RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"?

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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 3:59:57 AM

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Someone (they oppose the use of firearms for self defense) in another thread argues that if self defense allows you to shoot and kill someone it allows you to (when unarmed) to continue beating a helpless attacker until the are dead. Does anyone else see hypocrisy in this.

No, I actually think it throws into sharp relief the inevitable consequences of believing that citizens should carry guns for "self-defense".

Guns aren't about self-defense. Guns are about power. Americans are addicted to guns because you're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need a weapon to bolster your sense of personal power. Because you lack the essential manhood and masculine approach to the world which gives you that sense of personal power - a personal power based upon your capability, self-belief and approach to life.

The gun makes you feel powerful and you're psychologically addicted to that feeling. That's why you fight tooth and nail to keep your guns - because your entire identity and self-worth is tied up in your possession of a weapon. Without that weapon you know full well you'll feel like a lesser man... not realising of course, that you already are a lesser man.

All of the debate about gun rights is just a smokescreen to cover your fear of having your crutch taken away from you.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 4:11:15 AM

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Someone (they oppose the use of firearms for self defense) in another thread argues that if self defense allows you to shoot and kill someone it allows you to (when unarmed) to continue beating a helpless attacker until the are dead. Does anyone else see hypocrisy in this.

No, I actually think it throws into sharp relief the inevitable consequences of believing that citizens should carry guns for "self-defense".

Guns aren't about self-defense. Guns are about power. Americans are addicted to guns because you're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need a weapon to bolster your sense of personal power. Because you lack the essential manhood and masculine approach to the world which gives you that sense of personal power - a personal power based upon your capability, self-belief and approach to life.

The gun makes you feel powerful and you're psychologically addicted to that feeling. That's why you fight tooth and nail to keep your guns - because your entire identity and self-worth is tied up in your possession of a weapon. Without that weapon you know full well you'll feel like a lesser man... not realising of course, that you already are a lesser man.

All of the debate about gun rights is just a smokescreen to cover your fear of having your crutch taken away from you.

Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 5:46:24 AM

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 10:03:29 AM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally. I understand it's a sickness. As I type this I have a gun in my pocket. I don't expect that if I need it, which I probably never will, that calling a Cop to come and protect me will bring an equivalent outcome to protecting myself. Yet, that is not why I carry a gun. I'm perfectly willing to fend for myself without one. The reason I carry one is because every peer reviewed study shows that the more people who do carry a gun makes it safer for women and children. Bad guys look for weakness to attack. When they can't look out and predict who can fight back, they turn to burglary and car theft.

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to cite many references about women having "their own guns" turned on them, the ones you do find probably won't be peer reviewed. That leftist meme is usually not from studies but from leftist projections of results of studies that aren't really true.

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 10:13:38 AM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally.

You might be right, but as far as I'm aware Awareness is Australian, Nnanji. So your enjoyable theory about Europeans being brought up to believe in feudal social values is irrelevant and I very much fear he's going to call you 'stupid' again.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 10:57:24 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Someone (they oppose the use of firearms for self defense) in another thread argues that if self defense allows you to shoot and kill someone it allows you to (when unarmed) to continue beating a helpless attacker until the are dead. Does anyone else see hypocrisy in this.

No, I actually think it throws into sharp relief the inevitable consequences of believing that citizens should carry guns for "self-defense".

Guns aren't about self-defense. Guns are about power. Americans are addicted to guns because you're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need a weapon to bolster your sense of personal power. Because you lack the essential manhood and masculine approach to the world which gives you that sense of personal power - a personal power based upon your capability, self-belief and approach to life.

The gun makes you feel powerful and you're psychologically addicted to that feeling. That's why you fight tooth and nail to keep your guns - because your entire identity and self-worth is tied up in your possession of a weapon. Without that weapon you know full well you'll feel like a lesser man... not realising of course, that you already are a lesser man.

All of the debate about gun rights is just a smokescreen to cover your fear of having your crutch taken away from you.

All of that is no more than a leftest myth that many of you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
It also follows the "high noon" syndrome of people who are either afraid or unwilling to defend themselves grasp any excuse they can find to claim a serious flaw in those who do so that they can look in the mirror.

I am disappointed in you, while we have always pretty much disagreed you did so without name calling or falling backon some form of "your disageement proves that you are to flawed to talk to".

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/29/2016 11:00:05 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 11:03:41 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally.

You might be right, but as far as I'm aware Awareness is Australian, Nnanji. So your enjoyable theory about Europeans being brought up to believe in feudal social values is irrelevant and I very much fear he's going to call you 'stupid' again.

Most, not all by any means, but most, Austrailians on here as as bad as Europeans.

According to his profile he is from NH, a self hating American.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/29/2016 11:06:14 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 11:09:57 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

That myth is based on a mid 90's CDC study that was so biased and flawed that it counted weapons brought into the home as a gun in the home.
No credible study has those result, however the FBI stats show that forevery firearm used to commit a crime at least 4 are used to prevent them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 1:50:02 PM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally.

You might be right, but as far as I'm aware Awareness is Australian, Nnanji. So your enjoyable theory about Europeans being brought up to believe in feudal social values is irrelevant and I very much fear he's going to call you 'stupid' again.

Thanks Peon. I don't think he's called me stupid yet. He's gotta pop that cherry for me sometime.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 1:51:19 PM

Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

That myth is based on a mid 90's CDC study that was so biased and flawed that it counted weapons brought into the home as a gun in the home.
No credible study has those result, however the FBI stats show that forevery firearm used to commit a crime at least 4 are used to prevent them.

Peer reviewed studies show that women are much safer armed and fighting back.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 2:13:24 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

That myth is based on a mid 90's CDC study that was so biased and flawed that it counted weapons brought into the home as a gun in the home.
No credible study has those result, however the FBI stats show that forevery firearm used to commit a crime at least 4 are used to prevent them.

Peer reviewed studies show that women are much safer armed and fighting back.

Even Blumberg has admitted to 500,000 defensive uses of firearms BY CIVILIANS each year. Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason the has been purged from his site. Could it be that the truth undermines his goals.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 3:39:29 PM

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't.

Let me see if I can understand you. Your believe you've gained a material insight into the world by reading a work of fiction about rabbits. On that basis, I can claim a deep insight into the contents of your mind by perusing a magazine rack outside the local Applebee's.

I hope this trivial example has revealed to you just how stupid your statement is.

quote:

I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom.

First off, the Europeans were doing parliamentary democracy when your country didn't exist, so you're something of a latecomer to the game of self-governance. Perhaps if you had more experience you wouldn't be so ludicrously, delusionally arrogant about your low-rank on the democracy totem pole.

quote:

So, I don't take your hate personally. I understand it's a sickness.

No, hate is an emotion. A psychological addiction to guns is a sickness.

quote:

As I type this I have a gun in my pocket.

Congratulations on your increased risk of firearm death.

quote:

I don't expect that if I need it, which I probably never will, that calling a Cop to come and protect me will bring an equivalent outcome to protecting myself.

Y'see, the stupid thing about this logic is that a firearm is only useful as a negotiating tool if you've drawn first. Which means you need to keep the gun unsecured and loaded - precisely the configuration that's likely to result in the death of you or someone in your household.

Let me guess: You're like those idiot moms who keep their gun in their handbag and are then amazed when their toddler pulls it out and shoots them or another of their children, right?

I'm forced to recall my statement about the depressing stupidity.

quote:

Yet, that is not why I carry a gun. I'm perfectly willing to fend for myself without one. The reason I carry one is because every peer reviewed study shows that the more people who do carry a gun makes it safer for women and children.

No. They do not. The only studies which say that are the ones financed by the NRA - because it's absolute fucking horseshit.

quote:

Bad guys look for weakness to attack. When they can't look out and predict who can fight back, they turn to burglary and car theft.

No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in.

quote:

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to cite many references about women having "their own guns" turned on them, the ones you do find probably won't be peer reviewed. That leftist meme is usually not from studies but from leftist projections of results of studies that aren't really true.

No, they're basically from statistics. You might not like statistics, but they really are your friend.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Nnanji)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 5:20:18 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Did anyone see that woman in an elevator in china beating the shit out of a predator? Well, that is the anecdote that serves as the synecdoche for nutsuckers, your real Joe the Plumber there it is in your face. Boom. No guns.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 6:15:00 PM

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

I would imagine if that were true these boards would be flooded with links proving guns are actually putting women in more danger. But hang on to your delusions, like I said it's amusing to watch you bluster.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 6:16:02 PM

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally.

You might be right, but as far as I'm aware Awareness is Australian, Nnanji. So your enjoyable theory about Europeans being brought up to believe in feudal social values is irrelevant and I very much fear he's going to call you 'stupid' again.

well his profile says he's in New Hampshire but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that's a lie.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 6:18:59 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Nor I

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 6:22:10 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

No. They do not. The only studies which say that are the ones financed by the NRA - because it's absolute fucking horseshit.

Wrong, even Blumberg admitted to over half a million defensive gun uses a year, when they realised that was more than the criminal gun usesthey purged it from the site. Your not going to claim that Bloomberg is a NRAflunky are you?

The studies that have subjected themselves to peer review consistantly show that gun ownership has a deterent effect. The only people to do a major study that falls in line with your beliefs was the Brady Bunch, but the wouldn't submitt to per review or answer any questions about how they got their numbers.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 6:28:50 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in.

Home invaders want your wife, you life, or both.
You are in effect saying that if someone breaks into your home you have to pretend that they don't want to harm anyone, they are compasionate people who have fallen on hard times, and you have no right to protect your property.
If they do turn violent it is solely because you didn't have the common curtesy to run from your home and leaving it to them. Where in the world do you get the idea that they are such nice people?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Awareness)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 7:19:21 PM

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run

but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on.

A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women.

Christ, people are depressingly stupid.

I would imagine if that were true these boards would be flooded with links proving guns are actually putting women in more danger. But hang on to your delusions, like I said it's amusing to watch you bluster.

Links, you say?

From the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence:

"A woman is far more likely to be the victim of a handgun homicide than to use a handgun in a justifiable homicide."

"A study found that for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun."

"When a gun is in the house, an abused woman is 6 times more likely than other abused women to be killed."

"Research indicates that firearms are the most frequently used weapon in domestic violence homicides."

Source

From Harvard Injury Control Research Center, Harvard School of Public Health:

"Across developed nations, where guns are more available, there are more homicides of women. The United States has the most firearms and U.S. women are far more likely to be homicide victims than women in other developed countries."

"Women in states with many guns have elevated rates of unintentional gun deaths, suicides and homicide, particularly firearm suicides and firearm homicides."

Source

"We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns."

"We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense."

Source

"The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns. There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes. On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in."

Source

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/29/2016 7:56:02 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

Kaliko - you make the argument that it is even more important for women to be able to protect themselves.

And yes, women are most likely to be killed by an intimate partner. That does not mean she should not also have protection from home invaders.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Kaliko)

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