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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/4/2014 5:13:52 AM   
OriginalRebel


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I don't think a switch should try and persuade someone who isn't into switches that things could be good if only they understood. Its their preference, just as they have a preference for certain looks in a person. Trying to talk them round is in my opinion silly.

I think labels have their place as a basic guide line but this site has ridiculously few choices. Nobody can come here and be an "unsure" and nobody can come here and be a "Fetishst" a "Masochist" a "Sadist" or "Just someone who does this for fun". I certainly wouldn't be putting dominant as my label if there was more choice but "dominant" is the nearest thing I can put.

As far as people not liking you if you don't fit in the right box (on here), that's on them. What empty and insecure lives they must have if they can't like a switch. If anything it does the switches a huge favour because it sorts out the good healthy characters from the idiots.

(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/4/2014 5:31:46 AM   
FightingChains


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I agree OriginalRebel. Certainly wouldn't try and convince anyone to do anything I didn't like.

I think my issue is more the assumption that I'm going to need both.

Say I only to submit, but like to control some times if my partner is ok with it. Then I meet this amazing dominant who isn't interested, but I'm enamoured with him. I can gladly give up my desire for control just to be with him. And then he finds out I'm a switch, and say's he's not interested. He assumed I'd need that, that I was incompatible. Either that, or he didn't think I was a 'true submissive'.

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/4/2014 5:35:53 AM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 2:45:40 AM   
LadyLucan


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@ epiphiny

Ironically I think your detailed explanation comprises precisely the reason I don't 'do' switches any more. You write of your joy in finding a domme who will 'inspire' and 'invite' your submission, amongst other epithets.

For me, I want the submission to be a given, always-on, because my joy as a dominant is in directing and developing it, not from repeatedly re-establishing it. For me the latter is the D/s equivalent of fuck buddyism.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 4:12:33 AM   
FightingChains


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If you're referring to me, LadyLucan, you should be aware that I'm gay, and I'm a dominant sadomasochist, not a submissive switch.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 4:40:03 AM   
LadyLucan


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I was trying to reply to epiphiny, but for some reason the system deleted the '@' sign I posted - not sure if the poster's name is still on there? I can see '**** epiphiny' on my screen, and my post contains quoted words from theirs. No offence intended.

(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 5:43:17 AM   
FieryOpal


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Next time, LadyLucan, if you're unsure how the post will go through, start off with "Fast Reply" or "FR," and that way the In reply to poster will know your comments aren't directly or indirectly referring to him/her.
That's nothing compared to the faux pas I made the other day when mnottertail started off his message with "OP" right below mine, and in my rush I misread it as "Opal"--now, how stupid was that of me!

It's too bad that none of your switches have worked out for you. This could have just as easily happened with a (bratty) sub. I also find it tiresome to have to keep pulling rank, and agree that when someone consents to be your submissive, their submission should be a "given."

My cousin is very happy with her male switch partner, but he started off as a sub and has always had a career which gave him a lot of authority. His inspiration to be submissive to her is ongoing and unfaltering, and they work as a team. What he gets that many male subs don't get (and some Dommes as well) is that being submissive doesn't mean acting unmanly or not masculine. By the same token, a Dominant woman shouldn't have to act unfeminine either. There are some who get off on this emasculinization bit as their kink, but this isn't attractive to me in a man. I'm old-fashioned in that I don't want a man who can't protect me, or a man who has the mental faculties of a child.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 6:23:03 AM   
DaddySatyr


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This (I think) deserves a thread all its own.

My best friend (female dominant) had such a hard time finding a submissive partner who was a gentleman.

She wanted someone to wrap her in his arms ... to make her feel safe ... to hold a door for her ... to kill spiders and do the Bar-B-Queuing.

Most males who contacted her wanted to be "forced" to do things that were not what she was looking for. Of course, almost each time she declined graceful and graciously, she was told how "fake" she was and yada, yada, yada.

I always comforted her (the best I could) by telling her that what she was looking for was a pretty difficult find; almost like the couples that search for unicorns (as a result, the word "unicorn" has taken on a new meaning for us).








quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

... What he gets that many male subs don't get (and some Dommes as well) is that being submissive doesn't mean acting unmanly or not masculine.





Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 12:42:13 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joybaby

I feel exactly as LadyLucan does (except from the other side). When i tell a switch that i'm only looking for a Dominant, they will always (at least, so far they have) tell me that they can be that for me. I have nothing against switches but they do nothing for me…and no matter how dominant they "think" they can be, it won't be enough. I'm always polite but sometimes i just have to stop responding because some people won't take a polite no for an answer. And, even if i was swayed, wouldn't they (at some point) need their submissive needs met?

My experience is identical to this ^. I prefer to be honest and tell switches who message me that I am interested in dominants only, and without exception I get argument about how dominant they will be with me or about how shallow I am for limiting my desires to dominants only.

I don't regard switches as sometimes dominant and sometimes submissive. I see them as a unique third orientation altogether. Much like bisexual people in my view, who I don't see as sometimes hetero and sometimes gay, but as always bi, a distinct third persuasion.

So I am not attracted to switches and not to bisexual men. Not any hatred, to answer the OP, but I have learned through experience to just block and delete rather than explain my honest reason for being uninterested. Just my own opinion and views of course.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/5/2014 11:41:31 PM   
FightingChains


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Hmmm...

quote:

I prefer to be honest and tell switches who message me that I am interested in dominants only, and without exception I get argument about how dominant they will be with me or about how shallow I am for limiting my desires to dominants only.

I don't regard switches as sometimes dominant and sometimes submissive. I see them as a unique third orientation altogether. Much like bisexual people in my view, who I don't see as sometimes hetero and sometimes gay, but as always bi, a distinct third persuasion.


How is you saying "switches are a third something" any different to me saying "you're not really submissive"? How can I know that? And how can you?

When you start telling others how they are, you seem to me to be getting into dangerous territory. You aren't a switch... how would you know?

It seems to me you made assumptions about every switch, and now just pre-judge them. You also have no basis to know what a switch is really like, only perhaps experience with the switches you know. Of course you get into an argument.

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/5/2014 11:59:13 PM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/6/2014 5:17:36 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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I'm not telling others how they are. I am speaking, as stated in my post, of my opinion only. If in my view men who switch aren't dominant, that is my view and I am entitled to hold it and post it should I choose to. I am also entitled to decline involvement with a switch on the basis of my view of that orientation if I choose to. I am aware based on my experience on CM that many switch men wish to be viewed as dominant except when they are submitting. Good luck with that.

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Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
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(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/6/2014 5:48:05 AM   
FightingChains


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And I'm entitled to think that's prejudiced, ignorant, and closed minded.


Edited:
I edited this as I didn't mean to offend, but merely to comment. My initial comment was harsher, and I apologise. Nevertheless, my above viewpoint still stands.

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/6/2014 5:53:48 AM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/6/2014 6:26:32 AM   
OriginalRebel


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How could a dominant minded man possibly submit or bottom ?
Because he's confused?
because he's not really a dominant?
because he's playing a game?
or my answer: Because he's man enough, confident enough and brash enough to be open minded without fear of losing any of his dominance. The switch men I have come to know and love are fun loving guys who absolutely know what they are about. I'll go further and say, those very men are 100% dominant and 100% submissive in their parallel worlds. How crazily fantastic that must be.

I see so many insecure dominants; men and women who believe if they don't behave in a certain way, someone else may point a finger and say, "that's not very dominant" and these people are the same sort that point a finger at a switch and say, "your either all or your not". I actually find the whole thing quite hilarious.

I'm in a catch two because I find a lot of submissives boring. When I annoy them and they smile at me through gritted teeth and say, "yes Ma'am" I want to slap them, not because I'd enjoy it but because they are putting on some sort of act and not being who they should be, (an annoyed person). I can't do the permanent dominant thing either because I have to put thought and effort into that and I can't honestly be bothered. Instead I'm just my norm demanding self unless we decide to play. If they don't like it they can crawl off and entertain someone else. Many would deem me 'just a player', which is fine because playing is great fun.


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/6/2014 9:32:31 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

And I'm entitled to think that's prejudiced, ignorant, and closed minded.


Edited:
I edited this as I didn't mean to offend, but merely to comment. My initial comment was harsher, and I apologise. Nevertheless, my above viewpoint still stands.


And I think your touchiness on the subject is silly. Lots of women will not be attracted to men who are bisexual. Lots of submissive women will not be attracted to men who switch. I know this is not unique to me because women have posted so on these forums.

We ALL have our own idiosyncratic attractions. Age, gender, D/s orientation, race, appearance/weight. Saying that one person's attraction criteria demonstrate prejudice and ignorance in itself demonstrates (1) your ignorance about the nuances of personal sexual and romantic attraction and (2) tiresome personal insecurity.

Grown up men and women will simply move toward those who find us attractive and suitable, instead of whining about why everyone should.

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Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/6/2014 1:37:33 PM   
FightingChains


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I'm not whining. I'm stating that you have shown prejudice, and you have. I don't want a relationship with you or any other.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 1:02:20 AM   
vestigialwilly


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This thread really shows one of my pet hates in the BDSM world - other people who tell people what a "true" Dom/Domme/Sub/Slave/<fill in blank> should be. This seems to be at its worst for some when it comes to switches and is I think analogous to the abuse some bi-sexuals get from some in the gay community.
All people are different and while some have their needles right over on one side on the spectrum (gay/straight, Dom/Sub) most others have mixed traits that surface in different situations with different people.
I thought I was more or 100% sub but have discovered that with some people I do have a dominant side that can come out and I even quite enjoy it - it's experience things from the "other side" and is illuminating. I don't consider myself a switch but if others were to so label me it would not bother me. Similarly I could not really imagine switching with one person - for me it depends on the person which state I am in (at least 90% of the time that will be sub), but if you are one who can switch with the same person that is fine with me.
We are all different. Let's celebrate and enjoy the diversity.

(in reply to FightingChains)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 2:39:14 AM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vestigialwilly

This thread really shows one of my pet hates in the BDSM world - other people who tell people what a "true" Dom/Domme/Sub/Slave/<fill in blank> should be. This seems to be at its worst for some when it comes to switches and is I think analogous to the abuse some bi-sexuals get from some in the gay community.
All people are different and while some have their needles right over on one side on the spectrum (gay/straight, Dom/Sub) most others have mixed traits that surface in different situations with different people.
I thought I was more or 100% sub but have discovered that with some people I do have a dominant side that can come out and I even quite enjoy it - it's experience things from the "other side" and is illuminating. I don't consider myself a switch but if others were to so label me it would not bother me. Similarly I could not really imagine switching with one person - for me it depends on the person which state I am in (at least 90% of the time that will be sub), but if you are one who can switch with the same person that is fine with me.
We are all different. Let's celebrate and enjoy the diversity.

I'll go along with what (married female switch) ChatteParfaitt has stated on more than one occasion, that we are all S/switches to one degree or another.

That which you suppress and/or deny will surface in inappropriate ways, some of which can be self-destructive or self-defeating. Take the stereotypical bratty sub, for instance, or the self-professed slave who is really looking for a SuperSugarDaddy/SuperSugarMommy-type. Or Über Dom/me -- HighMaster Domly McDomliness, and the Raging Amazon Bitch-Goddess From Hell. Anyway, the list of pretension goes on and on.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 3:48:17 AM   
LadyLucan


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FieryOpal, thanks for your techy advice downthread. Hopefully I've got the hang of the basics now!

Re: the idea of us all being some degree of switch. I've thought about that notion intensively over the years, particularly because bisexuality is often thought of in the same way, and I know I can't function well as a monosexual. It chimes with the currently fashionable 'spectrum' model of many human characteristics.

While I'm uncomfortable with utterly binary formulations of any social construct, I'm also icky about any scale which functions to disregard the top and/or bottom (no pun intended) levels. This is because I believe that there are people who, to all intents and purposes, simply are gay. Or atheist. Or sub. Or autistic. Or whatever. Under extreme circumstances those fundamental(ism)s might be sorely tested, or even collapse, but it doesn't make them any less real.

Simply put, I think everyone on a spectrum is as important as each other. That includes people on there who have negligible/massive amounts of whatever it measures. So is identifying that there may be a tiny bit of (non-consensual) sub in me helpful when it comes to avowed switches fulfilling their needs? I'm not convinced.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 4:12:47 AM   
FightingChains


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I think there is a lot of looking at this as a spectrum from 0 to 10. That people who are 0's want 10's, and that people who are 10's want 0's. That switches are somewhere in the middle and maybe they're more sub and are maybe 3's and they should seek someone who's a 7, if that makes sense?

The problem I have is that people are so much more complicated than this.

Some switches are dominant. They are completely dominant, and yet if the situation was right, would be comfortable letting go of control (and for dominants, I'm sure that takes a lot of internal security) and yet they get treated like they're mediocre for it.

Some switches are submissives. They are completely submissive, but when the occasion was right, if the right partner came along and was happy with that, they'd take charge.

Some are completely both, and it depends on the partner, or the circumstances, or they can get all their needs filled in one.

Perhaps we should stop looking at this as dominant and submissive are on the same scale...

Maybe someone's 50% submissive, and completely unrelated, they're 75% dominant?
Maybe someone's 90% dominant and 70% submissive?

Maybe they're completely separate natures that don't contradict or work on a scale where to be more of one, you have to be less of another?


Then again, that just kills the heart of all the uber-subs and uber-doms who believe in the simple three categories of Dom, Sub, and vanilla, doesn't it?

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 4:14:27 AM   
DaddySatyr


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I can sink my teeth into this, off-shoot.

I sort of think we're all "switch" to one degree or another but to truly build on what LadyLucan said; I've always explained any degree of "switchiness" that I exhibit to be for a more nefarious reason.

I have, frequently, pointed out to people that no matter how dominant they are, they submit to a boss or the law or their local dungeon master, what have you.

But, one of my favorites was always the state trooper, pulling me over for speeding.

I used to say: "I get pretty damned submissive, when he asks for my credentials." The more I think about, though, I've come to realize that it is only really submissive to my ultimate goals and it works for a lot of situations. I want that paycheck. I want to keep being allowed to visit the dungeon. I want to keep being able to drive to my local karaoke bar. I don't want that speeding ticket.

I think by "submitting" to the people/situations that I have described, I do so because it makes my life better/easier/more enjoyable.

Some of us served in the military and while there was no specific personal gain, I think the entire experience helped us in immeasurable ways but, even there, to a large degree, I did the things I did so that the "shit" didn't "roll downhill".







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/7/2014 4:52:57 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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FR~

I don't agree that all people are 'switch' somewhere on a scale.
Some are dominant and some are submissive.
If you are hanging off the end of one end of the spectrum or the other, we have specific names for that; ie, a sub or Dom/me.

And I think there is a significant difference between obeying the law or your boss and I don't view either as "submitting" in any sense of the word.
If you have someone that doesn't submit or doesn't dominate at all - that doesn't make them any kind of switch.
If there are specific circumstance where you just might change, then you would be some sort of switch; but not at the extremes.
Sorry, I think people are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just for the sake of it.
It's a simple case of Sub<===Switch===>Dom/me - and you fit into one of the 3 typical types.


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