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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:09:44 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Funny thing there, Mari. I'll stipulate that there aren't a whole lot of conservatives who have quite the lefty background and upbringing that I do, but I'm going to say that as a general rule, a garden variety conservative is going to have a better understanding of liberal thought than your garden variety liberal has of what conservatives believe. Liberalism is the dominant paradigm of the entertainment industry, mainstream media, and academia. It's mighty hard to avoid getting the gist of it.


The fact that you can write something like this means that you don't know conservatives, or rather what passes for conservatives these days. The fact that 'conservatives' use liberal as an epithet or that anything they disagree with comes out as "liberal" with a sneer says a lot. Because the GOP has been taken over by the crackpots, the religious right and the modern day equivalent of the John Birch Society, things that were once mainstream conservative thought has become "liberal" with a sneer. Most liberals know what conservative thought is, and more importantly, they also know that what is called conservative today is basically the crackpot right wing. My next door neighbor is a lifelong conservative, he doesn't believe in big government, he doesn't believe the government can solve everything, he doesn't think that regulation always is the answer to things, and he thinks libertarian ideals are some of the better ways to go......but he also for the first time ever had a sign out in both elections supporting Obama and he said he has voted democratic for senator, because he said that the National GOP has been taken over by crackpots like the tea party (the man I am talking about has an MBA, was a corporate executive in the telecom industry) and their idiotic notions of economics, or worse, the bible thumpers who bleat about liberty but want to force their religious beliefs on everyone else, and worse, the Sarah Palin/Michelle Bachman/Rick Perry small town, rural idea that somehow we should elect a president or congress that is dumber than a mud fence, because someone like that is a 'real American'........Both William F Buckley and Goldwater said that if the loony right took over the party, it would no longer be the party of conservative thought, but the party of morons, and that is pretty much what the GOP has become and sadly what conservatism has become along with it. Put it this way, it is so bad even the American people realize it, when asked about the GOP and what it stands for, a large percentage of the population said that the GOP stands for nothing, they have no ideas, that all they do is bash Democrats but can't come up with any ideas of their own, and ironically, this is what some of the big conservative think tanks are saying as well. Bobby Jindal is no heavyweight in the brain department, but he has said outright that the GOP cannot seem to come up with ideas, and that they are more and more being seen as the party of stupid, not the party of ideas. If that is the case, then liberals cannot know what conservatives are thinking, because quite frankly right now it doesn't look like they are thinking at all, they seem to have dragged themselves down to the level of the idiots that make up their base.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:21:57 PM   
njlauren


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Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Who on FOX News lies, joe. FOX News isn't one person, there are many people and shows that make up FOX News - and they can't all be nearly as lowly as the crew at MSNBC

And while all the far left channels were idolizing, revering, worshiping and licking the feet of "The One" perhaps its good if one network remained grounded and didn't spew DNC propaganda 24/7. Many leftists (even here on collarchat) are only now beginning to realize that many of the pundits on FOX have been correct all along, and that our little big-eared community organizer is nowhere near presidential material and he is far from ready for his prime time gig

As to the article TheHeretic linked to, the following paragraph made me laugh out loud:

quote:

Or take the Los Angeles Times‘ David Savage, who argued just last week that the Supreme Court’s decisions under Chief Justice John Roberts “rely on well-established rights, such as freedom of speech and free exercise of religion, but extend those rights for the first time to corporations, wealthy donors and conservatives.” Perhaps it’s just poorly written. Surely a man who has been responsible for informing Californians about the Supreme Court since 1986 doesn’t actually believe that conservatives, corporations or wealthy donors were not covered by the Bill of Rights until John Roberts came along. As James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal notes, “that is as ignorant as it is tendentious.”




Um, actually, until Citizens United, Corporations were not covered by the Bill of RIghts, court precedent for the past 200 years before Citizens united has held that corporations are not people and as such, don't have the same rights. For example, a corporation cannot claim free speech, or at least hasn't been able to up until this point, and among other things, it is why the FTC can regulate claims made in advertising, because corporations have no right of free speech. Likewise, corporations had no right of freedom of religion because they were not a person and thus were not covered by the Bill of Rights. As has been the tack of the right wing of Scotus, they have totally ignore Stare Decis and have overturned more long held law then any other court in US history. If he really said that about conservatives, he is wrong, or about wealthy donors. I am assuming with 'wealthy donors' he is talking about campaign contributions, and that one as a free speech issue is dicey. The issue there isn't whether wealthy donors are covered by freedom of speech, they are, it is whether campaign contributions as free speech can have boundaries and limitations on it, because of harm. A well off donor can afford a lot more speech and that can affect elections and influence things in a way that violates the idea of democratic elections, using the same kind of reasoning of harm that underlies not being able to yell fire in a movie theater. But yes, well off donors and conservatives are covered by the bill of rights since they are people, but savage is correct about corporations, SCOTUS for almost 200 year has said that corporations are not people, and the decision to make them people has consequences far beyond citizen united or hobby lobby, it could be a throwback to 19th century practices, and i think a lot of the people who cheer corporations as people are gonna find out good and hard what it means to them. Among other things, it could mean that safety regulations get thrown out, that truth in advertising gets thrown out, and the basic answer is 'don't like what they advertised? Sue them" (of course, leaving out that corporations ability in terms of going to court pales against what a person can bring).

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:27:52 PM   
njlauren


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Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
I'll take the crook any day)


Don't tell me, let me guess - you're an Obama /Reid / Pelosi person

No, I am the lesser of two evils. If choosing between a candidate telling me the rich are job creators and everyone else is a parasite, and someone who at least claims to care about anyone other than the 1%, I'll take the latter. If you ask me to choose between a candidate who understands what science is, versus a candidate who supports the idea that the earth was created in 6 days by God as science, I'll take the first one. It isn't that I am a supporter of Reid/Obama/Pelosi per se, it is that the GOP is putting up the modern day equivalents of Williams Jenning Bryan and Gomer Pyle or worse, disciples of Ayn Rand, so I hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. I never thought I would see the day that someone running for Senate in NJ could actually say things like we ought to ban same sex marriage via the constitution, or hear a serious candidate say that it is okay to cut 15 billion from food stamps but that we should increase defense spending and the size of farm subsidies, too.....if that is the best the GOP can offer me, I'll take the crook, at least with him I can figure the kind of damage he can do, put a GOP senator in with the rednecks, the bible thumpers and the Koch brothers owned ones, and God help us all.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:33:18 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: PandoraFoxxx

Banning guns will no more stop gun violence than Prohibition stopped the drunk and disorderly.

Except that it has... They have demonstrably managed to stop a HUGE amount of gun violence.

according to Samara McPhedran, a University of Sydney academic and coauthor of a soon-to-be-published paper that reviews a selection of previous studies on the effects of the 1996 legislation... the answer "is there in black and white," she says. "The hypothesis that the removal of a large number of firearms owned by civilians [would lead to fewer gun-related deaths] is not borne out by the evidence." Firearm homicides in Australia were declining before 1996 and the decline has simply continued at the same rate since, McPhedran says. ~Time

The 1996-97 National Firearms Agreement (NFA) in Australia introduced strict gun laws... In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates. ~Melbourne Institute

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/9/2014 10:51:10 PM >

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:37:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Rich, the thing is---- when I tune in to "the other side", I normally don't hear any REAL or viable long term strategies or solutions.
Lately, I hear more blaming, blasting, and condemning coming from the conservatives/republican/those on the right, than anything else.



It depends on where you are tuning in to, Mari. There is a common tactic among the mainstream media that I refer to as "strawman by proxy." They will find the biggest douchebag in the room, and present that person/idea as representative, and give him/her/it all the airtime. I didn't know one person I held in anything but contempt who embraced all that birth certificate nonsense, but how much airtime and text did the birthers get? Did you notice Sarah Palin being pulled out of the drawer this week? When genuinely conservative ideas do make it into the conversation, they are invariably attacked and mischaracterized, without ever really being illustrated, or discussed on their own merits.

I'll add that there are a hell of a lot of things going on in the running of our government that freaking well need some blaming, blasting, and condemning. Hobby Lobby may have been a 5-4 split, but the Court was unanimous in slapping down the President's power grab with the "recess" appointments.



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(in reply to Marini)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:41:32 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

No, I am the lesser of two evils.


Yeah, you sound real middle-of-the-road

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 10:42:05 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry, Lauren, but your buckets of wallpaper paste bore the shit out of me. I get up in the morning.


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/9/2014 11:13:13 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What is this "Drudge," Joether? It certainly isn't something that comes up in any of the newsfeeds I check in with.



Google is your friend. Click Here

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 12:55:34 AM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Funny thing there, Mari. I'll stipulate that there aren't a whole lot of conservatives who have quite the lefty background and upbringing that I do, but I'm going to say that as a general rule, a garden variety conservative is going to have a better understanding of liberal thought than your garden variety liberal has of what conservatives believe. Liberalism is the dominant paradigm of the entertainment industry, mainstream media, and academia. It's mighty hard to avoid getting the gist of it.


Now that's odd. There are quite a few liberals who have quite the conservative background and upbringing that I do, and most of them would say that as a general rule, a garden variety conservative is going to have about the same understanding of liberal thought than your garden variety liberal has of what conservatives believe.

That's not actually true here on the boards, mind you - but let's face it this section boards isn't much of a cross section of mainstream political opinion.



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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 1:37:13 AM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline 		Ayn Rand was 100% pro-abortion and an atheist. Perhaps you are confusing her with Rick Santorum.

Whom do you think creates jobs? The poor? Exactly where does the money come from that funds these companies? People who made money and who have money and who take risks to make even more money.

Why is it that antithetical philosophies in geographically identical areas result in antithetical results -- i.e., West Germany and the East Germany? Could it have been the differences in the economic systems perhaps?

As far as the Earth's being created in 6 days -- that's about the same as saying in the 1970s that the planet was facing and impending ice age and that today global warming is going to kill us all. They're both pseudo-science.

Defense spending made lower? It's already low. But if you'd like to see the "benefits" of low defense spending, I suggest you look the Britain's navy circa the late 1930s and the good that did them; or you could simply look around the world today and see how our LordGodObama is perceived by our enemies (laughable) and friends (contemptible).

The Koch Brothers? Rich, free-market guys who don't want your money or mine, unless we choose to buy their products. George Soros? Who's he? The fact that he is hypocritical, wealth-confiscating, insider-trading cheat doesn't matter since his billions support the left.

No one is going to ban same-sex marriage via the constitution any more than Lister's germ theory is going to banned. That's political talk and prattle, well unless of course the Muslim Brotherhood that Obama so loves takes a greater part in our country in which case there will be no need to ban same-sex marriage since all gays will simply be executed. Instead of easy targets such as opponents of gay marriage, I suggest leftists focus their targets on the shari'a advocates and Muslims who want to execute gays. Just a bit of a difference there and, dressed in your niqab, it will be pretty hard to stop those executions.


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
I'll take the crook any day)


Don't tell me, let me guess - you're an Obama /Reid / Pelosi person

No, I am the lesser of two evils. If choosing between a candidate telling me the rich are job creators and everyone else is a parasite, and someone who at least claims to care about anyone other than the 1%, I'll take the latter. If you ask me to choose between a candidate who understands what science is, versus a candidate who supports the idea that the earth was created in 6 days by God as science, I'll take the first one. It isn't that I am a supporter of Reid/Obama/Pelosi per se, it is that the GOP is putting up the modern day equivalents of Williams Jenning Bryan and Gomer Pyle or worse, disciples of Ayn Rand, so I hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. I never thought I would see the day that someone running for Senate in NJ could actually say things like we ought to ban same sex marriage via the constitution, or hear a serious candidate say that it is okay to cut 15 billion from food stamps but that we should increase defense spending and the size of farm subsidies, too.....if that is the best the GOP can offer me, I'll take the crook, at least with him I can figure the kind of damage he can do, put a GOP senator in with the rednecks, the bible thumpers and the Koch brothers owned ones, and God help us all.


(in reply to njlauren)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 4:20:46 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		well done Rich....
now are you gonna lick the spoon???

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(in reply to subrosaDom)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 4:37:04 AM   
thursdays


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< Message edited by thursdays -- 7/10/2014 4:38:31 AM >

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 4:39:29 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[Posted from the correct account this time, sorry.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

Ayn Rand was 100% pro-abortion and an atheist. Perhaps you are confusing her with Rick Santorum.


Can we agree that neither of them are representative of "mainstream" conservatism?

quote:



Whom do you think creates jobs? The poor? Exactly where does the money come from that funds these companies? People who made money and who have money and who take risks to make even more money.


If you reread her post, you'll see that she doesn't make the claim that the top 1% don't create the jobs. She makes, the not unreasonable, point that it's wrong to dismiss the lower paid, and the very real contribution that they make to economies.



quote:



Why is it that antithetical philosophies in geographically identical areas result in antithetical results -- i.e., West Germany and the East Germany? Could it have been the differences in the economic systems perhaps?

You're comparing a socialist state (East Germany) and a very left leaning social democracy (West Germany).

There's a very important distinction - Socialism is very closely related to Marxism in which the state owns and controls the means of production. Very few, even very liberal, liberals regard socialism as a workable, sensible way to run an economy. Just as very few, even very conservative, conservatives think that the unfettered oligarchy in Russia is a particularly healthy model either.

quote:



As far as the Earth's being created in 6 days -- that's about the same as saying in the 1970s that the planet was facing and impending ice age and that today global warming is going to kill us all. They're both pseudo-science.



Hmm.. The first of those is dogma not science. The second, whether you agree with it or disagree, is science.

quote:



Defense spending made lower? It's already low. But if you'd like to see the "benefits" of low defense spending, I suggest you look the Britain's navy circa the late 1930s and the good that did them; or you could simply look around the world today and see how our LordGodObama is perceived by our enemies (laughable) and friends (contemptible).



The reduction in British naval power was a result, not a cause, of our decline.

quote:



The Koch Brothers? Rich, free-market guys who don't want your money or mine, unless we choose to buy their products. George Soros? Who's he? The fact that he is hypocritical, wealth-confiscating, insider-trading cheat doesn't matter since his billions support the left.

No one is going to ban same-sex marriage via the constitution any more than Lister's germ theory is going to banned. That's political talk and prattle, well unless of course the Muslim Brotherhood that Obama so loves takes a greater part in our country in which case there will be no need to ban same-sex marriage since all gays will simply be executed. Instead of easy targets such as opponents of gay marriage, I suggest leftists focus their targets on the shari'a advocates and Muslims who want to execute gays. Just a bit of a difference there and, dressed in your niqab, it will be pretty hard to stop those executions.



I am pretty sure that most liberals I know are genuinely concerned about the rise of fundamentalist Islam. I'm also quite sure that you'll struggle to find any evidence to support your assertion that Obama loves the muslim brotherhood.



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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 4:41:03 AM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Sorry, Lauren, but your buckets of wallpaper paste bore the shit out of me. I get up in the morning.


IOW, you got nothing.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 5:14:58 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		From Mad Magazine's "The Fifty Worst Things About America."






Attachment (1)

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 5:29:41 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Hobby Lobby may have been a 5-4 split, but the Court was unanimous in slapping down the President's power grab with the "recess" appointments.



Well, no. Recess appointments are still fine. Rather, the Court decided that even a bullshit session is still a session.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 6:33:01 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Obama's own appointees?

The only BS is that spewed by Obama apologists such as yourself

Oh yeah, you never heard of the guy... Thats right

I keep forgetting

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 6:50:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, keep drinking the imbecilic tonic. Which appointees have had to leave due to the SCOTUS ruling?

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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 6:54:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

A while back, I started a thread pointing out the commonplace ignorance of guns among the anti-gun crowd.

A humorous case in point...



K.




Enlighten me, please.

In what way is this "ignorant"?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: The ignorance of liberals - 7/10/2014 7:50:36 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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I don't know much about guns. I have a hard time imaging the rational reasons for owning an assault weapon, etc. Maybe you could explain it to me.

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