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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 2:56:12 PM   
crazyml


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Oh fuck. You don't actually understand sarcasm do you?

You see, my reply to you assumed you were being sarcastic.

Now it seems that you really don't know how to wield sarcasm properly. Fair enough.



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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 3:47:28 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The funny thing about that is that for the longest time the Arabs that live in Israel did not consider themselves Palestinians and participated fully in the political life of Israel yet many of those Arabs would have come from the exact same communities as the so called Palestinian refugees supposedly languishing in camps these many years.



Not true Ken. Some eighty percent of Palestinians left or were expelled in 1948. many after a massacre of Arabs carried out by the Irgun.

I never wrote how many stayed versus left. Just that those that stayed call themselves Arabs not Palestinians and have full rights in Israel. Is there any Arab state where Jews have full civil rights?

Take it a step further is there any Arab state were Arabs have full civil rights?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 3:49:57 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oh fuck. You don't actually understand sarcasm do you?

You see, my reply to you assumed you were being sarcastic.

Now it seems that you really don't know how to wield sarcasm properly. Fair enough.



And your seem to fit the tagline of one of our regulars, having lost your sense of humor you have developed an inflated since of self importance.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 3:53:44 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The funny thing about that is that for the longest time the Arabs that live in Israel did not consider themselves Palestinians and participated fully in the political life of Israel yet many of those Arabs would have come from the exact same communities as the so called Palestinian refugees supposedly languishing in camps these many years.



Not true Ken. Some eighty percent of Palestinians left or were expelled in 1948. many after a massacre of Arabs carried out by the Irgun.

I never wrote how many stayed versus left. Just that those that stayed call themselves Arabs not Palestinians and have full rights in Israel. Is there any Arab state where Jews have full civil rights?


So you agree it was, at best a handful ?

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 4:26:55 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The funny thing about that is that for the longest time the Arabs that live in Israel did not consider themselves Palestinians and participated fully in the political life of Israel yet many of those Arabs would have come from the exact same communities as the so called Palestinian refugees supposedly languishing in camps these many years.



Not true Ken. Some eighty percent of Palestinians left or were expelled in 1948. many after a massacre of Arabs carried out by the Irgun.

I never wrote how many stayed versus left. Just that those that stayed call themselves Arabs not Palestinians and have full rights in Israel. Is there any Arab state where Jews have full civil rights?


So you agree it was, at best a handful ?


It was around two hundred thousand which is not a handful.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 4:29:47 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Is there any Arab state where Jews have full civil rights?


Which of those arab states were carved out of israel?



Take it a step further is there any Arab state were Arabs have full civil rights?

Why do you feel that other countries need to conform to your opinions?


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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 4:43:50 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It was around two hundred thousand which is not a handful.


But still only one in five.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/18/2014 6:08:13 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Lets look at shit here should we? Native Americans owned 100% of the land, we waltz in all of a sudden we own 96% and they maybe 4%. So, how much you own? Lets take 90% of that away from ya, whatta ya say? You seem to think it is a right brilliant fuckin deal, apparently.



They tried and lost...



When did they try that?



Please.... Anglo-Powhatan Wars, Pequot War, King Philip's War, King Williams's War, Pontiac's War, the French and Indian War, Northwest Indian War, Tecumseh's War, Creek Wars, Cherokee-American Wars, Black Hawk War, Seminole Wars...I left out several I know and that's just the Eastern Wars prior to the Civil War....

Shall we head West???

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 12:19:34 AM   
tweakabelle


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"The idea that Israel is defending itself against unprovoked attacks from outside its borders is an absurdity. Despite Israel’s withdrawal of settlements and bases in 2005, Gaza remains occupied both in reality and international law, its border, coastal waters, resources, airspace and power supply controlled by Israel.

So the Palestinians of Gaza are an occupied people, like those in the West Bank, who have the right to resist, by force if they choose – though not deliberately to target civilians. But Israel does not have a right of self-defence over territories it illegally occupies – it has an obligation to withdraw. That occupation, underpinned by the US and its allies, is now entering its 48th year. Most of the 1.8 million Palestinians enduring continuous bombardment in Gaza are themselves refugees or their descendants, who were driven out or fled from cities such as Jaffa 66 years ago when Israel was established[
/i]."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/16/gaza-shameful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/19/2014 12:20:06 AM >


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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 1:19:13 AM   
crazyml


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Shrugs

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 4:40:09 AM   
PeonForHer


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From your link:

"Despite heroic Israeli efforts to fix the narrative, global opinion has never been more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. "

Yes. Difficult to quantify, of course - but I do get that feeling.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 9:37:39 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The main problem was not the idea of a homeland for Jewish people, but the location that they picked. I suppose if there's anyone to "blame" for the situation, it would be the Romans for kicking the Jews out of that territory in the first place.


An often mistaken concept. The diaspora began with the Babylonian captivity, if not before:

As early as the middle of the 2nd century BCE the Jewish author of the third book of the Oracula Sibyllina addressed the "chosen people," saying: "Every land is full of thee and every sea." The most diverse witnesses, such as Strabo, Philo, Seneca, Luke (the author of the Acts of the Apostles), Cicero, and Josephus, all mention Jewish populations in the cities of the Mediterranean basin. See also History of the Jews in India and History of the Jews in China for pre-Roman (and post-) diasporic populations. King Agrippa I, in a letter to Caligula, enumerated among the provinces of the Jewish diaspora almost all the Hellenized and non-Hellenized countries of the Orient. This enumeration was far from complete as Italy and Cyrene were not included. The epigraphic discoveries from year to year augment the number of known Jewish communities but must be viewed with caution due to the lack of precise evidence of their numbers. According to the ancient Jewish historian Josephus, the next most dense Jewish population after the Land of Israel and Babylonia was in Syria, particularly in Antioch, and Damascus, where 10,000 to 18,000 Jews were massacred during the great insurrection. The ancient Jewish philosopher Philo gives the number of Jewish inhabitants in Egypt as one million, one-eighth of the population. Alexandria was by far the most important of the Egyptian Jewish communities. The Jews in the Egyptian diaspora were on a par with their Ptolemaic counterparts and close ties existed for them with Jerusalem. As in other Hellenistic diasporas, the Egyptian diaspora was one of choice not of imposition.[9]

The Jewish uprisings around Jerusalem were mostly attempts by Hasidim zealots (the "pious ones") against secularization by Hellenistic (Greek) culture. Greek was the predominant language of secularized Jews. A Gymnasium was built near the Temple, using Temple funds, where men could study and play naked. Temples to "Zeus" were erected to accept sacrifices. I put the name of Zeus in quotes because Hellenistic culture had pretty much abandoned the Hellenic concept of personified gods. It is difficult to read the history of the Jews between the Babylonian Captivity and the destruction of the second Temple by the Romans without concluding they were lead by orthodox zealots. The Hellenistic Greeks had a great affinity for the "people of the book." That is why the Torah was translated into Greek and housed in the great library at Alexandria.
Early Diaspora

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/19/2014 10:02:13 AM >

(in reply to Zonie63)
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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 9:39:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Lets look at shit here should we? Native Americans owned 100% of the land, we waltz in all of a sudden we own 96% and they maybe 4%. So, how much you own? Lets take 90% of that away from ya, whatta ya say? You seem to think it is a right brilliant fuckin deal, apparently.



They tried and lost...



When did they try that?



Please.... Anglo-Powhatan Wars, Pequot War, King Philip's War, King Williams's War, Pontiac's War, the French and Indian War, Northwest Indian War, Tecumseh's War, Creek Wars, Cherokee-American Wars, Black Hawk War, Seminole Wars...I left out several I know and that's just the Eastern Wars prior to the Civil War....

Shall we head West???


Yup, Fats, epic fail. Who has tried to take 90% of our land away from us?


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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 10:00:19 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

"The idea that Israel is defending itself against unprovoked attacks from outside its borders is an absurdity. Despite Israel’s withdrawal of settlements and bases in 2005, Gaza remains occupied both in reality and international law, its border, coastal waters, resources, airspace and power supply controlled by Israel.


The current Israeli attack against Gaza is loaded with irony given the existence of a recorded emergency call by one of the kidnapped boys while in the back seat of the car, followed by what sound like muffled gunshots. The IDF knew of the call the following day and yet went on an eighteen day rampage against the Palestinians of the West Bank. Eighteen days of arrests and home invasions searching for the boys , a time during which the Israeli authorities had pretty good evidence that the boys were already dead.

During those eighteen days there was a great outcry from the Israeli Right condemning Hamas with collective guilt. Three murders by two individuals were ramped up into an attack against the State by incessant propaganda.

The Palestinian pov is that Israel revoked the cease fire of 2012 by attacking in the WB.

Emergency Call

How the War started:

Third, regarding the current mutual bombardment. Here’s where the series of accidents and misunderstandings kicked in. When Israel began rounding up Hamas-West Bank, amid declarations from Bibi that Hamas “will pay,” the Hamas leadership in Gaza went underground and began gearing up for a renewed Gaza war that they feared — incorrectly, I believe — that Israel was planning. Going underground meant abandoning their earnest-but-not-always-competent enforcement of the 2012 cease-fire. The result was a sudden, drastic increase in rocket fire from PRC, Islamic Jihad and the Qaeda-style jihadis to its right. Israel responded with several aerial attacks on rocket crews.

But on June 29 Israel hit a Hamas operative, who was not involved in rocket fire but by some reports part of the enforcement squads. Hamas publicly protested the assassination of its guy and responded the next morning with a barrage of its own rockets. These were by every account the first rockets Hamas had fired since the 2012 cease-fire. Israel responded to the rockets with air raids, and things escalated from there. Neither side wanted it, but neither wants to quit first. Usually these campaigns end when the Egyptians come up with a formula that allows both sides to claim some sort of victory.

The beginning

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 2:36:43 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

You left out racism.

Thank you for that update.


Sweet Jesus. Righties will unfailingly squeal, so consistently and so shrilly that it perforates our eardrums, that every time the word 'racism' comes up it's a case of 'political correctness'. But, for feck's sake, was there ever a clearer and more naked case of racism than this? Israelis are solid, suit-wearing, wholesome, white toothed, Hannah Montana-loving, clean-living and ordinary "people". Palestinians, on the other hand, are subhuman, demented primitives with an alien, nutty religion and unpronounceable names.


< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/19/2014 2:37:55 PM >


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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 3:00:31 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Sweet Jesus. Righties will unfailingly squeal, so consistently and so shrilly that it perforates our eardrums, that every time the word 'racism' comes up it's a case of 'political correctness'. But, for feck's sake, was there ever a clearer and more naked case of racism than this? Israelis are solid, suit-wearing, wholesome, white toothed, Hannah Montana-loving, clean-living and ordinary "people". Palestinians, on the other hand, are subhuman, demented primitives with an alien, nutty religion and unpronounceable names.

Not many Jews in England I take it. ;)

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 4:01:35 PM   
PeonForHer


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No, not that many. Nowhere near enough to have the political clout that they have in the USA, anyway.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 4:24:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

You left out racism.

Thank you for that update.


Sweet Jesus. Righties will unfailingly squeal, so consistently and so shrilly that it perforates our eardrums, that every time the word 'racism' comes up it's a case of 'political correctness'. But, for feck's sake, was there ever a clearer and more naked case of racism than this? Israelis are solid, suit-wearing, wholesome, white toothed, Hannah Montana-loving, clean-living and ordinary "people". Palestinians, on the other hand, are subhuman, demented primitives with an alien, nutty religion and unpronounceable names.


Let us pretend that this absurd typecasting is reversed. Would it then be ok for Jews to exterminate Arabs?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 4:54:05 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

You left out racism.

Thank you for that update.


Sweet Jesus. Righties will unfailingly squeal, so consistently and so shrilly that it perforates our eardrums, that every time the word 'racism' comes up it's a case of 'political correctness'. But, for feck's sake, was there ever a clearer and more naked case of racism than this? Israelis are solid, suit-wearing, wholesome, white toothed, Hannah Montana-loving, clean-living and ordinary "people". Palestinians, on the other hand, are subhuman, demented primitives with an alien, nutty religion and unpronounceable names.


Let us pretend that this absurd typecasting is reversed. Would it then be ok for Jews to exterminate Arabs?


Absurd typcasting ?....... Its hardly that reading some of the right wing crap posted here.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 7/19/2014 4:55:54 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Let us pretend that this absurd typecasting is reversed. Would it then be ok for Jews to exterminate Arabs?


No idea what you're getting at there, Bama.

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