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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 7:56:48 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Yes indeed. But there is a need to identify why people reacted with such anger. Riots do not happen for the fun of it, they are not merely cover for other crimes such as theft and looting, they are usually the result of long standing grievances being ignored or left resolved by the authorities.

People who feel they have a stake in the system don't riot. People who feel their voices are being heard do not resort to violence to make their points. The trigger that sparked the riot is not a cause but a consequence, best seen as the straw that broke the camel's back.

Unless people take a longer deeper view of civilian unrest, they are running the risk of more of the same in the future.


--an 18-year-old black student from Ferguson, Mo., who was a few days from heading off to college, was shot by a police officer on Saturday. He was unarmed.

--St. Louis has long been one of the nation’s most segregated metropolitan areas, and there remains a high wall between black residents — who overwhelmingly have lower incomes — and the white power structure that dominates City Councils and police departments like the ones in Ferguson.

--Until the late 1940s, blacks weren’t allowed to live in most suburban St. Louis County towns, kept out by restrictive covenants that the Supreme Court prohibited in 1948.

--As whites began to flee the city for the county in the 1950s and ’60s, they used exclusionary zoning tactics — including large, single-family lot requirements that prohibited apartment buildings — to prevent blacks from moving in. Within the city, poverty and unrest grew.

--In 1980, the town was 85 percent white and 14 percent black; by 2010, it was 29 percent white and 69 percent black. But blacks did not gain political power as their numbers grew.

--The mayor and the police chief are white, as are five of the six City Council members. The school board consists of six white members and one Hispanic.

--black residents, lacking the wealth to buy property, move from apartment to apartment and have not put down political roots

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/14/2014 7:59:05 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 8:19:26 AM   
cloudboy


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You forgot the idea of simply shooting the rioters. That might serve as a stiff deterrent. Paul Bremer actually suggested having the US forces in Iraq shoot the looters.

Funny how many don't see rioting as a symptom.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 8:20:22 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Compare the police response in Ferguson to that in Bunkerville. Funny how if its a bunch of black guys breaking some laws they get the full police state treatment but when it is a bunch of white guys breaking the law they get kid gloves.

and that makes rioting ok?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 8:22:48 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Compare the police response in Ferguson to that in Bunkerville. Funny how if its a bunch of black guys breaking some laws they get the full police state treatment but when it is a bunch of white guys breaking the law they get kid gloves.

different departments, different situations

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 9:17:40 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Compare the police response in Ferguson to that in Bunkerville. Funny how if its a bunch of black guys breaking some laws they get the full police state treatment but when it is a bunch of white guys breaking the law they get kid gloves.

and that makes rioting ok?

Does what happened Sunday night make the police response since ok?

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 10:16:06 AM   
crazyml


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FR

Now I would have expected the rightist mouth breathers to be hailing the rioters as the new minute men, very proof that the 2nd amendment is essential.

Oh but no. .. I am guessing the right to rise up against armed state oppression only applies to a certain type of person.

So what is it about these people that makes them the wrong type?

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(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 10:17:32 AM   
mnottertail


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They are not all carrying guns into the local starbucks?

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 10:54:28 AM   
DomKen


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The police over reaction has been so extreme that the local police has been relieved of duty.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-14/st-louis-county-police-to-be-removed-from-ferguson-clay.html

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 10:54:54 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Now I would have expected the rightist mouth breathers to be hailing the rioters as the new minute men, very proof that the 2nd amendment is essential.


Which really just says everything about your ignorance about those on the right.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:03:32 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Ours did and it wasn't what you seem to think it would have been.
Your refusal to take a "moral position" is what I was referring to. You may not see that a moral equivalence, but no one practicing it does.


I did take a moral position. As I've said, I cannot support savagery. But, and I'll make this point one, final time: the morals of all this are *secondary* to finding a solution to it. That was, at long, long last, discovered here. If you and others absolutely insist on limiting it to the moral debate, well, have at it. Keep on going till you're bored and feel satisfyingly smug enough, then wait till the next riot, when you can do the same thing all over again. Fun!

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:16:57 AM   
altoonamaster


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if you steal or damage someones property you face the consequences including being shot/rioting is what that is

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:17:43 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Unless people take a longer deeper view of civilian unrest, they are running the risk of more of the same in the future.


I'm honestly beginning to believe that many here take it as self evident that the moral issue *is* the deeper view, Tweak - the prime and the ultimate thing in any given debate. It's reflected in all the other forums, too. People routinely pop in to questions about BDSM sex and relationships, for instance, make their moral pronouncement on the OP - which is, of course, routinely ignored after varying levels of anger - then sod off rubbing their hands in satisfaction. It's weird. I've never seen a website quite like this for the phenomenon.

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(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:26:33 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Compare the police response in Ferguson to that in Bunkerville. Funny how if its a bunch of black guys breaking some laws they get the full police state treatment but when it is a bunch of white guys breaking the law they get kid gloves.

and that makes rioting ok?

Does what happened Sunday night make the police response since ok?

Since we don't have all the facts yet, nobody knows.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:26:45 AM   
mnottertail


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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-14/st-louis-county-police-to-be-removed-from-ferguson-clay.html

It has appeared that a moral judgement has been made, and Ferguson police got no morals.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/14/2014 11:29:01 AM >


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:27:50 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

by 2010, it was 29 percent white and 69 percent black. But blacks did not gain political power as their numbers grew.

The mayor and the police chief are white, as are five of the six City Council members. The school board consists of six white members and one Hispanic.

In the context of a 69% black majority, what do you mean by "gain political power"? Do you object to non-whites electing a white mayor and council?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/14/2014 11:28:32 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:28:43 AM   
PeonForHer


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I've just been reading about that. That is some radical response, I have to say.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:29:58 AM   
mnottertail


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One can only let a city of ineptitude auger in only so far, before it morally bankrupts the entire country.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:30:01 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

FR

Now I would have expected the rightist mouth breathers to be hailing the rioters as the new minute men, very proof that the 2nd amendment is essential.

Oh but no. .. I am guessing the right to rise up against armed state oppression only applies to a certain type of person.

So what is it about these people that makes them the wrong type?

They are not rising up against "armed state oppression" they are burning their neighbors businesses. They are not opposing a political system they are flying off the handle before they have all the facts. They don't even know if the officer will be prosecuted.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 11:42:02 AM   
mnottertail


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so they were doing exactly what the heros out there that were looking to gun down federal law enforcement for BLM with that deadbeat that owes us money for 20 some years of grazing on our land were doing, and doing here and there still today?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/14/2014 12:00:49 PM   
cloudboy


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Well, I'm curious to hear your reasons for the riot. If everything were honky-dory in Ferguson, there wouldn't have been a riot.

A minority white police force cannot oppress a majority black population without creating racial tension.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/14/2014 12:02:53 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 140
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