we here in America would be continually at war with each other. Of course there are always the fanatics... and they are not limited to the religious.

Now I do believe religion is often used to manipulate people...especially those in economic stress. But if it were not religion it would be something as simple as nationalism. It does not take much when people feel their lives or livelihood threatened.

Opinion of course but I believe people are basically good and as long as their way of life is not threatened they will live and let live.

Butch

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:25:08 PM

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Un-drifting, and making my point DIRECTLY to the OP's title:

"Religion will become as unacceptable as racism"

Nope. Religion will simply disappear. Might be an historical artifact, as is the study of the Egyptian Ra. Give it (the peoples of the book) 10,000 years and report back, okay?

ETA: It's ALBERT (not Robert) Ellis.

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 3/9/2014 8:28:49 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:38:36 PM

kdsub

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Lance if we have 10,000 years or prosperity and manage to limit our wars to police actions I agree with you. There will be no need for a God to pray for deliverance.

The question is...can mankind do this? There is a good likelihood of catastrophic wars in that life span that could set civilization back thousands of years. If that happens religion will once again flourish because men need hope when life is hard and seems impossible.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/9/2014 8:39:30 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:47:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Lance if we have 10,000 years of prosperity and manage to limit our wars to police actions I agree with you. There will be no need for a God to pray for deliverance.

The question is...can mankind do this? There is a good likelihood of catastrophic wars in that life span that could set civilization back thousands of years. If that happens religion will once again flourish because men need hope when life is hard and seems impossible.

Butch

of was "on" - fixed

Without gawd, the namby-pamby irrational thought "I hope / pray that XYZ happens," turns into, "I think I can make XYZ happen." Maybe it becomes, "After thinking through the options, I see that XYZ is not possible."

And that is why Atheism is gaining "Disciples" daily. LOL! Rational thought ALWAYS wins out over sitting there, hoping / praying.

"Ask in My Name and it shall be gven unto you." Yeah, right.

ETA: Almost 10:00 PM local. G'nite.

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 3/9/2014 8:52:28 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 8:58:04 PM

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Let us first note that "religion" does not require belief in a supernatural being, i.e. God. According to Dictionary.com (not the best resource, but at least one to which we can all refer), religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, blah blah blah. The supernatural agency(ies) is a fillip. The core part is the set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.

Thus, there can easily be religion with a god.

Secondly, at its core, most of the religions has as their main theosophy, a set of moral and ethical frameworks that are actually quite good. Words such as "turn the other cheek", "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", etc. But, as with almost any human endeavour, the end result is open to interpretation. Some interpretations will be worse than others, unfortunately, although who is to judge "worse" and "better"?

Thirdly, humans are emotional creatures. These emotions play into a lot of our actions and, as such, there will always be an element if irrationality to our behaviour and beliefs. We can not know everything and we must accept "on faith" some aspects of life so that we can get on with actually living.

Lastly, even hyper-rationalism can cause problems. I direct you to the prisoner's dilemma and its application to, say, scarce resources. Hyper-rationalism could result in the decision that it's in one group's best interest to wipe out another group and thereby reduce demand for resources. It would be done without anger and without the approval of god, but the end result is just the same.

No, the difficulty is not that people are religious. The difficulty is when people are dogmatic and are unable to adjust their world-view in light of social and scientific discoveries. But religions do change and do move from their pedestals. They do it very slowly, too slowly, admittedly. For instance, at one time, non-caucasians were considered less than human, soul-less, which is odd considering where Christianity originated, but I digress.

Perhaps, in the end, religion's true function is not to explain the universe, nor to lead us. Perhaps its function is to be the brakes on the train, the eternal voice saying, "Oh? Prove it. Slow down a moment and take another look at the direction and speed that you are taking." Maybe religion is society's "Devil's Advocate".

By the way, this is coming from an atheistic-leaning agnostic (or as someone else once put it, a probabilistic atheist)

< Message edited by Kithra -- 3/9/2014 9:00:45 PM >

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RE: "Religion will become as unacceptable as raci... - 3/9/2014 10:26:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

Without gawd, the namby-pamby irrational thought "I hope / pray that XYZ happens," turns into, "I think I can make XYZ happen." Maybe it becomes, "After thinking through the options, I see that XYZ is not possible."

And that is why Atheism is gaining "Disciples" daily. LOL! Rational thought ALWAYS wins out over sitting there, hoping / praying.

Rationalism regards reason as the preeminent source of and test for truth. But that is just an opinion. A claim. And, as it happens, one that has been repeatedly found not to be true. So all we really have here is just another priest selling a cheap caricature of his opponents and an inflated assessment of his own faith.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2014 10:56:32 PM >

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