quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


I can speak to the subject knowing most men think the same way. I suspect that is good enough for this subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The word being translated as "fornication" is pornia, not moicheia. The literal meaning is sex for material gain, commonly money (Gr. porne, "prostitute"), but in a theological context it includes engaging in sex for purely physical (i.e., material) pleasure. Fornication is a species of idolatry, in which the material replaces or is substituted for the spiritual. Adultery, on the other hand, is purely a legal matter.

Incidentally, this explains why people intuitively recognize "but we love each other" as a spiritually valid defense against the charge of fornication, doctrine to the contrary notwithstanding, and also why it is possible to engage in fornication even within an otherwise technically legal marriage.

Now, wasn't that fun? Thanks for playing.

K.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I have a higher regard for the moral compass we are born with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Not only was it not fun, it was not rational.
Your convoluted definition of fornication dismisses all dictionaries.

Most dictionaries give the modern English definition of the word, not its meaning in a Biblical context.

Most, that is, but not all:
[image]local://upfiles/235229/F59935ECFA49419EA8804CAD25A6A270.jpg[/image]
Source

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

No it is not possible to snivel ones way out of the charge of adultry if one is married and fucking someone they are not married to.

It is also not possible to find anywhere that I said someone could. You have a nice day now.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Whether the Bible truly condemns premarital sex is irrelevant to it being against the OP's morals. She may or may not blame her faith, but the result will still be that she is not comfortable with sex and children before marriage, and this should be respected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

Human beings without the artificial constraints of religion would likely conduct themselves much more like our closest cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos.

My answer to your question is that you should spend a few years being a stupid, reckless kid just like most of the rest of us did and stop worrying about putting yourself or anyone else in that straitjacket.

1.) Complete bullshit. This is to say that atheists and other non-theists behave like animals when this isn't the case. In fact it's just as likely for a non-religious type to act uncivilized because of the lack of a God than it is for a religious person to commit the same crimes because "It's cool, Jesus died for my sins."

Religion is not the only source of morality in humans. And to say that you need religion to be a "good" person makes you NOT a good person.

2.) Perfect advice. Go ahead and compromise your morals, doing everything you think is wrong, because you don't really know what you want yet. Sounds like the OP at least has a clear idea of what she doesn't want, which is just as valid.

Did I really have to explicitly limit myself to sexuality and relationships in my reference to Homo Sapiens' primate cousins? I would have thought the context of the original post would have done that quite nicely without me having to hammer it home like Thor on a bender.

Maybe my second piece of advice was a bit too flippant, so I'll explain it without the sarcasm. How does a person know what they want without experimentation and experience with the wider world? That is the entire point to the maturation point from teenager to adult. In my opinion, and generally agreed upon by experts like psychologists who specialize in the area, that period extends from teens to late twenties. The OP is 20 and barely out of high school, apparently with almost no experience with anything outside of the insular world she was raised in. My advice was actually along the lines the more popular view of the Amish custom of Rumspringa. In short, all I was saying was that the OP should really get to know herself before making a decision that would affect the remainder of her life along with at least one other person's life in one way or another. Without greater life experience, the effects on her life and her intended husband's life (whoever that may be) are most likely going to be profoundly negative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
It is entirely possible for someone to know what they don't want out of life without experiencing it. She should not have to do things she does not want to do in order for her needs to be respected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

... Thus for example...

Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. ~Jeremiah 3:9

But while all adultery is fornication, not all fornication is adultery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

In the Gospels that word "fornication" is also used only in the context of sex with another man's wife. Try reading the Bible rather than doing Google searches if you wish to discuss it.

The word being translated as "fornication" is pornia, not moicheia. The literal meaning is sex for material gain, commonly money (Gr. porne, "prostitute"), but in a theological context it includes engaging in sex for purely physical (i.e., material) pleasure. Fornication is a species of idolatry, in which the material replaces or is substituted for the spiritual. Adultery, on the other hand, is purely a legal matter.

Incidentally, this explains why people intuitively recognize "but we love each other" as a spiritually valid defense against the charge of fornication, doctrine to the contrary notwithstanding, and also why it is possible to engage in fornication even within an otherwise technically legal marriage.

Now, wasn't that fun? Thanks for playing.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Firstly you claimed that my exegesis of fornication constitutes a "definition," and secondly that my so-called definition "dismisses all dictionaries." But that wasn't true. You were just making shit up. And now you want to keep digging?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

This statement

"No it is not possible to snivel ones way out of the charge of adultry if one is married and fucking someone they are not married to."

and this statement

Incidentally, this explains why people intuitively recognize "but we love each other" as a spiritually valid defense against the charge of fornication, doctrine to the contrary notwithstanding, and also why it is possible to engage in fornication even within an otherwise technically legal marriage.

are equvilant statements.

No they're not. I didn't say anything about escaping a charge of adultery. You're just making shit up again. The Bible views idolatry broadly, and both fornication and adultery as forms of it. Thus for example...

Because Israel's immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. ~Jeremiah 3:9

But while all adultery is fornication, not all fornication is adultery. That's shouldn't be too difficult to grasp, but if you require further assistance see here.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

C'mon guys.... put the testosterone away please.
3 pages of waffle - mostly arguing about words.

PPFFFFFTTT!!!

Read the OP's first post.
They are strongly christian and believe sex before marriage is not right.
Their Dom wants sex but not marriage or a family.

So the OP is asking whether they should turn their back on their faith or drop their Dom.

...and we get 3 pages of waffle about certain words and what they mean to certain people.
Who gives a flying fuck?? It doesn't answer OP's dilema.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

It was really just a roundabout way of trying to convince the OP that she should compromise her morals and sleep around.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

It was really just a roundabout way of trying to convince the OP that she should compromise her morals and sleep around.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not how we interpreted this information.
OP is conflicted. She should most assuredly NOT compromise herself for a Dom who has no honorable intent towards her.
He is not planning to make a future with her as a life partner; he has no intention of settling down.
Under these circumstances, while her emotions are clouding her judgment, she needs to make a stand for herself.

She can do much better than this relationship-wise, and she deserves better.
No Dominant is worth sacrificing your Faith for, the point being she should not settle for less than what she wants from her pair-bonded mate.

One she has found her future husband, one who DOES want to make her his wife, then
what she needs to consider is that it would NOT be sinful to have sexual relations when both partners truly love one another.
It is enduring and abiding love which makes the difference, as opposed to fleeting lusts.

Not to steer this into a religious discussion, but Mary being with child while espoused to Joseph was not considered sinful fornication.
Neither was she subject to being stoned for adultery or cast out into the wilderness.
The question of Mary's small-village reputation has to do with whether she was with child with her future husband's legitimate seed or could have been perpetrating a deception with some other man's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
I think you missed every single one of my posts.

I was referring to the three pages of discussion on what fornication was according to the Bible.
It stemmed from someone insisting that premarital sex was not a sin, and in the same post encouraging her to experiment because she didn't know what she wanted.

Don't accuse me of steering the topic into religious territory when that was already done for me. In fact, I was one of the people encouraging her to stick to her guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears

OP is conflicted. She should most assuredly NOT compromise herself for a Dom who has no honorable intent towards her.
He is not planning to make a future with her as a life partner; he has no intention of settling down.
Under these circumstances, while her emotions are clouding her judgment, she needs to make a stand for herself.

She can do much better than this relationship-wise, and she deserves better.
No Dominant is worth sacrificing your Faith for, the point being she should not settle for less than what she wants from her pair-bonded mate.