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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 12:54:33 AM   
AurumArgent


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That is not a result of prejudice or preference, but is instead a function of supply and demand.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 1:03:10 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Really???

In my case (as a Dom), I don't want anyone that might have the slightest inclination to switch even remotely into a non-submissive role.
That is sheer preference and nothing to do with supply and demand.



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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 1:12:23 AM   
AurumArgent


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But whether or not you dismiss someone on the basis of the label of "switch" before even bothering to find out just what they mean by that is strictly a function of how many people are available who identify as "sub."

If you have plenty of other options, why take the risk?

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 1:23:09 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Because, as a general rule, certain things have a generalized meaning.
A submissive doesn't want to dominate.
A dominant doesn't usually want to submit.
A switch is able (and likely) to do both - that's why they are called switches.

If you want to put a different meaning to generalized phrases, that would confuse the fuck out of most other people in the scene.

If people have a preference, it's a preference of the type of people they are wanting to (possibly) engage with.
They aren't bought and sold like any commodity so the usual laws of supply and demand don't figure into it at all.
If you happen to be looking for something very specific, then your choices are probably going to be limited to a much smaller pool of people. But even that isn't 'supply and demand'. That sort of turn of phrase is a misnomer and an oxymoron in this context.


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 1:42:21 AM   
Greta75


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Yup, all my conditions and expectations has shrank my supply pool into a very tiny niche group of men. So my search will be hard. But if it's what you need, it's what you need. I have never settled. When I chose my x-husband, i chose someone who I believed was the best. And when I chose my x-dom, I also believed he was the best. That's how I can stay in love with someone believing that I have chosen the best possible person suitable for me, that I won't have eyes for anybody else or ever feel like if I'm missing out on someone else out there.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 1:44:18 AM   
AurumArgent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Because, as a general rule, certain things have a generalized meaning.
A submissive doesn't want to dominate.
A dominant doesn't usually want to submit.
A switch is able (and likely) to do both - that's why they are called switches.

If you want to put a different meaning to generalized phrases, that would confuse the fuck out of most other people in the scene.



Really? This is certainly news to me.

Because I've never met two people who agreed on exactly just what those three labels mean.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 4:30:33 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AurumArgent


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Because, as a general rule, certain things have a generalized meaning.
A submissive doesn't want to dominate.
A dominant doesn't usually want to submit.
A switch is able (and likely) to do both - that's why they are called switches.

If you want to put a different meaning to generalized phrases, that would confuse the fuck out of most other people in the scene.



Really? This is certainly news to me.

Because I've never met two people who agreed on exactly just what those three labels mean.

Notice I said general rule and generalized meaning - not an exact match

So when I look for a submissive person, I don't expect that person to be a switch or a dominant in any way.
The nuances of that submission will vary as will the precise definition of what each expect - but it would still be a submission as a general term.

If someone labelled themselves as submissive and I found they were a dominant, I'd be well miffed because the generalization of the term is reasonably well defined.
Nit-picking the detail is purile and childish and unnecessary and will depend very much on the people to decide for themselves within the dynamic; but it won't change the general and accepted definition.



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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 2:40:29 PM   
evesgrden


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FR~

Chains, I don't see you as a switch. You like being topped in the bedroom. That's your choice. I would consider you a switch if sometimes you were in charge of the relationship and sometimes you weren't. Or I see switches as having vanilla dynamics, an egalitarian relationship but they love kinky play and explore both sides of it.

Your submissive knows how you like sex and play, and provides that for you. If you wanted it done differently, could you just say what you want and expect compliance? If your submissive wanted it done differently would there be a need to ask for permission?

Dominants say "we're going to do X this time"
Submissives say "Can we please do X this time?"
Whatever it is that X represents is immaterial.

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What you permit, you promote.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 3:06:00 PM   
BecomingV


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FR - Having a preference to not enter into a D/s relationship with a Switch is not a form of hate any more than a preference for men would be an expression of hatred towards women.

Avoiding a discussion to explore how an individual came to choose their label, may be a form of hate. You know, like bigotry - it needs ignorance to flourish.

LOTS of ignorance in the BDSM community, but people do try anyway. For now, we have debates.

What is a Dom? a sub? a switch? a top? a bottom? and it goes on...

After years of listening to, and reading about, the community noise of debate, I don't expect any common ground to be found. We've seen, in vanilla life, an evolution of meaning in regards to the concepts of womanhood, femininity, manhood and masculinity. Gay, used to be designated as a mental illness, along with sado-masochism, and both are no longer in the diagnosis manual. Social evolution happens.

Today, we debate the Dom or sub - ability, of a switch. Tomorrow, that debate will seem silly.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 3:59:00 PM   
FightingChains


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quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

FR~

Chains, I don't see you as a switch. You like being topped in the bedroom. That's your choice. I would consider you a switch if sometimes you were in charge of the relationship and sometimes you weren't. Or I see switches as having vanilla dynamics, an egalitarian relationship but they love kinky play and explore both sides of it.

Your submissive knows how you like sex and play, and provides that for you. If you wanted it done differently, could you just say what you want and expect compliance? If your submissive wanted it done differently would there be a need to ask for permission?

Dominants say "we're going to do X this time"
Submissives say "Can we please do X this time?"
Whatever it is that X represents is immaterial.


In everyday life:
We are *generally* vanilla. I just have a tendency to lead. No power exchange. We're equals.

Generally in S/M or sex:
I say "We're going to do X."
He says "Fuck off, we're doing Y." as he hand cuffs me and forces my hand.

or

I say "We're going to do X."
He says "Can we do Y?"

Depends on the day, hour or minute how it happens. That is your vanilla dynamic, but that does vary wildly when someone takes control.

_____________________________

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/14/2014 7:36:06 PM   
evesgrden


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You're kinky :)

Don't pay attention to labels --- their purpose is to make communication easier. You're doing what works for the two of you.

Revel in it :)

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/15/2014 4:36:25 AM   
FightingChains


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I don't worry about labels. Most would say I'm an S/M switch.

This is an adaptation of something I told my partner, just to give you context:

quote:

I like it when you overpower me. I feel your strength. I feel how much you want me. You're claiming me. You know I can't help but resist. It's in my nature. But I damned well want you. I won't make this easy for you, but your determination, your power, your drive to have me make me feel better than anything in the world. This damned strong guy wants me, will have me, and that's intoxicating. I'm out of control, but that's the best part, knowing I'm vulnerable to you. Fear and excitement rolled into one.

You tie me up and torture me. Damned I feel like the strongest guy in the world, yet completely helpless to you. Enduring hell. I can see in your eyes you love seeing me this vulnerable, and yet you get off knowing that I won't stop resisting. I won't stop fighting. And I can handle this. Then you whisper in my ear “Take it for me” and I stop resisting. I stand there, chained, completely helpless, seeing that stun gun close in to my flesh, scared shitless I look into your eyes and kiss you. I want to endure it for you. As my mind clears as you let me go, I feel right, knowing I was strong enough. That I could endure that. Its who I am. I'm meant to go through hell, no matter how much I hate it at the time.

The next day I walk in the door after work, and I see you. Damn you look so good. I grab you and slam you into a wall. You're mine, and I'm going to have you. You fight me back. That strength to fight just makes me want you more. I press harder. I want you to feel my need. I need you. You're mine.

I cuff you to the wall, hands above your head facing me, and hear you growl as I grab the baton. One hard, heavy belt across your stomach and I see you lurch forward and fight the restraints. My mind tears between compassion for you, and sheer amazement. That groan pierces me and I hear what you can take. Another blow, just close to it, enough to make you jerk again, and yet the look of anger in your eyes makes me excited… if I let those cuffs go, I'd feel the full force of this warrior. No, I control him. Lets see what he can take. Punches to your chest see you almost break, but you slowly stand. Always fighting back. A knife to your skin, hearing the groan pierce me, the compassion tear at me, the rush knowing I'm in pure unadulterated control. Damn… how fucking awesome are you? That anger, that strength there even when I am making you shout and groan with each blow and wound. A kiss to your gagged mouth and a thumb grinding into your bruise. Yeah, you feel me. You're mine. And I love every inch of you.


< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/15/2014 5:14:59 AM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/15/2014 7:01:12 AM   
OriginalRebel


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I can see where Fighting Chains is coming from. I mean, the reasons he started this topic. Yeah, its been done to death and it will never be resolved but I can understand what FC is trying to get over.

My partner is a switch, I'm not. My partner is a very powerful guy, not just in his line of work but within his own household. Up until meeting him I don't think I've met a guy with such personal strengths. He's known for speaking his mind with people and he has this authority about him that make people stand up straight and listen. He doesn't suffer fools and he doesn't tolerate the inconsiderate actions of others. He's incredibly good looking with a strong face, broad chin and piercing dark eyes. Even his laugh can be intimidating to me and yet I never submit to him, well at least not in this 'lifestyle sense'. I admire him, look up to him and even follow him because he's a fantastic leader but I don't submit to him.

His submissive is just that. She's obedient, loving, devoted and very much in love with 'The Man'. She knows he switches for me and she often says, 'I can't imagine him ever, ever doing this. Doesn't he frighten you in case you get it wrong?'.

He doesn't submit to me. He tried but he was just far too intimidating and so he bottoms to me sometimes. He's a kinky fuck, probably the kinkiest guy I've ever known as well as one of the most sexually confident men on this universe.

This is why I think a lot of this is just such a big heap of bollocks. Its not unusual to see a pathetic dominant, in fact its fairly common. Those men who is so clearly insecure and intimidated by a strong woman, those men in black that walk around BDSM clubs with so many tawses tied to their belts they can't stand up straight and its these very men that would point a finger at my partner and suggest he's playing 'pretend'. Not that my partner would react, I may, but he doesn't waste time with fools.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/20/2014 6:33:13 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AurumArgent

But whether or not you dismiss someone on the basis of the label of "switch" before even bothering to find out just what they mean by that is strictly a function of how many people are available who identify as "sub."

If you have plenty of other options, why take the risk?


You're assuming it's always better to settle than to wait for what will fulfill you.

I disagree.

I was celibate for five years prior to this relationship. It was no hardship. I had no desire to settle for a casual relationship or to get involved with a sub because that would be better than being alone.

If the relationship doesn't totally work for me, I will refuse it.

It isn't supply and demand for all of us. For some of us we simply judge if this is the right relationship for us or not.

FC wants people not to judge but to get to know everyone deeply first. I love the sentiment but judgment is hard wired into people. I think this is a lost cause.

More than that, if I don't want to invest that much time, then that's my choice. I am allowed to judge someone for liking reality shows and decide they aren't compatible with me. Or judge them for being shorter. Or bi. Or a switch.

I don't owe anyone an equal opportunity fuck. I get to decide who I want to be with or not. And if as a result, I lose out on a possibly amazing partner, that's my choice to do so.


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RE: Switch Hatred - 5/20/2014 7:01:51 AM   
FightingChains


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Post deleted.

< Message edited by FightingChains -- 5/20/2014 7:03:05 AM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 12/30/2014 7:41:43 PM   
Kelaina


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I've only seen switch hating online. I think I got an email once accusing me of being fake or something, but I just tell idiots like that to fuck off, because I've got no time to waste listening to them try to justify themselves.

In real life, I've never seen anyone give me (or anyone I knew was a switch) crap about it. It works beautifully for my husband and I, because our relationship is constantly rotating, and my lovers never mind, so I can't bring myself to give a damn about what some whiner thinks.

< Message edited by Kelaina -- 12/30/2014 7:42:33 PM >


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RE: Switch Hatred - 12/31/2014 4:14:32 AM   
AllTheThings


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I'm a switch and I can honestly say that I am only compatible with other switches. It works best in the lifestyle that I crave for....but with that said I used to be 100 percent submissive. That was about 2.5 years ago and things have definitely changed over time. Back then I didn't hate switches, I just figured that they could be as dominate as I wanted them to be. So I really just stayed away from. I'm still wondering how things could have changed if I had talked to a compatible switch sooner.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 12/31/2014 8:06:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FightingChains

I'm not whining. I'm stating that you have shown prejudice, and you have. I don't want a relationship with you or any other.

Why is what she says "prejudiced"? Because you say so? Because others in your like-minded group would say so?

Enjoying someone's company because of who they are but having no interest in them as a partner because of who they are is not prejudice, it's human nature.

I love Bear...we tease each other, we debate on certain political viewpoints, I wish we lived closer because I'd love to be able to enjoy his company in person...but I don't want Bear as a romantic partner. He's gay, I'm not gay or even bi. He may be a great "bottom" but much as I enjoy "topping", I wouldn't enjoy "topping" Bear either. Topping and bottoming have sexual components involved...for me...so I top only women on those rare occasions that I do top. So...am I prejudiced because Bear is my friend but I won't have him or any man as a partner? Am I prejudiced because I "won't even play" with him? No. Because I don't think he's less than me...or anyone else. I think he has every right to be happy in his world as I am in mind. I just don't fit in his world other than as a friend...a good one, we both happen to think.

Spirited sub is not saying there is anything wrong with switch men other than they don't fit in her world as partners she is interested in. I don't have anything against gay men other than as partners for me. Others on here may enjoy people of another color as friends but do not see people of other races as romantic partners. All of this is a choice but it is not necessarily one that stems from prejudice. Prejudice comes about...despite what many think...from a sincere belief that someone is less than you because of something they can't change...skin color, race, sexual orientation. It is not prejudice to not want to be involved with someone who differs from you in ways that are too far off from your core wants and needs. Despite what some people think, a person does NOT have to be open to every new experience that presents itself.

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RE: Switch Hatred - 1/1/2015 8:48:53 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
If you want to attract submissive online, you need to put dominant in your label then. Because no submissive is gonna bother to browse switches, they will be more focus on finding dominants.


quote:


I would expect switches to be browsed by other switches.
But if your goal is to specifically aim to get submissives to contact you, then you should definitely have a pure dominant profile. Because the way they filter their search, they are going to choose "dominant" as a filter, obviously!



Why do some submissives believe everyone else thinks and feels just like they do?

Steve is a switch and everyone knows it. He has no difficulty picking up a submissive. How can that be if "NO submissive" will browse a switch? Why suggest to a switch that they should deceive people with a dominant label?

Steve's "switch" label sorts out the wheat from the chaff. If someones not interested that's fine, move on and if they are interested they will be in touch. Funnily enough the only type he's never dated or even scened with is a switch; not that he wouldn't but he gets more interest from submissives than he does from other switches.


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RE: Switch Hatred - 1/3/2015 2:46:06 AM   
HaremEmperor


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At the end of the day a label is just a label. I have been on here for a long time (under a different name) and I have seen "Doms" who sub, "subs" who dom, and everything in between and I'm sure I'm not the only one that's seen this. Hell I think that for most people, even ones that identify themselves as sub or dom are actually switches. Just that all kinds of factors contribute to how they label themselves now. Maybe they were abused by someone that in their mind was dominant and now they refuse to give anyone that kind of power over them, hence they are now Dom/me. Or all kinds of other things happened, depending on the individual. I try my best to not discriminate or be prejudiced, well maybe except for brussel sprouts, brussel sprouts are just evil demon spawn....just saying....

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